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Thread: CHP, Self-Defense apparently failed Richmonder

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    CHP, Self-Defense apparently failed Richmonder

    The victim, Blaine Tyler, had a valid CHP and was carrying concealed, when he was murdered at the BP station in Westover Hills. His gun was taken from him afterwards.

    Second teen charged in South Richmond killing
    Richmond police Maj. Steve Drew today also confirmed that Tyler, a customer at the gas station, was fatally shot after his gun was taken from him during a struggle. Drew declined to say whether Tyler was shot with his weapon, citing the ongoing investigation.

    Tyler had a concealed-carry permit, and his wife said he carried his gun with him almost everywhere he went for protection, usually in a holster that he would cover up with his clothing.

    Police said Tyler was shot once and died at the store. The medical examiner's office identified the cause of death as a “gunshot wound to chest and abdomen.”

    Sophia Tyler said her husband bought a gun earlier this year. “Something happened to him in the past where he felt defenseless, and he felt like he needed to carry one,” she said.

    Sophia Tyler described her husband as a social man who had no enemies. She said she could not have asked for a better companion.

    “They just took him,” she said.

    Blaine Tyler

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    try 'em, convict 'em and sentence 'em as adults! lock 'em up and toss the keys!
    consecutive life sentences in the darkest hole available, with no chance for parole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    try 'em, convict 'em and sentence 'em as adults! lock 'em up and toss the keys!
    consecutive life sentences in the darkest hole available, with no chance for parole.
    Does anyone do the death penalty in VA? (Non-sarcastic)

    You kill, be killed, IN MY OPINION

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    pretty sure it's lethal injection here, but i don't know if any any minor, tried and convicted as an adult, has had that sentence imposed. it might even be prohibited. i dunno...
    Last edited by mk4; 11-30-2011 at 03:29 PM.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    ...situational awareness.
    +1000
    radar up and hot!

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    The 'teen' was charged with two homicides:

    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...ch-ar-1501296/
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    pretty sure it's lethal injection here, but i don't know if any any minor, tried and convicted as an adult, has had that sentence imposed. it might even be prohibited. i dunno...
    The closest relevant event I can find of this sort is the Mario Murphy murder-for-hire case from 1991.

    In 1993 Murphy was sentenced to death by lethal injection, but he was 19 at the time. At least one of his cohorts, Aaron Turner (age 17), plead guilty and received a life term. The only thing which saves him was that Murphy dealt the death blow and also initiated the conspiracy to murder.

    Search ["aaron turner" murder 1991 sentencing] on Google and look for the April 20, 1993 issue of the Freelance Star.

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    Broken home?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    The 'teen' was charged with two homicides:

    http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...ch-ar-1501296/
    Do you suppose the 'teen' came from a broken home without a good father influence?

    Any why not name the juvenile?

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    thanks, wylde.

    so Murphy was tried and convicted as an adult and got the top penalty. i presume sentence hasn't yet been executed, with all the usual appeals still in progress? in which case, do you know if the scotus has upheld a death penalty sentence through to imposition?
    Last edited by mk4; 11-30-2011 at 04:11 PM.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    try 'em, convict 'em and sentence 'em as adults! lock 'em up and toss the keys!
    consecutive life sentences in the darkest hole available, with no chance for parole.
    I'd rather my tax money go elsewhere than to feed, clothe, and sustain some low-life subhuman maggots. Prefer to see them executed.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    thanks, wylde.

    so Murphy was tried and convicted as an adult and got the top penalty. i presume sentence hasn't yet been executed, with all the usual appeals still in progress? in which case, do you know if the scotus has upheld a death penalty sentence through to imposition?
    In 2005, the Supreme Court decided Roper v. Simmons. They held that executing an individual who was under 18 at the time of the crime is a violation of the 8th and 14th amendments. Cite and details below:

    http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2004/2004_03_633
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    ^^^
    thanks for confirming what i kinda expected.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I'd rather my tax money go elsewhere than to feed, clothe, and sustain some low-life subhuman maggots. Prefer to see them executed.
    understood.
    it's a constitutional issue at the moment, tho. see the cite by thebigsd above.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Like I said, Murphy was 19 at the time the crime was committed. Turner and Hall were juveniles and got life sentences (no parole, I think).

    Murphy appealed claiming status as a Mexican national and that his civil rights had been violated by not being allowed to communicate (or being told he had the "right" to do so) with the Mexican consulate or something. Governor Allen denied the claims and Murphy was executed on September 17, 1997.

    To my knowledge, both Aaron Turner and James Hall are still incarcerated, Turner at the Greensville Correctional Facility in Jarrett and Hall either at St. Brides or Powhatan.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I'd rather my tax money go elsewhere than to feed, clothe, and sustain some low-life subhuman maggots. Prefer to see them executed.
    In a perfect world I'd agree, but considering the number of people who are found to be completely innocent years later, might be good to waste a little of that tax money rather than spend it on Dick Saslaw's new stationary.

    Public Defenders, Corrupt Cops and brainless Commonwealth Attorneys can be a little overwhelming. Throw in a Soccer Mom or two on the Jury and a Judge ready to retire...might have to drink the Hemlock.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Like I said, Murphy was 19 at the time the crime was committed.
    doh!!!
    how'd i miss that?!? too much multitasking today. thanks for pointing out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I'd rather my tax money go elsewhere than to feed, clothe, and sustain some low-life subhuman maggots. Prefer to see them executed.
    From what I've been told, and have read some places (no cite right now and I can't claim that this is 100% accurate) it actually ends up costing significantly more to execute as opposed to give a life sentence. I personally agree with the death penalty, but if it really does cost so much more I do not like that.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    In a perfect world I'd agree, but considering the number of people who are found to be completely innocent years later, might be good to waste a little of that tax money rather than spend it on Dick Saslaw's new stationary.

    Public Defenders, Corrupt Cops and brainless Commonwealth Attorneys can be a little overwhelming. Throw in a Soccer Mom or two on the Jury and a Judge ready to retire...might have to drink the Hemlock.
    I understand all of what you wrote. I was simply echoing my stance on matters of the kind. Our system of justice, though perhaps the best in the world is certainly not perfect because it is operated by human beings. I also despise the thought of executing an innocent man and thank God that is a rarity.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Have not seen anything to indicate that the victim had or did not have his gun with him.

    A permit and CCing does not in any way guarantee your safety. It does afford you the possibility of being able to defend yourself, that you would not otherwise have.

    I had thought that I had seen an earlier report, that the two were arguing outside - can't find that now though.

    Have to wonder if the victim had been OCing and maintaining good situational awareness if this all might have been avoided. I think that is a very real possibility. Don't know near enough to speculate beyond that though.

    I will not rant, condemn and call for blood. The system will handle the disposition of this case; I hope that fair and impartial justice is the outcome. As it stand now, no one wins - we are all the lesser.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheriff View Post
    I'm going out on a limb here, and many of you may not agree.

    I wonder if Tyler's CHP permit actually caused him and the other guy to lose their lives? Tyler pulled his gun and the punk fired first. Moving on, the punk had nothing to lose because he had already shot one person, he shot the second person at the end of the second robbery.

    We're having a lot of robberies by gun in Charlottesville. So far nobody has been shot because they aren't armed and don't fight back.
    It really depends on the situation I think, at least for me. If somebody runs into the bank and I'm there carrying concealed, my first thought will be to be a good witness. I'm not just going to open fire and risk a two sided gun battle or hitting somebody else in the bank because chances are they aren't going to want to hurt anybody, but if they do something to make me think that they where going to start attacking/shooting I would feel no choice but to defend myself. I can't say exactly what would make me feel that I needed to defend myself in a situation like that, and hopefully I won't ever have to find out.

    Also, according to the news report Tyler did not draw his gun, it was taken from his holster during a struggle so it could have been that they where struggling and that is when the murderer realized he had a gun and took it while attempting to rob him. Not knowing exactly what happened makes it impossible to know all we can do is wonder.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Though there's not a lot to go on, my sense, FWIW, is that the BG got inside the victim's perimeter without setting off an alarm.

    To me, that's the problem of being assaulted by, basically, children. IDK if this 16 y.o. looked his age, but most people, particularly parents of (normal) teens don't go into condition yellow when a 15-16 y.o. comes up to them.

    $.02
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Though there's not a lot to go on, my sense, FWIW, is that the BG got inside the victim's perimeter without setting off an alarm.

    To me, that's the problem of being assaulted by, basically, children. IDK if this 16 y.o. looked his age, but most people, particularly parents of (normal) teens don't go into condition yellow when a 15-16 y.o. comes up to them.

    $.02
    At night in a parking lot - wanna bet? Of course there are other indicators, but as I have a sense of this most people I know would been beyond mid-orange and saying "stop right there" while backing off if possible or in a bladed stance.

    My sphere of influence and zone indicators are decided smaller in some situations.

    Condition yellow is a normal level in many circumstances is it not?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    It comes down to what many have already said... LSA.

    Loss of Situational Awareness.
    The article stated that he got his CHP and started carrying within the last year.
    I'll go out on a limb here and take a wild guess here...

    Probably didn't have much training, if any...
    Probably didn't do much "dry fire" training like drawing from a holster (or pocket)...
    Probably didn't have a clue who Massad Ayoob is or ever hear the term "Condition Yellow"...

    Very sad situation all around.
    This should serve as a "wake-up call" to those folks that carry (OC or CC)
    and don't practice SOMETHING on a daily basis...

    "...And that's all I have to say about that..."
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Situational Awareness.
    Yes,
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    In a perfect world I'd agree, but considering the number of people who are found to be completely innocent years later, might be good to waste a little of that tax money rather than spend it on Dick Saslaw's new stationary.

    Public Defenders, Corrupt Cops and brainless Commonwealth Attorneys can be a little overwhelming. Throw in a Soccer Mom or two on the Jury and a Judge ready to retire...might have to drink the Hemlock.
    +1

    The Innocence Project is up to 280 exonerations now.

    http://www.innocenceproject.org/

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