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Thread: Tell me about this Ketchikan law..

  1. #1
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    Tell me about this Ketchikan law..

    Am I reading/interpreting this wrong?

    ftp://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/pub/municode/9-32.pdf

    9.32.010 Carrying concealed weapons. Any person who carries any firearms or any
    deadly weapon of any kind in a concealed manner within the corporate limits shall be guilty of a
    misdemeanor. (Prior code 13-14(part))

    9.32.020 Carrying loaded firearm. It is unlawful for any person to have in his possession
    or control when in any public place or on any public street within the city, any firearm unless all
    ammunition has been removed from the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine.
    The

  2. #2
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    I can tell you that the law is preempted under Alaska State Law. Is there a reason you are concerned about the unenforceable law?

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    I contacted the city manager, and he said he'll send my inquiry to the city attorney to determine if state statute supersedes the city ordinance. I'm awaiting response. There are no particular reasons why I would necessarily be concerned, but I would hate to be cited for a crime that isn't really a crime.

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    Many states have local laws on the books that are void and unenforceable. Sometimes local tyrants try to enforce them cause problems; however, I would be very surprised if the city attorney tries to pull any stunts. They most likely will see that the preemption law covers it.

    Back when preemption came into force, Anchorage could no longer enforce their city building ban, they whined a little about it. I doubt Ketchikan will try to pull anything.

    Keep us posted.

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    Alaska Statute AS 29.35.145 Preempts and Precludes These Illegal and Unlawful Ketchikan Ordinances.

    The Plain Terms of AS 29.35.145 are found here:
    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/...Section145.htm

    Per The Plain and Unambiguous Terms of This Statute herein Cited, any Municipal Ordinance Inconsistent with, or otherwise more Stringent than, Alaska State Law in Regards to Firearms is: 1. Illegal, 2. Unlawful, and both 3. Invalid and Void.

    Ketchikan can NOT Enforce either Ordinance, as it does meet meet any of The Exceptions Outlined under Alaska Statute AS 29.35.145(b)(1) through AS 29.35.145(b)(4).

    Any Attempt to Abridge Alaska Law can Result in Prosecution under Alaska Statute AS 11.56.850(a)(1), if The Violation of Alaska Statute AS 29.35.145 is Willful. A Violation of This Law is Punishable as for a Class A Misdemeanor.

    Also, Alaska Statute AS 11.76.110(a) Provides Additional Remedies for a Violation of a Persons' Constitutional Rights by, Seemingly Anyone, and which is also Punishable as for The Same Degree of Punishment under The above-Mentioned Paragraph.
    Last edited by aadvark; 12-03-2011 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I contacted the city manager, and he said he'll send my inquiry to the city attorney to determine if state statute supersedes the city ordinance. I'm awaiting response. There are no particular reasons why I would necessarily be concerned, but I would hate to be cited for a crime that isn't really a crime.
    Any updates?

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Am I reading/interpreting this wrong?

    ftp://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/pub/municode/9-32.pdf

    9.32.010 Carrying concealed weapons. Any person who carries any firearms or any
    deadly weapon of any kind in a concealed manner within the corporate limits shall be guilty of a
    misdemeanor. (Prior code 13-14(part))

    9.32.020 Carrying loaded firearm. It is unlawful for any person to have in his possession
    or control when in any public place or on any public street within the city, any firearm unless all
    ammunition has been removed from the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine.
    The
    Learn how to read! This doesn't say anything about ccw. In Ketchikan, as is the same in any other Alaskan city, it is legal for any 21 year old who can legally posses a firearm to conceal said firearm, with the only exemptions being in k-12 schools, government offices, etc. No municipality can create a law that supersedes state or federal law. Minors can, with concent from parent or guardian, carry a handgun unconcealed in the feild for protective purposes

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    So your first post on this website is to insult someone for asking a question a year ago about a law that DOES exist (or did at the time of the question) and make it obvious to us all that YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ a thread.

    Not everyone knows about state preemption, especially City Attorneys, in a lot of states.

    And when you see a local law (he even cited and quoted it), it can raise a good question about making sure.
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-25-2012 at 06:36 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    9.32.010 Discharging firearms. Any person who fires or discharges any pistol, gun, rifle, or any other firearm within the corporate limits shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; provided that such prohibitions shall not be applicable to municipal, state, and federal law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, or to persons firing such in justifiable defense of himself or others or of property or otherwise in accordance with law, or to a person who fires such firearm at authorized firing ranges. Authorized firing ranges shall be a facility approved as to type, location, and rules of operation by the city council. Any person or persons who violates the approved rules for authorized firing ranges shall be guilty of a violation of this section. (Prior code 13-15)... Nowhere in this section is ccw addressed. This section is about discharging firearms in unauthorized location

    9.32.020 Shooting air guns. The shooting of air guns, air powered paint-ball guns or similar recreational devices capable of delivering a projectile by compressed air for a distance of fifty feet or more is prohibited, except as permitted under regulations established by the chief of police. (Ord. 1609, 1, 2008: Ord. 1275 1, 1993: Prior code 13-16). This section addresses firing air guns in unauthorized locations. Not possessing a loaded firearm. I can go to a liquor store with a loaded handgun, unless there is a posted "no firearms" sign. Mmmk Capt. Kirk?
    Last edited by job.md; 10-25-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I contacted the city manager, and he said he'll send my inquiry to the city attorney to determine if state statute supersedes the city ordinance. I'm awaiting response. There are no particular reasons why I would necessarily be concerned, but I would hate to be cited for a crime that isn't really a crime.
    I think you are wise to fully investigate this issue to your satisfaction.

    Keep the Faith!

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by job.md View Post
    9.32.010 Discharging firearms. Any person who fires or discharges any pistol, gun, rifle, or any other firearm within the corporate limits shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; provided that such prohibitions shall not be applicable to municipal, state, and federal law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, or to persons firing such in justifiable defense of himself or others or of property or otherwise in accordance with law, or to a person who fires such firearm at authorized firing ranges. Authorized firing ranges shall be a facility approved as to type, location, and rules of operation by the city council. Any person or persons who violates the approved rules for authorized firing ranges shall be guilty of a violation of this section. (Prior code 13-15)... Nowhere in this section is ccw addressed. This section is about discharging firearms in unauthorized location

    9.32.020 Shooting air guns. The shooting of air guns, air powered paint-ball guns or similar recreational devices capable of delivering a projectile by compressed air for a distance of fifty feet or more is prohibited, except as permitted under regulations established by the chief of police. (Ord. 1609, 1, 2008: Ord. 1275 1, 1993: Prior code 13-16). This section addresses firing air guns in unauthorized locations. Not possessing a loaded firearm. I can go to a liquor store with a loaded handgun, unless there is a posted "no firearms" sign. Mmmk Capt. Kirk?
    So, a YEAR AGO someone cites and quotes a bad law, asks a question about it, and tells us they will talk to the City Attorney about it.

    A YEAR LATER, you find out that the law no longer reads that way, and your instinct is to ASSume that they didn't read it a year ago, and insult them?
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-25-2012 at 07:10 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Personal attack.
    Last edited by John Pierce; 10-25-2012 at 08:37 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by job.md View Post
    Learn how to read! This doesn't say anything about ccw. In Ketchikan, as is the same in any other Alaskan city, it is legal for any 21 year old who can legally posses a firearm to conceal said firearm, with the only exemptions being in k-12 schools, government offices, etc. No municipality can create a law that supersedes state or federal law. Minors can, with concent from parent or guardian, carry a handgun unconcealed in the feild for protective purposes
    Quote Originally Posted by job.md9
    9.32.010 Discharging firearms. Any person who fires or discharges any pistol, gun, rifle, or any other firearm within the corporate limits shall be guilty of a misdemeanor; provided that such prohibitions shall not be applicable to municipal, state, and federal law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties, or to persons firing such in justifiable defense of himself or others or of property or otherwise in accordance with law, or to a person who fires such firearm at authorized firing ranges. Authorized firing ranges shall be a facility approved as to type, location, and rules of operation by the city council. Any person or persons who violates the approved rules for authorized firing ranges shall be guilty of a violation of this section. (Prior code 13-15)... Nowhere in this section is ccw addressed. This section is about discharging firearms in unauthorized location

    9.32.020 Shooting air guns. The shooting of air guns, air powered paint-ball guns or similar recreational devices capable of delivering a projectile by compressed air for a distance of fifty feet or more is prohibited, except as permitted under regulations established by the chief of police. (Ord. 1609, 1, 2008: Ord. 1275 1, 1993: Prior code 13-16). This section addresses firing air guns in unauthorized locations. Not possessing a loaded firearm. I can go to a liquor store with a loaded handgun, unless there is a posted "no firearms" sign. Mmmk Capt. Kirk?
    Manners are the lubricant of civilization.

    The OP posted his question when 9.32.010 and 9.32.020 existed as totally different ordinances than what you posted. They changed earlier this year. The OP is most likely the one who started the ball rolling to get the old ordinances repealed.

    For those interested, please have a look at the the following, in order:

    ftp://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/pub/agenda/120301p.pdf

    http://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/mayo.../120301min.pdf

    ftp://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/pub/agenda/120315e.pdf

    http://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/mayo.../120315min.pdf

    Video of meeting. This link takes you directly to the part of meeting discussing the firearm ordinances. The motion passes:
    http://ketchikan.granicus.com/MediaP...2&meta_id=3531

    The new ordinances:
    http://www.city.ketchikan.ak.us/depa...ments/9-32.pdf

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