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Thread: Ok, We sent my wifes app in today.

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    Ok, We sent my wifes app in today.

    Well I decided to push the envelope a little. I wanted to get the jump on all of the people that are going to send in their apps on Dec.1. I am hoping that my wifes app will hit the DOJ desk tomorrow morning and will be processed before the hoard of apps land on top. Either I am a hero or a zero. The way I see it she will either get it in a couple of days or sometime in February.

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    Sit down... got some bad news, "zero". There's only about 30,000 unissued license applications ahead of her, they're doing about 600 per day, and people who mailed on Nov. 1st are still waiting.... lots of 'em. Plan on maybe as late as February. Late January for sure... unless the legislature authorizes funds to substantially increase the workforce & equipment as DOJ has requested. Apparantly they can't go any faster with what they have now, because their pace has not changed much since the 1st week, and today marks the beginning of week # 5. There's no way in hell they'll make that 21 day deadline that starts for tomorrow's applications, unless they set half of November's unfinished to the side. Doubtful they'll make the 45 day deadline for everyone who mailed in November anyway.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 11-30-2011 at 09:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    Sit down... got some bad news, "zero". There's only about 30,000 unissued license applications ahead of her, they're doing about 600 per day, and people who mailed on Nov. 1st are still waiting.... lots of 'em. Plan on maybe as late as February. Late January for sure... unless the legislature authorizes funds to substantially increase the workforce & equipment as DOJ has requested. Apparantly they can't go any faster with what they have now, because their pace has not changed much since the 1st week, and today marks the beginning of week # 5. There's no way in hell they'll make that 21 day deadline that starts for tomorrow's applications, unless they set half of November's unfinished to the side. Doubtful they'll make the 45 day deadline for everyone who mailed in November anyway.
    I am guessing that they know that they will not make the 45 day so they will start a new pile for the 21 day and assign some people just for that pile and attempt to make the 21 day dead line. Now my wifes app will be the first one on the desk and there ya have it. I am not holding my breath that this will work but it still beats waiting until Feb. to apply. I guess that I will just have to be security for her until it arrives. Ya know, with all of the hostility on the board I am not sure I should tell if she does get it next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc.38 View Post
    I am guessing that they know that they will not make the 45 day so they will start a new pile for the 21 day and assign some people just for that pile and attempt to make the 21 day dead line. Now my wifes app will be the first one on the desk and there ya have it. I am not holding my breath that this will work but it still beats waiting until Feb. to apply. I guess that I will just have to be security for her until it arrives. Ya know, with all of the hostility on the board I am not sure I should tell if she does get it next week.
    They've got a total of ONE full time employee and 10 temps working on processing right now. I don't think they'd start jumping over existing "piles", but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I even predicted as much myself not too long ago. But she still must go through the background check bottleneck, and that's weeks at best right now, even if she gets the benefit of the shorter 21 days clock personal shift.

    For more info on current situation, read this. http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...posted-25.html Posts 368, 394, 395 are very informative.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 11-30-2011 at 10:38 PM.

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    I hope the mail is a little slow for your wifes sake. If the application arrives on Dec 1 it is still in the 45 day maximim. If it arrives on Dec 2nd they have 21 days.

    "For completed applications received between November 1 and December 1, 2011, DOJ shall issue or deny as soon as practicable and no longer than 45 days after receiving an application. Wis. Act 35, § 100(2).
    After December 1, 2011, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license application within 21 days of receiving the completed application. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(9)(b)."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetiman View Post
    I hope the mail is a little slow for your wifes sake. If the application arrives on Dec 1 it is still in the 45 day maximim. If it arrives on Dec 2nd they have 21 days.

    "For completed applications received between November 1 and December 1, 2011, DOJ shall issue or deny as soon as practicable and no longer than 45 days after receiving an application. Wis. Act 35, § 100(2).
    After December 1, 2011, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license application within 21 days of receiving the completed application. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(9)(b)."

    NOOOOOOOOO Tell me it ain't sooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Lightbulb Now I Understand....

    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    They've got a total of ONE full time employee and 10 temps working on processing right now. I don't think they'd start jumping over existing "piles", but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. I even predicted as much myself not too long ago. But she still must go through the background check bottleneck, and that's weeks at best right now, even if she gets the benefit of the shorter 21 days clock personal shift.

    For more info on current situation, read this. http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...posted-25.html Posts 368, 394, 395 are very informative.
    From Post #368:
    Then if your name pops up nothing you go into processing is what it is called, your license is approved and then print then mailed.

    If your name pops up another with similar name with problems they have to send you to research.. this is not just Wisconsin Research it is US wide..all states that can report. They have to wait to hear back.
    This explains why I got mine so fast; I'll guarantee you there isn't anybody else in the country with my a name similar to mine....
    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    From Post #368: This explains why I got mine so fast; I'll guarantee you there isn't anybody else in the country with my a name similar to mine....
    I "googled" my name, and what comes back is mostly white page phone book listings from all over the U.S. I had 23 others in the entire U.S.A. with same first & last pop-up, and only ONE had the same middle name. He's in Seattle, and is an OB/GYN. One of the others with differant middle name, is a billionaire listed in Forbes in the top 100 wealthiest men in America. Now there's an Identity I'd like to "assume". All I have to do is change my middle name from Charles to James, and I'm him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetiman View Post
    I hope the mail is a little slow for your wifes sake. If the application arrives on Dec 1 it is still in the 45 day maximim. If it arrives on Dec 2nd they have 21 days.

    "For completed applications received between November 1 and December 1, 2011, DOJ shall issue or deny as soon as practicable and no longer than 45 days after receiving an application. Wis. Act 35, § 100(2).
    After December 1, 2011, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license application within 21 days of receiving the completed application. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(9)(b)."
    I tried to find the actual wording in both the Act 35 final official document itself, and DOJ's administrative rules. The Statute itself only says 21 days... there's no mention of the 45 days that we all know is in effect the 1st month. Not in administrative rules neither.

    I did find the following in SSA2 :

    "Within 21 days of receiving the application, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license application. In addition, beginning on the day after publication of the legislation and ending on the first day of the fifth month after that day, DOJ must, as soon as practicable and without delay, but no longer than 45 days after receiving a complete application, either issue the license and promptly send the licensee the license document by 1st class mail or deny the application, as described above. "

    Which does indicate the 21 day wait becomes effective on Dec. 2nd... or does it? First day of the 5th month is Dec. 1st., that's certain. It says "ending on the 1st day of the 5th month". But it's legalese and a differant language. Does "ending on" mean it's over when that day in question begins, or when it ends? What does "on" mean in legalese?They began accepting on Nov. 1st, and Dec. 1st would be 31 days. The legislature talked about DOJ being given extra time for the 1st 30 days only... not 31.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 12-01-2011 at 04:27 PM.

  10. #10
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    2011 Act 35 Section 100. Nonstatutory provisions.

    (2) Notwithstanding section 175.60 (9) (b) of the statutes,
    as created by this act, beginning on the effective date
    of this subsection and ending on the first day of the 5th
    month beginning after the effective date of this subsection,
    the department of justice shall, as soon as practica
    ble and without delay, but no longer than 45 days, after
    receiving a complete application under section 175.60
    (7) of the statutes, as created by this act, for a license to
    carry a concealed weapon, do one of the following:
    (a) Issue the license and promptly send the licensee
    his or her license document by 1st class mail.
    (b) Deny the application, but only if section 175.60
    (3) (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) of the statutes, as created
    by this act, applies to the applicant. If the department
    denies the application, the department shall inform the
    applicant in writing, stating the reason and factual basis
    for the denial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    (2) Notwithstanding section 175.60 (9) (b) of the statutes,
    as created by this act, beginning on the effective date
    of this subsection and ending on the first day of the 5th
    month beginning after the effective date of this subsection,
    the department of justice shall, as soon as practica
    ble and without delay, but no longer than 45 days, after
    receiving a complete application under section 175.60
    (7) of the statutes, as created by this act, for a license to
    carry a concealed weapon, do one of the following:
    (a) Issue the license and promptly send the licensee
    his or her license document by 1st class mail.
    (b) Deny the application, but only if section 175.60
    (3) (a), (b), (c), (d), (e), (f), or (g) of the statutes, as created
    by this act, applies to the applicant. If the department
    denies the application, the department shall inform the
    applicant in writing, stating the reason and factual basis
    for the denial.
    That's what I was looking for, but the question still remains... does "ending on" mean the beginning of the day, or at the end of that day? My app was not received on Dec. 1st (Nov. 2nd for me), so I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just saying there's two differant ways of looking at the way that's worded. And being that it's legalese, it's probably not what we think it is. My deadline is up on Dec.16th, but it could mean a 24 day differance for some. Not that it's gonna matter, they're unlikely to make either at the current pace.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Yetiman's Avatar
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    My quote was taken from the FAQ on the DOJ web site.
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/..._questions.pdf



    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    I tried to find the actual wording in both the Act 35 final official document itself, and DOJ's administrative rules. The Statute itself only says 21 days... there's no mention of the 45 days that we all know is in effect the 1st month. Not in administrative rules neither.

    I did find the following in SSA2 :

    "Within 21 days of receiving the application, DOJ must either issue a license or deny the license application. In addition, beginning on the day after publication of the legislation and ending on the first day of the fifth month after that day, DOJ must, as soon as practicable and without delay, but no longer than 45 days after receiving a complete application, either issue the license and promptly send the licensee the license document by 1st class mail or deny the application, as described above. "

    Which does indicate the 21 day wait becomes effective on Dec. 2nd... or does it? First day of the 5th month is Dec. 1st., that's certain. It says "ending on the 1st day of the 5th month". But it's legalese and a differant language. Does "ending on" mean it's over when that day in question begins, or when it ends? What does "on" mean in legalese?They began accepting on Nov. 1st, and Dec. 1st would be 31 days. The legislature talked about DOJ being given extra time for the 1st 30 days only... not 31.

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    Here is some information from the DOJ: http://www.wrn.com/2011/12/doj-has-a...ncealed-carry/

    Between 30 and 35 people on the job, 17,000 licenses processed and more thant 50,000 received, that leaves 33,000 licenses to be processed. Of course, some are partially processed at this time.

    IMHO the Attorney General will have to request an extension on the processing turnaround time, and it will be granted.
    Wis. CCL #5x Springfield XDM 3.8 Compact .40 S&W, Utah CFP

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    Quote Originally Posted by E6chevron View Post
    Here is some information from the DOJ: http://www.wrn.com/2011/12/doj-has-a...ncealed-carry/

    Between 30 and 35 people on the job, 17,000 licenses processed and more thant 50,000 received, that leaves 33,000 licenses to be processed. Of course, some are partially processed at this time.

    IMHO the Attorney General will have to request an extension on the processing turnaround time, and it will be granted.
    If they concentrated on getting them out in order received, there'd be less people past the deadline when it does come (only about two weeks for the 1st deadline). It does not make sense to be processing later arrivals (by as much as 8-10 days, whose deadline is 8-10 days later too) when there's a deadline to be met... unless they're so bottlenecked & backed up, that it really doesn't matter. Maybe they WANT to reach 45 days on some, just so they can say "look, we're this far behind, we need more time, more help, more money". ??? (NOT trying to start any "conspiracy theories", but that's how govt does things sometimes. They need an example to prove their point, so they create one).

    There's a whole bunch of people posting on several threads such as this (which just like polls, is just a sampling), who mailed on the 1st & 2nd, who have received nothing but a cancelled check weeks ago. OTOH, there's another rather large group (and growing) who didn't even mail until the 7th or 8th day, who are just now starting to receive their CWLs. That shows very little concern of the deadlines by DOJ.... or perhaps they're so messed up, they don't even know when apps were received. If they really were concerned, and kept track, they'd divert resources away from those working on issuing the later arrivals, and concentrate them on issuing the earlier ones. Whatever the problem or holdup is with the first to be received, get it solved by putting more of your workforce on it, and move on.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 12-03-2011 at 11:22 AM.

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    In the event anyone doesn't comprehend what I said in my previous post, about issuing out of sequence of date received screwing up an attempt to meet a deadline, I have an analogy. (if my long posts bore you, then skip this one too ).

    Lets say you have 3 bills to pay each month. One is due on the 5th, one the 15th, the third the 25th. For simplicity, let's say each is $100. Each has an equal $10 late fine... all consequences for being late are equal. It's the 1st of the month, and you only have $200. You don't want to be late on any, so which do you pay? The 1st & 2nd due, or the 2nd & 3rd... making you late on the 1st in line, because your next pay check is due on the 10th. So if you pay the 1st & 2nd now, you can pay the 3rd on time too, and not be late on any.

    OTOH, if there is no penalty, or you can make a claim "I can't pay them all", and the 1st in line (or all 3) will give you an extra 30 day grace period, then you can just pay what's on top of the pile, with no concern for due dates or late fines. By issuing out of sequence of dates received, that's exactly what DOJ is doing. They know they can't meet all the deadlines, they know a court will likely give them more time if they ask for it... so they don't try as hard as they should to not go over the deadline on anybody. Only my opinion, of course, but the evidence is plain that they are issuing out of sequence of dates received. This cannot be denied.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 12-03-2011 at 12:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    .... the evidence is plain that they are issuing out of sequence of dates received. This cannot be denied.
    According to the link that you supplied in post #4 of this thread, the background check is what is scrambling the sequence of applications received versus applications issued. From Post #368:
    Then if your name pops up nothing you go into processing is what it is called, your license is approved and then print then mailed.

    If your name pops up another with similar name with problems they have to send you to research.. this is not just Wisconsin Research it is US wide..all states that can report. They have to wait to hear back.


    So if your name is "Slobadynicki Balihoonian", you will probably be processed a lot faster than, say, "John Smith". It's nobody's fault and not a grand scheme, it's just that it takes longer to check out some names than others, especially if the states you have to cross-check with are slow to respond.
    Dave
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    Dave, still doesn't explain why when you puchase a gun initial approval is done in minutes, for the license it appears to be taking weeks after check cashed . Isn't the bar that must be crossed is "legally able to buy a firearm?" One would think that DOJ would have dedicated staff for license approvals. I still don't see where there are skills involved and process is any different than buying a firearm through any FFL.
    Last edited by Flipper; 12-03-2011 at 01:31 PM.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flipper View Post
    Dave, still doesn't explain why when you puchase a gun initial approval is done in minutes, for the license it appears to be taking weeks after check cashed . Isn't the bar that must be crossed is "legally able to buy a firearm?" One would think that DOJ would have dedicated staff for license approvals. I still don't see where there are skills involved and process is any different than buying a firearm through any FFL.
    The INITIAL approval is done in minutes from the DOJ on the handgun hotline but, they will put a hold in it until the check comes back clear if it takes too long. Before that happened pretty quick when they weren't processing CCL's but I have heard its taking a while now and a bunch of people have been delayed.

    The NICS check for a long gun is different and that dosen't apply here.

    Edited to add:
    Also I would assume that pistol purchases take priority over CCL checks as they should and I also assume the Doj's "handgun hotline" only has a limited capacity so the upswing in pistol sales is slowing things down further.

    The solution to all these problems is just go to constitutional carry, eliminate the "handgun hotline" by using NIC's only and get rid of the waiting period that is no longer required. Seems pretty stupid to me that NIC's was set up for this very reason but we continue to use our system.

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    Last edited by Jason in WI; 12-03-2011 at 02:01 PM.

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    i think the worst part is the check clearing .. then waiting .. they should have a limit on days after presenting the check

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    Quote Originally Posted by touchdowntodd View Post
    i think the worst part is the check clearing .. then waiting .. they should have a limit on days after presenting the check
    Especially if that indicates application i's dotted and t's crossed.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    According to the link that you supplied in post #4 of this thread, the background check is what is scrambling the sequence of applications received versus applications issued. From Post #368: So if your name is "Slobadynicki Balihoonian", you will probably be processed a lot faster than, say, "John Smith". It's nobody's fault and not a grand scheme, it's just that it takes longer to check out some names than others, especially if the states you have to cross-check with are slow to respond.
    Never said anything about it being an intentional "scheme" from the beginning. Incompetance, nonchalantness on order received, disorganization... yes, possibilities. If everyone waiting on a "delayed" background check had the name "John Smith", then that'd explain the long wait for them. And if everyone who has mailed in days after others and has gotten issued has the name "Slobadynicki Balihoonian", then there's no questions as to the holdup for the John Smiths. If your name is common like John Smith, then you probably get delayed every time you go through the system, so you can expect it here too. But if you have an uncommon name, never got delayed before but are still waiting, what's your explanation for that? Those are the people I'm talking about. It again goes back to their stated policy of "processing in order received". If they're not, then they should just say they're not. "We tried, but it didn't work". That's all they'd have to say. Otherwise they're misleading people into thinking of what the problem could be in the delay? Lost, etc?

    Just for kicks, I did a "google" on a buddy who mailed on the 1st, got issued on the 9th. There's 63 people with his exact same first & last name just in Wisconsin, 7 have same middle, and over 700 in the U.S.A. with same first & last. I mailed on the 1st, there's 3 in Wisconsin with my first/last name, 23 in the entire U.S.A. , and only one with same middle. So that explanation of "same name delays" won't fly for everybody (some yes, no argument), so what's the delay for the "Slobadynicki Balihoonians" ? I'm not claiming it's intentional, conspiracy, grand scheme... none of that tinfoil hat crap. The only other explanation is disorganization or incompetance on the part of DOJ's processing system. And I am baffled as to why you, and some DOJ "apologists", refuse to admit they've got it all screwed up when it's right there under your nose <sigh>.

    (I used my buddy & I as my examples simply because I could... I know the particulars.... full names, even DOBs. I can't research everybody because I don't know their names. I used what I could, but I think it's a good enough sampling).


    btw... that link I supplied in post 4, to post 368 on that other forum, was to an explanation from a DOJ employee as to what the holdup is on issuing permits. Did you expect him to say "we screwed the pooch"?
    Last edited by safcrkr; 12-03-2011 at 03:39 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    .... The only other explanation is disorganization or incompetance on the part of DOJ's processing system. And I am baffled as to why you, and some DOJ "apologists", refuse to admit they've got it all screwed up when it's right there under your nose <sigh>.
    Well, for one thing it isn't under my nose because I got my permit in a timely fashion and so have more than 17,000 other Wisconsin residents. For another thing, just because the licenses aren't being issued in the order you think they should be doesn't mean the system is "all screwed up". Without inside knowledge of what is going on at DOJ this is just mental masturbation.

    Quote Originally Posted by safcrkr View Post
    btw... that link I supplied in post 4, to post 368, was to an explanation from a DOJ employee as to what the holdup is on issuing permits. Did you expect him to say "we screwed the pooch"?
    No, I expect you to take the man at his word until proven otherwise. Remember "Innocent until proven guilty"? I'm sorry that you haven't gotten your license yet; you sound like a nice guy who is very frustrated. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it but wait....
    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    Well, for one thing it isn't under my nose because I got my permit in a timely fashion and so have more than 17,000 other Wisconsin residents. For another thing, just because the licenses aren't being issued in the order you think they should be doesn't mean the system is "all screwed up". Without inside knowledge of what is going on at DOJ this is just mental masturbation.

    No, I expect you to take the man at his word until proven otherwise. Remember "Innocent until proven guilty"? I'm sorry that you haven't gotten your license yet; you sound like a nice guy who is very frustrated. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it but wait....
    17,000 got them, 33,000 are still waiting. What's the point you're trying to make? The licenses that have been issued should be issued in "roughly" the order received, or reasonably close. Nobody expects perfection. A day or two doesn't matter. A week or two, or more, does. There's only two plausible explanations why apps received late in the 2nd week should be processed and issued before apps received the 2nd or 3rd day. One is the background check same-name delays. I've already made my case why that cannot apply to everyone, and conceded it does apply to some. But for those who don't have that delay apply to them, what's left? Disorganization, etc., is the only non-tinfoil-hat theory left.

    Whether I have mine, or you have yours, or John Smith or Slobadynicki Balihoonian have theirs, is immaterial. Maybe I'm just more aware of the situation because mine came late, and because yours came early, you're not wondering as much as to what's up. ??? Even if I had mine since weeks ago, I still could not ignore the evidence, and still would be "less than happy" as to why others are being passed by.

    It would be under your nose if you cared to look down there.

    Anyway... I enjoy discussing this in an adult fashion with someone who does not resort to name-calling, etc.


    btw... I'm old enough to know that taking any govt employee at "his word" is a foolish endeavor.
    Last edited by safcrkr; 12-03-2011 at 05:10 PM.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    1,643

    Lightbulb It's Quicker To Get A U.S. Passport!

    Mailed mine the morning of the 1st (November), check posted to my account on the 10th. Nothing since...but I did get a questionnaire to be a Jury member the other day. So...someone is watching me.

    My passport only took a few weeks and I would think the passport background checks are at least as intensive and thorough as a concealed weapons background check.

    As to how many people have my name...lots. A quick check on the Internet shows hundreds with my name and different races (I am fairly certain how that happened).

    We know that our Wisconsin drivers license has our S.S.N. attached so it isn't a matter of not providing the S.S.N. with the application.

    As for buying guns my background check has always been done in less than two minutes while I filled out the paperwork. I have purchased quite a few this year alone and never had a single "wait" for my background check. Never been denied, never had to wait in my entire life. I have had secret clearances several times in my life including this year and the last few years and even those background checks took less than three days.

    Why some are not getting their licenses as quickly as others is baffling and frustrating but there isn't a thing that can be done to "hurry them up".

    My guess is my paperwork got stuck to the bottom of a Krispy Creme doughnut box and went out with the garbage.

    Besides, I have to have SOMETHING to hope for for Christmas!
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Wi
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kc.38 View Post
    Well I decided to push the envelope a little. I wanted to get the jump on all of the people that are going to send in their apps on Dec.1. I am hoping that my wifes app will hit the DOJ desk tomorrow morning and will be processed before the hoard of apps land on top. Either I am a hero or a zero. The way I see it she will either get it in a couple of days or sometime in February.
    Well it worked. It took the full 21 days to have in her hand but she got it.
    I still don't know if I am a hero or a zero but this is it.
    Mailed Nov 30
    Received Dec.22
    Issued Dec.20
    #299XX

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