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Thread: vehicle carry without a permit

  1. #1
    Dudley do right
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    vehicle carry without a permit

    just wonder if you can carry a handgun in your vehicle without a permit in mich?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley do right View Post
    just wonder if you can carry a handgun in your vehicle without a permit in mich?
    Nope. You must have a CPL.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Nope. You must have a CPL.
    What he said. See MCL 750.227
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    750.227 (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    These the the exemptions. If you do not have a CPL you must transport it as described in part "d" unless you do not have a trunk then you must transport it as described in part "e".
    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2)
    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of
    the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Isn't there an exception that allows you carry in a vehicle on your own property? I know the exception allows for CC on your own property, but does that end if you jump in a truck?
    When you put the gun in the holster, put the ego in the gun safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    Isn't there an exception that allows you carry in a vehicle on your own property? I know the exception allows for CC on your own property, but does that end if you jump in a truck?
    A plain reading of the following exception to .227 would allow you to CC in a vehicle on your property.


    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

  7. #7
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    750.227 (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    750.227 includes this exemption.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  8. #8
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley do right View Post
    so what about locked in a case in the trunk or truck tool box separate from the cab? any exception for that
    Under Michigan law without a valid license from your home state it must be in the trunk in a case designed for the storage of a firearm.

    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2)
    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of
    the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
    Part "d" and "e" cover transportation. If you have a trunk it MUST be in the trunk. So no it could not just be in a tool box. If it was in a case designed for a the storage of a firearm then put into a tool box you would be good.

    EDIT: There is no MICHIGAN LAW that requires the firearm to be locked up. But it may be a good idea if you don't have a trunk.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 12-01-2011 at 10:46 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Under Michigan law without a valid license from your home state it must be in the trunk in a case designed for the storage of a firearm.


    Part "d" and "e" cover transportation. If you have a trunk it MUST be in the trunk. So no it could not just be in a tool box. If it was in a case designed for a the storage of a firearm then put into a tool box you would be good.

    EDIT: There is no MICHIGAN LAW that requires the firearm to be locked up. But it may be a good idea if you don't have a trunk.
    The OP does not have a license/permit to carry and Alabama does not require handgun registration. Therefore, 750.231a does not come into play nor does 750.227 due to the OP being a resident of Alabama. In other words, he can not possess, carry, transport, etc, in Michigan.
    Last edited by SpringerXDacp; 12-01-2011 at 11:55 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    The OP does not have a license/permit to carry and Alabama does not require handgun registration. Therefore, 750.231a does not come into play nor does 750.227 due to the OP being a resident of Alabama. In other words, he can not possess, carry, transport, etc, in Michigan.
    He does not need an Alabama permit to bring a pistol into Michigan, but he does need some type of carry permit. MCL 28.422 requires registration unless you have a permit from your resident state. That no longer holds true due to the “Janet Kukuk act” MCL 28.432 which says:

    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; amendatory act as “Janet Kukuk act”.
    Sec. 12. (1) Section 2 does not apply to any of the following:
    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by
    another state.
    Although looking at the fact he does not have a permit from Alabama he probably does not have one from another state. If he did though he would be allowed to open carry in Michigan and be exempt from 750.234d but would still have to transport as if he had no license.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    EDIT: There is no MICHIGAN LAW that requires the firearm to be locked up. But it may be a good idea if you don't have a trunk.
    There is one....but it would probably just be confusing as it is outside the scope of this conversation but I'm tired, cranky, and have a headache so I'm just picking nits

    28.425k---see section 3.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Although looking at the fact he does not have a permit from Alabama he probably does not have one from another state. If he did though he would be allowed to open carry in Michigan and be exempt from 750.234d but would still have to transport as if he had no license.
    Yup. The OP is going to need either a license to carry, transport, purchase from his home state OR a license to conceal from any state to simply possess a firearm here. Under either of those circumstances the OP would be treated by MI law like a MI resident that did NOT have a concealed license and he would be bound by applicable laws...so having a pistol accessible in the passenger compartment of the vehicle is a no-no.

    In order to conceal carry, including having a the pistol accessible in the passenger compartment of his vehicle, he would need either a concealed license from his HOME state OR be a law enforcement officer; he could then conceal here under the LEOSA, but if that applied he would most likely know about that already.

    xmanhockey7 has done a fine job of citing all the applicable laws so you can see his posts for cites....I'm just offering backup

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  13. #13
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    There is one....but it would probably just be confusing as it is outside the scope of this conversation but I'm tired, cranky, and have a headache so I'm just picking nits

    28.425k---see section 3.

    Bronson
    Thanks for the back up and the reference to 28.425k. I should have known that one but it doesn't help that it doesn't apply to me (yet).
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  14. #14
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley do right View Post
    thanks for the great info. so tell me if i am wrong ,but the way i understand it from what i have read so far as long as the handgun is in the trunk I am ok for transport in a vehicle no permit needed,but only if it is in the trunk out of reach
    Unless you have a permit or are traveling through Michigan under federal law, http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59, you may not bring a handgun to Michigan in your trunk or not. If you get an Alabama permit to carry you would be completely good in Michigan and could have the gun anywhere in your car.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley do right View Post
    thanks for the great info. so tell me if i am wrong ,but the way i understand it from what i have read so far as long as the handgun is in the trunk I am ok for transport in a vehicle no permit needed,but only if it is in the trunk out of reach
    To be legal transport mode, it cannot be loaded. Also, the pistol must be yours, you can only be in possession of handguns registered in your name if you do not have a CPL.
    Last edited by scot623; 12-06-2011 at 09:08 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    To be legal transport mode, it cannot be loaded. Also, the pistol must be yours, you can only be in possession of handguns registered in your name if you do not have a CPL.
    He's a non-resident.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  17. #17
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley do right View Post
    What are lawful purposes?
    Anything that there isn't a law against.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  18. #18
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudley do right View Post
    registered in my name if i don't have a permit. isn't it registered at the time of purchase? also I am going to visit my relative who is a Mich resident. So I am good as long as It is in a locked case in the trunk yes? What are lawful purposes?
    In Michigan, yes. Being from Alabama I believe your only option would be to get a carry permit. Whether it be from Alabama or another state. I'd recommend Alabama.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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