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CHP, Self-Defense apparently failed Richmonder

B. Reddy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Messages
110
Location
Orange County, Virginia
Security cameras in BP?

When the deed (murder) is caught on camera(s) ......

Does anyone know if BP would have security cameras covering more than just the cash register?

Would that footage ever be available so that others might benefit from seeing where/how the wheels came off?

My thoughts go out to the victim's family.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
MY head is constantly on a swivel and thinking about a tactical solution to every potential threat. This is widely known as being in "Condition Yellow" This can be quite tiring at first.
Col. Cooper taught in Principles of Personal Defense that Condition Yellow was relaxed alertness, the normal awareness condition while armed. Perhaps you have confused the mental strain of Condition Orange.
 

Grapeshot

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP

MY head is constantly on a swivel and thinking about a tactical solution to every potential threat. This is widely known as being in "Condition Yellow" This can be quite tiring at first.

Col. Cooper taught in Principles of Personal Defense that Condition Yellow was relaxed alertness, the normal awareness condition while armed. Perhaps you have confused the mental strain of Condition Orange.

Nope, don't think that is a problem that MSC has at all - he taught it, he lives it, it is just business as usual for him.

His (out of context) remark was directed at those new to the practice of everyday/every place tactical awareness who will find it difficult to maintain at first.
 

MSC 45ACP

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Newport News, Virginia, USA
Nope, don't think that is a problem that MSC has at all - he taught it, he lives it, it is just business as usual for him.

His (out of context) remark was directed at those new to the practice of everyday/every place tactical awareness who will find it difficult to maintain at first.

Darnit, GrapeShot. When are you gonna get outta my head? There's barely enough room for the 5 of me in there now! You stated exactly what was on my mind. It can be stressful for some "newbies" to the OC scene. I guess our Northern Neighbor missed the last couple words in the sentence: "...at first." Never, Never, Never get complacent. You bear a huge burden of responsibility every time you decide to "strap on" a pistol for self-defense or the defense of others. Many don't think about it. That is a mistake. It troubles me to think about how many people wander around in Condition White (head in the clouds). Some of them are even armed...

I remember how little sleep I got after the day of antiterrorism training when we learned about Chem-Bio-Radiological (CBR) attacks. Want to read some interesting stuff? This book (among others) was required reading for the course. If you've never had antiterrorism or counterterrorism training, you probably sleep well at night. I haven't slept well since.
Check out The Cobra Event by Richard Preston. http://www.richardpreston.net/books/ce.html
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
'Condition White' as a civil right

My concern for a long time has been with those activists who want to feel safe, no matter what, as though they are entitled to be free from fear. Haas and Goddard come to mind.

If you think about it, what they seem to be advocating is a right to Condition White, a right to be free from worry, oblivious to others around them. When they see another person who carries, it serves to remind them of their attempt to exist in a fantasy world. Being confronted with their delusion makes them upset.

So safety and security is the duty of the state, so they don't have to worry about it. Condition White may be relaxing, but it can also be dangerous.
 

grylnsmn

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
620
Location
Pacific Northwest
Darnit, GrapeShot. When are you gonna get outta my head? There's barely enough room for the 5 of me in there now! You stated exactly what was on my mind. It can be stressful for some "newbies" to the OC scene. I guess our Northern Neighbor missed the last couple words in the sentence: "...at first." Never, Never, Never get complacent. You bear a huge burden of responsibility every time you decide to "strap on" a pistol for self-defense or the defense of others. Many don't think about it. That is a mistake. It troubles me to think about how many people wander around in Condition White (head in the clouds). Some of them are even armed...

I remember how little sleep I got after the day of antiterrorism training when we learned about Chem-Bio-Radiological (CBR) attacks. Want to read some interesting stuff? This book (among others) was required reading for the course. If you've never had antiterrorism or counterterrorism training, you probably sleep well at night. I haven't slept well since.
Check out The Cobra Event by Richard Preston. http://www.richardpreston.net/books/ce.html

I remember when I was in college and my father was a contractor supporting the Homeland Security Institute (a government-sponsored think tank). His job was to help prepare training scenarios for states to test their response plans (post-9/11).

Many a night, we would sit around the dinner table and brainstorm different terrorist attacks and natural disasters, providing a number of scenarios that my father adapted into training simulations.

The scenarios ranged from a dirty bomb in the mixing bowl/LA freeway during rush hour, to a series of "lone gunmen" shooting up malls nationwide on Black Friday, to a massive earthquake hitting an area like Virginia. I now work in computer security, where my job is to be professionally paranoid and think of ways that people can break or exploit systems that are in place.

You better believe I occasionally have sleepless nights because of how I look at such things.
 

Marco

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Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
said:
It seems at least some within VCDL thought OC could be dangerous and therefore, not a good idea.

You went way back.
Luckily for VCDL that member isn't the HHIC!
When I first moved to VA and learned about VCDL I read that article and it keep me from joining VCDL.
I only joined after attending a few meetings and meeting a few VCDL members on OCDO.



http://blog.vcdl.org/index.php?/archives/972-VA-ALERT-VCDL-Open-Carry-Revisited.html



said:
My stance is that I do not care whether you OC, CC or noC. What is important to me is that you support the personal option for others to make that decision, that choice, for themselves.

[Now,] if someone asks me what my recommendation might be on the matter, the answer is "carry" and do so with all of the responsibility that involves.

1+

said:
just because someone owned [or owns] a gun, they weren't automatically [2A] allies, brothers or even worth acknowledging. John Kerry owns guns, Bill Clinton owns guns...even Lori Haas owns guns.

All owning a gun proves is they can afford a gun. It's the mindset that counts.

1+

said:
VCDL started life as a pro CHP, Urban Northern Va. group. Their main goal was to push Concealed Carry.


One can presume that if VCDL's agenda didn't change many of VCDL's most active and out spoken members wouldn't be so active or even members, jmhooc.



I'm going to keep MHO to myself with regards to this incident as we have no clue to as to what transpired other than a citizens was killed.
 

Repeater

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Messages
2,498
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
You went way back.
Luckily for VCDL that member isn't the HHIC!
When I first moved to VA and learned about VCDL I read that article and it keep me from joining VCDL.
I only joined after attending a few meetings and meeting a few VCDL members on OCDO.


One can presume that if VCDL's agenda didn't change many of VCDL's most active and out spoken members wouldn't be so active or even members, jmhooc.



I'm going to keep MHO to myself with regards to this incident as we have no clue to as to what transpired other than a citizens was killed.

To be fair, that commentary in the Defender was in response to the wonderful articles in the previous issue: "A Day with Daddy" and "Open Carry" -- read if you like.
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
It seems at least some within VCDL thought OC could be dangerous and therefore, not a good idea.

Damn bro. This made me sick to my stomach.

WHAT IF YOU WALK INTO A ROBBERY AND THE ROBBERS HAVE AK47s AND BACK UP AT THE DOOR THEY'LL AUTOMATICALLY GET A HEADSHOT ON YOU FROM ACROSS THE ROOM AND YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DRAW YOUR GUN BECAUSE THIS ARTICLE SAYS SO OPEN CARRY IS STUPID
^That sums up what I got from the article lol
 

Marco

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Messages
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Location
Greene County
To be fair, that commentary in the Defender was in response to the wonderful articles in the previous issue: "A Day with Daddy" and "Open Carry" -- read if you like.

Thanks for posting.
I think it was the first post I read about VCDL as one of my wife's co-workers knew I OC'ed and sent it to me.
That was the first I had heard of VCDL.
I considered it a wash and it didn't change my mind about VCDL (check it out first hand).
This author, ( http://www.vcdl.org/defender/vol5no3.pdf ) he'll be considered a tool in my book, until he proves other wise.
I took VCDL for a two year test drive, haven't always agreed but I see the light and think VCDL Pres. see's the same light.
Just because folks are members of a pro 2A organiztion doesn't mean they believe in (protecting/promoting) all aspects, one only needs to look at the NRA as proof. Heck attending a few VCDL meeting will prove this point.

What changed my mind about VCDL was meeting the folks at the NoVA meetings that also post on OCDO.


Way off topic, I apologize.



BOT:
I hope the slain citizen's death isn't used as a tool to push anti 2A non sense.
 
Last edited:

riverrat10k

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Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
1,472
Location
on a rock in the james river
My concern for a long time has been with those activists who want to feel safe, no matter what, as though they are entitled to be free from fear. Haas and Goddard come to mind.

If you think about it, what they seem to be advocating is a right to Condition White, a right to be free from worry, oblivious to others around them. When they see another person who carries, it serves to remind them of their attempt to exist in a fantasy world. Being confronted with their delusion makes them upset.

So safety and security is the duty of the state, so they don't have to worry about it. Condition White may be relaxing, but it can also be dangerous.

Nice post, Repeater. My guess is this sums up the anti's thought process very well.
 

taurusfan

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
307
Location
Richmond, ,
Another gun taken by a bad guy

State Trooper had his gun taken and was shot with it but he had a BUG and won the fight.

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-interstate-95-closed-20111208,0,136753.story

"Police said that the incident happened at 3:24 p.m. this afternoon. Hamer was responding to reports of a man walking on the highway. After the suspect had been placed in the trooper's vehicle, a struggle ensued.

Police said the suspect grabbed the trooper's gun and shot the trooper. The trooper had another gun and returned fire"
 

Repeater

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Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
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Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Judge releases one suspect

Richmond judge frees 1 teen in South Side slaying
One of two teenagers accused in the robbery and killing of a customer inside a gas station in South Richmond will be released from custody but still could be indicted on the same charges, authorities said after a court hearing Monday.

Judge Marilynn C. Goss of Richmond Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court declined Monday to certify to a grand jury several felony charges against Tyee Marquel Hamiel, 16. The judge ruled during a preliminary hearing that prosecutors did not establish sufficient probable cause. Goss did, however, certify charges against the other suspect, who is accused of shooting the victim and of killing another man a few hours later.

"I'm definitely concerned for the Richmond community with him being released," said prosecutor Andy Johnson after the hearing, referring to Hamiel, whose criminal record includes convictions in 2007 of grand larceny and malicious wounding. Johnson added that he respects the judge's decision.

Goss certified to a grand jury more than a dozen charges against the other suspect, Toby Smith Jr., 17, who is accused of robbing Blaine Tyler of his gun and fatally shooting Tyler on Nov. 25 inside the BP gas station at 1 Westover Hills Blvd. The shooting unfolded about 8:15 p.m.

Tyler, 48, had a concealed-carry permit but had been wearing the gun on a holster, plainly visible. According to court documents, Smith grabbed the gun from Tyler during a struggle inside the store and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith.

Prosecutor Jed Patterson said Monday that the same weapon — apparently the one stolen from Tyler and used to kill him in the BP store — also was used to kill Pierre Walter "Pete" Cosby less than seven hours later in an attempted robbery in the Oak Grove neighborhood in South Richmond.

Patterson said a shell casing found at the BP station and shell casings found at the second homicide scene in the 1700 block of Edwards Avenue show that the same gun was used in both cases. Authorities have not recovered the weapon.

Anyone know why Tyler chased Smith? Wonder if the stolen gun will show up at a pawn shop or gun show?
 

taurusfan

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Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
307
Location
Richmond, ,
guilty plea

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/l...cle_cfb7662a-ceda-11e2-b717-0019bb30f31a.html

"Toby Smith Jr. pleaded guilty in Richmond Circuit Court to murdering Blaine Tyler with his own gun in 2011, and to killing Pierre Walter “Pete” Cosby less than seven hours later with the same weapon.

Authorities said Smith encountered Tyler at the BP gas station at 1 Westover Hills Blvd. around 8 p.m. on Nov. 25, 2011.
Tyler, 48, a customer at the gas station, was wearing a gun in a holster, plainly visible, when Smith grabbed the weapon from Tyler during a struggle inside the store and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith, authorities said."
 

ProShooter

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Mar 23, 2008
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www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/l...cle_cfb7662a-ceda-11e2-b717-0019bb30f31a.html

"Toby Smith Jr. pleaded guilty in Richmond Circuit Court to murdering Blaine Tyler with his own gun in 2011, and to killing Pierre Walter “Pete” Cosby less than seven hours later with the same weapon.

Authorities said Smith encountered Tyler at the BP gas station at 1 Westover Hills Blvd. around 8 p.m. on Nov. 25, 2011.
Tyler, 48, a customer at the gas station, was wearing a gun in a holster, plainly visible, when Smith grabbed the weapon from Tyler during a struggle inside the store and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith, authorities said."

Sadly, weapon retention appears to be severely lacking in this example. OC'ers need a high level of WR to keep their gun from being snatched.

and why the hell would you chase after someone who just snatched your gun?
 

taurusfan

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Feb 27, 2007
Messages
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Location
Richmond, ,
Sadly, weapon retention appears to be severely lacking in this example. OC'ers need a high level of WR to keep their gun from being snatched.

and why the hell would you chase after someone who just snatched your gun?


This incident was certainly the open carrier's worst nightmare.

Although I mostly CC it caused me to stop using holsters with passive retention like the plastic Fobus.
 

Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/l...cle_cfb7662a-ceda-11e2-b717-0019bb30f31a.html

"Toby Smith Jr. pleaded guilty in Richmond Circuit Court to murdering Blaine Tyler with his own gun in 2011, and to killing Pierre Walter “Pete” Cosby less than seven hours later with the same weapon.

Authorities said Smith encountered Tyler at the BP gas station at 1 Westover Hills Blvd. around 8 p.m. on Nov. 25, 2011.
Tyler, 48, a customer at the gas station, was wearing a gun in a holster, plainly visible, when Smith grabbed the weapon from Tyler during a struggle inside the store and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith, authorities said."

Smith did not snatch, grab the gun from Tyler's holster. Tyler typically CCd, OCd on a whim that night for the first time. Got into a scuffle with someone he knew, gun fell out onto the floor. Smith picked it up and shot him.

A good retention holster could have prevented this "fall out" from happening.

Let's not rehash this much discussed old story - there are 3 previous threads on this event.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
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Whatcom County
Smith did not snatch, grab the gun from Tyler's holster. Tyler typically CCd, OCd on a whim that night for the first time. Got into a scuffle with someone he knew, gun fell out onto the floor. Smith picked it up and shot him.

A good retention holster could have prevented this "fall out" from happening.

Let's not rehash this much discussed old story - there are 3 previous threads on this event.

Ok on my way to look for other threads, in a debate with a person who is using this and some "incident" in Florida I can't find to explain why OC is bad and not "tactical".
 

peter nap

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Oct 16, 2007
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Valhalla
Ok on my way to look for other threads, in a debate with a person who is using this and some "incident" in Florida I can't find to explain why OC is bad and not "tactical".

Just tell him I said only girly men make that argument...really, why argue with idiots that get their tactical training from comic books?
 
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