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Thread: FFL needed for black powder pistol?

  1. #1
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    Angry FFL needed for black powder pistol?

    Apologies if this was covered elsewhere - but I am trying to get a Cabela's 1851 Confederate Navy .44 {Pietta} and have run into the restriction that it be sent to a FFL dealer for transferring to me. I know this was not true the last time I bought a BP pistol [3 years ago?] so I called a dealer in North Seattle. He said that it 'sometimes' applies...and that he would do the transfer for $75.00. The pistol is on sale for $130.00.
    Looks like a drive to Lacey if I pursue this.

    Thoughts and help if you would.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Can't speak for WA, but it is not a Federal requirement. Which makes one wonder if a State can truly require someone to use a Federal license.

    I turned down a nice Ruger Old Army from a seller on GunBroker that required me to have it shipped to an FFL. He said his state required it. I'm not sure if that was true or not, but didn't care.
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    FFL for BP guns.

    Thanks for the reply; a little digging on my part found this:

    http://htwww.opencarry.com/forums/sh...-for-us!/page2

    which implies that there are no such regs on the books...I'd like a definite yes/no on this if possible. Seems like a show-stopper when one is not needed.

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    Regular Member massivedesign's Avatar
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    $75 transfer??? Find a better dealer! K&E Arms in Kent is my suggestion. It's owned by an OCDO member who goes by Dementia.
    www.WaGuns.org

    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

  5. #5
    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    $75.00 for a transfer seems a little steep. When I was looking at doing one before I was told $25.00.
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    I do transfers for $20. If anyone is charging $75 that's just crazy.
    Email me at greg@kandearms.com.
    THANKS DAN FOR PIMPIN ME OUT

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Is this for a purchase of a weapon from within the state? I thought an FFL transfer is only required if its ownership is changing across state lines. FFL is a Fed license...

    Also, Bucks Gun Shop does FFL transfers for $25 (he posts here too) and is out of snohomish for those further north.
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  8. #8
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    black powder and FFL

    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    Is this for a purchase of a weapon from within the state? I thought an FFL transfer is only required if its ownership is changing across state lines. FFL is a Fed license...

    Also, Bucks Gun Shop does FFL transfers for $25 (he posts here too) and is out of snohomish for those further north.
    Slapmonkay: this would probably be from inventory out of Cabela's in Lacey...pistol will be on backorder for about a month.


    Thanks to all for the price quotes on FFL transfers...I told the man [who quoted me $75.00] that this was not going to happen on a $130.00 purchase.

    My main issue is: cite the RCW or other law that clearly states that I must go through the FFL process when buying a black powder pistol.

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    There is no federal or WA law that I have ever heard of requiring antique black powder or reproductions of them to go through an FFL. You should be able to recieve it in your regular mail, no need for 4473 either.

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    9.41.010 Defines antique firearms and replicas thereof.

    9.41.090 section 7 gives the exemption for any required paperwork to purchase a replica or antique firearm. Any requirement is that of the business, and they are in violation by doing so.
    Last edited by Trigger Dr; 12-01-2011 at 06:39 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    You do not need an FFL to transfer a true BP weapon. Good enough answer? Even a replica.

    #2: $75 to transfer is crazy. That person is a rip off artist, and doesn't know his gun law either, there is no need for an FFl for normal BP pistol.

    The one kind of BP pistol that they want on record is the kind with the swap out cylinder so you can shoot modern smokeless cartridges. When you put the modern cartridge cylinder in, the pistol now becomes a modern firearm, and that is why you "may" need an FFL transfer. If your pistol does not have the swap out cylinder there is no need for a transfer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    You do not need an FFL to transfer a true BP weapon. Good enough answer? Even a replica.

    #2: $75 to transfer is crazy. That person is a rip off artist, and doesn't know his gun law either, there is no need for an FFl for normal BP pistol.

    The one kind of BP pistol that they want on record is the kind with the swap out cylinder so you can shoot modern smokeless cartridges. When you put the modern cartridge cylinder in, the pistol now becomes a modern firearm, and that is why you "may" need an FFL transfer. If your pistol does not have the swap out cylinder there is no need for a transfer.
    You would only need to go through a FFL dealer if you bought the BP pistol and conversion cylinder together. Each item seperate is not a firearm according to the GCA so no FFL needed. And once the items are in your posession there is no requirement to report it.

    On a side note, I have thought about getting one of those conversion cylinders. Anyone have any experience with then and know how well they work?

  13. #13
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    The conversion cylinder works quite well. The only problem is.... they cost as much as the pistol.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dementia View Post
    I do transfers for $20. If anyone is charging $75 that's just crazy.
    Email me at greg@kandearms.com.
    THANKS DAN FOR PIMPIN ME OUT
    I will be buying a gun very soon from gunbroker because I can't find a damn lightweight champion operator anywhere and I will definitely email you. Thank you for posting this.

  15. #15
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    All they need to do is read RCW 9.41.010(1) and the the definition of a "firearm" in RCW 9.41.010(7) and it should be come very clear that an original or replica BP weapon is not a "firearm" in WA state law (or federal law)

    If a pistol that is classified under RCW 9.41.010(1) as an "antique firearm", it is also not a "firearm", and not subject to an FFL transfer restriction.

    I am surprised that Cabela's store has a problem with this as their BP replica's are listed in their catalog with no mention of an FFL transfer restriction. I always thought that was the reason why the Catalog only had BP and air guns. No FFL required.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    This is from their catalog:

    http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/inclu...oductId=739977

    Item: Pietta Model 1861 Navy .36 Caliber Revolver



    Wanna bet they are going to tell you it has to be shipped to an FFL in Washington?
    This is true - I spent about an hour with their online chat customer service group ''Brandi'' and another...no matter what info I provided they were adamant about the 'law'. Logic and web links did not prevail. More later.

  17. #17
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Interesting, I have their latest "Christmas Catalogue" and they don't have anything like that in the paper catalogue???

    Oh Well, they are wrong...so now, how do we fix that? Obviously, not through the low level people.

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