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Thread: GRNC president Paul Valone offers congratulations...and a warning

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    GRNC president Paul Valone offers congratulations...and a warning

    North Carolina Gun Rights Supporters:

    Today you should celebrate a great victory. Thanks to your efforts, the omnibus gun bill, HB 650 -- http://grnc.org/what-hb-650-means-to-you, engineered by Grass Roots North Carolina becomes effective today, and with it you may now enjoy the benefits of Castle Doctrine, concealed carry in parks and game lands, legal protection for collectors of fully automatic firearms, improved concealed handgun permit issuance, and far more.

    Now for the bad news: Republicans in the legislature continue to stonewall on giving you restaurant carry, municipalities are doing their best to willfully subvert concealed carry in parks, and worst of all ...

    Your home state is being targeted by Obama leftists!

    That's right: Obama has you in his sights. Not just by visiting the state repeatedly (on your dime, of course), not just by staging the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte ... no, you can expect to see the same ACORN-inspired leftists "occupying" the state you call home!

    "Parties agree: N.C. is key to 2012," said a recent headline. "It's hard to put together a scenario in which a Republican [presidential candidate] gets 270 electoral votes without North Carolina," said one GOP strategist. Will you let the loony left turn a conservative state "blue" once again?

    And it gets worse: Not only are Obama's people setting you up for a second term, in which they will unveil the full anti-gun agenda they have camouflaged until now, but if 2008 is any representation ...

    Obama's "coat-tail" effect could undo
    everything you have accomplished in the state!

    Remember the last time? Avowed anti-gunner Joe Hackney (GRNC 0-star) as Speaker of the House; ACLU director Deborah Ross (0-star) as chair of the powerful Judiciary Committee, where all gun bills are heard; Hugh Holliman (0-star) as House Majority Leader.

    Remember how Holliman & Co. killed your Castle Doctrine bill? (Before GRNC removed him from office, of course.) Remember the narrowly-defeated bills to register gun owners with the State Bureau of Investigation, or to prosecute gun owners for having the audacity to have guns stolen from them?


    That's our future unless we act ASAP!

    GRNC is getting bigger, better and stronger. We've revamped our alerts and our web site. We're working more gun shows - and activating more gun owners - across the state than ever before.

    In 2010, GRNC's "Remember in November" project put essential information on which candidates support your rights into the hands of 110,000 gun voters, including 75,000 mailed directly to them. The GRNC Political Victory Fund mailed tens of thousands of postcard election alerts and did radio spots in 14 state races and one congressional race.

    But we need more!

    To repel the left, to preserve and extend our gains, and to rout Obama in a critical state ...

    I want YOU to help GRNC, in the 2012 election, to get out 150,000 voter guides; to mail 100,000 to gun owning voters, and to do postcard election alerts and radio spots in at least 20 races where we can make a difference.

    Yes, I know you're short of cash. The economy is lousy; maybe - like me - you're earning a fraction of what you used to; maybe you don't even have a job.

    But understand this: What's at stake is the future - the future for you, for your kids, and for your country. So I'm asking you to:

    Contribute to Grass Roots North Carolina! -- http://grnc.org/join-grnc/contribute

    Even if you are already a member, and even if you have already done so, we need your help and we need it now.

    If you know me, you know I don't make a habit of dunning you for money. And if you know GRNC, you know we promise to put your money to more efficient, effective use than any other gun rights organization; GRNC promises you "Max" bang for your legislative buck.

    So please help GRNC defend the gains we've made and further our inroads toward restoring your constitutionally-protected freedoms.

    Armatissimi e liberissimi,

    F. Paul Valone
    President, Grass Roots North Carolina

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    actually blatant scare rethoric rolled into sales pitch asking for money...

    I know i am about to commit sacrilege and step onto a gaggle of toes but...come on...do we really need the blatant leftist (or is it the right this weekend) causing the sky to fall scare tactic rethoric rolling through once again?

    bottom line, for whatever reason, the group needs money to continue doing the outstanding work they have contributed in the past.

    SO STATE THAT NEED w/o the olde rehashed bs...if i can contribute i will. if for some reason i can not i will contribute my time to the cause. rethoric notwithstanding...

    wabbit

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    I know i am about to commit sacrilege and step onto a gaggle of toes but...come on...do we really need the blatant leftist (or is it the right this weekend) causing the sky to fall scare tactic rethoric rolling through once again?

    bottom line, for whatever reason, the group needs money to continue doing the outstanding work they have contributed in the past.

    SO STATE THAT NEED w/o the olde rehashed bs...if i can contribute i will. if for some reason i can not i will contribute my time to the cause. rethoric notwithstanding...

    wabbit
    I agree. I was thinking about getting involved but the rhetoric kind of turns me off. I think both parties have infringed upon our rights.

    Think Republicans are the protectors of our gun rights....? Just google republicans and gun control...both parties are equally dangerous IMO. Here's a small sample of what you will find from such a search. This was taken from: http://reformed-theology.org/html/is...e_liberals.htm:



    Don’t Blame Liberals for Gun Control

    by Richard Poe


    NEWSMAX.COM - Anti-gun crusaders seem worried about the advent of a Republican administration. Heaven knows why. Republicans, in recent years, have managed to do nearly as much damage to the Second Amendment as Democrats.

    In 1969, journalist William Safire asked Richard Nixon what he thought about gun control. "Guns are an abomination," Nixon replied. According to Safire, Nixon went on to confess that, "Free from fear of gun owners' retaliation at the polls, he favored making handguns illegal and requiring licenses for hunting rifles."

    It was President George Bush, Sr. who banned the import of "assault weapons" in 1989, and promoted the view that Americans should only be allowed to own weapons suitable for "sporting purposes."

    It was Governor Ronald Reagan of California who signed the Mulford Act in 1967, "prohibiting the carrying of firearms on one's person or in a vehicle, in any public place or on any public street." The law was aimed at stopping the Black Panthers, but affected all gun owners.

    Twenty-four years later, Reagan was still pushing gun control. "I support the Brady Bill," he said in a March 28, 1991 speech, "and I urge the Congress to enact it without further delay."

    One of the most aggressive gun control advocates today is Republican mayor Rudolph Giuliani of New York City, whose administration sued 26 gun manufacturers in June 2000, and whose police commissioner, Howard Safir, proposed a nationwide plan for gun licensing, complete with yearly "safety" inspections.

    Another Republican, New York State Governor George Pataki, on August 10, 2000, signed into law what The New York Times called "the nation’s strictest gun controls," a radical program mandating trigger locks, background checks at gun shows and "ballistic fingerprinting" of guns sold in the state. It also raised the legal age to buy a handgun to 21 and banned "assault weapons," the sale or possession of which would now be punishable by seven years in prison.

    Gun control crusaders argue that the Republicans are simply yielding to grassroots pressure, to gain political advantage. But polls show little evidence of such pressure.

    A Gallup/CNN/USA Today survey taken in June 1999 – only two months after the Littleton massacre – showed that the number of Americans who favored stricter gun laws had declined by 20 percent since 1990.

    Public support for gun control has dwindled even further since then. An Associated Press poll released on the one-year anniversary of the Littleton shootings shows that Americans favor strict enforcement of existing laws over new gun laws – the exact position of the National Rifle Association (NRA) – by 42 to 33 percent.

    That same month, a survey by the Pew Research Center showed that only 6 percent of Americans believed that tougher gun laws would prevent future school shootings.

    Meanwhile, a Tarrance Group poll has shown that only 5 percent of Americans want gunmakers and gun dealers held responsible for misuse of firearms.

    Clearly, the pressure for gun control is not coming from the grassroots. It comes from those layers of society that the left calls the "ruling classes" – academics, Hollywood stars, Washington insiders and multibillion-dollar media conglomerates.

    The latter are particularly influential in pushing anti-gun propaganda. A study by the Media Research Center released in January 2000 showed that television news stories calling for stricter gun laws outnumbered those opposing such laws by a ratio of 10 to 1.

    The blame for this media bias is traditionally assigned to "liberal journalists." And, indeed, most journalists do hold left-of-center views. A 1996 survey of working journalists by the Roper Center and the Freedom Forum showed that 89 percent had voted for Bill Clinton in 1992. Only 4 percent identified themselves as Republicans and only 2 percent as conservatives.

    Yet, their "liberal" views probably have less impact on the media’s anti-gun bias than most people assume. Rank-and-file reporters have little power to influence the political spin even of their own stories.

    When I worked at the New York Post in the mid-1980s, I found the newsroom filled with liberals. They grumbled constantly about the paper’s conservative slant. But they went along with it, because it was company policy.

    Liberal news organizations are no different. Political bias comes from the top. Rank-and-file reporters simply do what they are told.

    Those of us who cherish our Second Amendment rights are keeping our fingers crossed about George W. Bush. But the monolithic commitment America’s "ruling classes" have shown toward gun control makes one wonder whether even a president is free to buck the current.

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    You're bashing the wrong people.

    I hear what you're trying to complain about -- BUT the GRNC has never been an organization to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) for the purposes of fundraising.

    Look closely at the message again. We got HB650. Yay! However, it's true that our elected representatives on BOTH sides of the Republican/Democrat line are NOT doing enough and that they continue to try to chip away at or prevent us from exercising our 2nd Amendment rights.

    If you want to see REAL fear-mongering, scare tactics and other FUD distribution for the purposes of fundraising -- look at Dudley Brown and the National Association for Gun Rights. That guy comes off as a real paranoid wack-job to some people but he sounds like a whiny, low-life begging piece of scum to me. THAT guy's emails are the example of evil manipulations for cash, not Paul Valone & the GRNC.
    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. O'Rourke; The Liberty Manifesto
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G22shooter View Post
    I hear what you're trying to complain about -- BUT the GRNC has never been an organization to spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) for the purposes of fundraising.

    Look closely at the message again. We got HB650. Yay! However, it's true that our elected representatives on BOTH sides of the Republican/Democrat line are NOT doing enough and that they continue to try to chip away at or prevent us from exercising our 2nd Amendment rights.

    If you want to see REAL fear-mongering, scare tactics and other FUD distribution for the purposes of fundraising -- look at Dudley Brown and the National Association for Gun Rights. That guy comes off as a real paranoid wack-job to some people but he sounds like a whiny, low-life begging piece of scum to me. THAT guy's emails are the example of evil manipulations for cash, not Paul Valone & the GRNC.
    Thanks for the kind words. Anyone that thinks NC is not a battle ground for the next election doesn't read the newspapers. That's one of the reasons Michelle has made so many visits to Fayetteville and Fort Bragg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderjohn View Post
    I agree. I was thinking about getting involved but the rhetoric kind of turns me off. I think both parties have infringed upon our rights.

    Think Republicans are the protectors of our gun rights....? Just google republicans and gun control...both parties are equally dangerous IMO. Here's a small sample of what you will find from such a search. This was taken from: http://reformed-theology.org/html/is...e_liberals.htm:
    If you really want to know who your, our friends are in the General Assembly get involves with GRNC's Legislative Action Team. Donations help a lot especially at election time. (If you don't know, no one draws a salary). More import is your time. Volunteer

    One of the Representatives told us at a dinner that the liberals, D's and R's, don't really know how to take us. We kind of scare them. First we hit them with emails, phone calls, etc. Then they get a visit from the LAT. See, they understand why a lobbyist that's being paid thousands of dollars shows up and lobbies. What they can't understand is why a half dozen to a dozen leave their jobs and chase them around the GA. HB 650 was passed because of a lot of chasing, not because of our "friends" in the GA.

    You really don't know how close we came to not having HB650. If Republicans we or protectors, HB111 would also be law by now.

    Above you state "I think both parties have infringed upon our right."
    I am involved, I don't think, I KNOW

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketdad View Post
    If you really want to know who your, our friends are in the General Assembly get involves with GRNC's Legislative Action Team. Donations help a lot especially at election time. (If you don't know, no one draws a salary). More import is your time. Volunteer

    ...snip...

    Charles
    That's the point. I would like to volunteer but the OP sounds like a far right conservative group just bashing the 'liberals'. I don't want to be part of that. There are more productive ways of going about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderjohn View Post
    That's the point. I would like to volunteer but the OP sounds like a far right conservative group just bashing the 'liberals'. I don't want to be part of that. There are more productive ways of going about it.
    Such as...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiderjohn View Post
    That's the point. I would like to volunteer but the OP sounds like a far right conservative group just bashing the 'liberals'. I don't want to be part of that. There are more productive ways of going about it.
    If GRNC was just some far right conservative group bashing liberals, HB650 would not be law. HB111 would not be sitting in the Senate awaiting a vote. There would be no reciprocity in this state.CHP holders would still have to buy permits. There would be very few gun shows. You would have to keep your firearms in a safe with a trigger lock all the time. I can even remember all the stupid stuff GRNC has killed in the 15 or so years I have worked with them. Almost every pro gun law passed since 1995 has been written by GRNC. Pretty good job for an organization that doesn't pay their employees.

    We do a lot more that "just bash liberals"

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    whoa...

    if u read what i stated in my post was the group has contibuted...i refuse to debate what we have is strictly due this or that specific org...

    i objected to the scare rethoric used...it turns some off..it is the same comments i sent to nra

    tell me what intrinistically i will get from vol or contributing verse the chicken little bs the sky is falling rethoric i hear from everyone..

    im sorry but is that a wolf i see over there?????

    wabbbit

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    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    if u read what i stated in my post was the group has contibuted...i refuse to debate what we have is strictly due this or that specific org...

    i objected to the scare rethoric used...it turns some off..it is the same comments i sent to nra

    tell me what intrinistically i will get from vol or contributing verse the chicken little bs the sky is falling rethoric i hear from everyone..

    im sorry but is that a wolf i see over there?????

    wabbbit
    Actually, it is a wolf that you see over there. Without GRNC in this state, that "wolf" would have swallowed many of our freedoms.

    But I do get your point. I'm not much for sensationalist messages either. I want cold hard facts and then it's easier to work from there. When I read stuff like that I simply skim over it and get to the facts and the presented solutions. But the truth remains, without GRNC doing what it does, this state would be now much less friendly for gun owners. It's good that you choose not to debate the facts as to who is responsible for what we have. There's no question that almost every piece of gun legislation that is pro-gun in this state for the past 15 years or so is a direct result of GRNC leading the way, and in many cases on their own.

    As for the more productive ways of going about it, you haven't presented these yet. Doing so here would be nice, but what would work better is for you to contact GRNC directly and give them your ideas. They can use all the help they can get, especially since there's no one else doing it here at the state level.

    But maybe you're not comfortable supporting GRNC due to what you believe are questionable sensationalist standpoints. Perhaps you could start your own group and get results? I, for one, would be interested in helping. We can never have too many groups working toward the same goals, after all. You could implement your ideas and methods which are better and more effective than GRNC's and both groups could work toward repealing bad pieces of gun legislation which put a burden on the gun owners of this state.

    A win-win situation for everybody, no?

  12. #12
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    that is what i would say..

    rotohead, you have already articulated what the organization should stress - unemotional, result oriented specifics (not vague innuendo such as.. over the last 15yrs we are responsible...blah blah blah as emotionly spouted here). for example:

    1. this organization spent xyz volunteer hours on hb 650 (cc carry oriented)...result...it passed with all the facets we wanted!! Or out of ten things we wanted 8 were included in the bill. (interesting to note this organizational material states:◦"GRNC recently passed omnibus gun bill HB 650 " -[http://www.grnc.org/home/about-grnc/...complishments]. if GRNC passed hb650 is it legally binding in the courts?)

    2. this organization collected xyz donations and ##% was spent towards reaching our goa(s)l. (leads me to the next point)

    3. what exactly is the specific mission or goal of the organization? why isn't it so stated on the front page of the website not buried where someone has to search for it. (interestingly, the statement i found was '...education of the public...')

    4. now that hb 650 is over...whats our next goal we are striving for? again specific measurable ogjectives as reading their website a specific goal seems ambigious...

    sidebar...
    1. How, where, and how did this organization get 85K gun owner's mail addressses? (http://www.grnc.org/remember-in-nove...er-in-november)

    2. as mentioned...the organization needs to quit living off of emotionality but deal in objective result orientated specifics...as Ms Jackson said many years ago..."What have you done for me lately?"

    MH submitted constructive and contributed w/my five cent donation...

    wabbit

    ps: wider GRNC audience here so hopefully those GRNC'ers will ping their hiearchy w/these changes verses a letter sitting in someone's box awaiting to be read...
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-04-2011 at 07:29 PM. Reason: clarification

  13. #13
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Excellent.

    If you would, pass this along to the GRNC leadership found on the website and I'm sure they will look at it and give it due consideration. I can personally attest to the fact that Mr Valone will answer emails sent to him, whether or not he agrees with them. I've sent several his way and each one was answered. Some of them we agreed on and others we didn't. I like his honesty and it gives you a definite position in which to agree or disagree with.

    One note on point number 4: GRNC is actively addressing several abuses by numerous municipalities concerning local ordinances they are adopting in an effort to thwart the progress made with the passing of HB650. Along with that, I'm sure they will be bringing attention to the biggest portion of HB650 that was stripped from the bill right before it was passed- the stipulations to allow CHP holders to carry concealed in establishments where alcohol is both sold and consumed. This bill is sitting in wait for the next NC General Assembly session. It will take a huge effort to get this passed. My best guess is that GRNC will be highly visible in due time concerning this matter as it gets closer to being read in the GA session.

    But again, you raise a great point concerning their website. Perhaps you could send these concerns along with others to the GRNC leadership and have them addressed, as well. Maybe they would consider adding more to their short term and or long term goals to the site as a service. In regards to that much, I do know they are very selective as to what they put out in public concerning details of future events. Sadly, there are groups in this state that look for any little thing, any little advantage, in which to trip up the efforts of those fighting for our 2A rights. In an almost child-like fashion, they will take any bit of information they can get and use it to hinder the efforts. It sounds paranoid, I know, but it's the sad truth. I guess for some groups the idea of simply presenting your case on it's merits and letting them stand on their own isn't quite good enough. But, GRNC does what any great poker player would, they hold the cards close to keep prying eyes from wandering.

    So yes, there are times when it seems getting specifics from GRNC can seem rather frustrating. It almost appears to be a "we're working on this, just shut up and wait for it" kind of attitude. In fact, I had thought the same things until some of this stuff was explained to me. Now, it just makes sense.

    Of course, people must take all available information and make a decision concerning which groups to support, and which ones are not deserving due to whatever reasons. As far as I'm concerned, I put my trust in GRNC more than any other group when it comes to matters of the defense of 2A related legislation as they apply in this state. I've only been a member since March of last year. Less than 12 months now, but already I've been impressed by their tenacity, their honesty in one on one conversation, and in trusting them not to squander any donations I may have made. If that ever changes or my trust is abused, I'll leave them and look for others who can do it more effectively and honestly. To this point, I have no fear of placing my trust in them. I can't think of another group out there for which I can say the same when it comes to matters of the 2A in NC.

    So, do the newsletters sometimes sound sensationalist? I reckon. Personally I'd tone it down just a notch, but then again, I don't run the GRNC. I can only make a decision to either support them or not.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by rotorhead; 12-04-2011 at 09:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    rotohead, you have already articulated what the organization should stress - unemotional, result oriented specifics (not vague innuendo such as.. over the last 15yrs we are responsible...blah blah blah as emotionly spouted here). for example:

    1. this organization spent xyz volunteer hours on hb 650 (cc carry oriented)...result...it passed with all the facets we wanted!! Or out of ten things we wanted 8 were included in the bill. (interesting to note this organizational material states:◦"GRNC recently passed omnibus gun bill HB 650 " -[http://www.grnc.org/home/about-grnc/...complishments]. if GRNC passed hb650 is it legally binding in the courts?)

    2. this organization collected xyz donations and ##% was spent towards reaching our goa(s)l. (leads me to the next point)

    3. what exactly is the specific mission or goal of the organization? why isn't it so stated on the front page of the website not buried where someone has to search for it. (interestingly, the statement i found was '...education of the public...')

    4. now that hb 650 is over...whats our next goal we are striving for? again specific measurable ogjectives as reading their website a specific goal seems ambigious...

    sidebar...
    1. How, where, and how did this organization get 85K gun owner's mail addressses? (http://www.grnc.org/remember-in-nove...er-in-november)

    2. as mentioned...the organization needs to quit living off of emotionality but deal in objective result orientated specifics...as Ms Jackson said many years ago..."What have you done for me lately?"

    MH submitted constructive and contributed w/my five cent donation...

    wabbit

    ps: wider GRNC audience here so hopefully those GRNC'ers will ping their hiearchy w/these changes verses a letter sitting in someone's box awaiting to be read...
    #1. Somewhere between 60 and 80 hours were spent by volunteers in Fayetteville answering questions like yours.
    #2. Part of the donations pay for the office in Raleigh. The majority goes different types of media.
    #3 & 4.Next goal is to get HB111 passed.
    sidebar
    1. It public info
    2. If nothing in HB650 applies to you, we have done nothing for you.

    These are short answers but I suspect I am debating with some whose mind is already made up.
    Thanks for the criticism of the web site. You have valid points. The site is less than a month old and in construction. I will send your concerns where needed. ( and that's not file 13)

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    alas, me thinks you missed something...

    rotohead thanks for providing the input i am following up on several of your suggestions and your vote of confidence and kind words toward the org are appreciated.

    crickdad, thanks for the feedback to some of my questions...

    however, my post's intent was to provide rotohead, in response to his query, unemotional, result oriented specifics examples the organization might utilize verses fear rethoric and the vague innuendo espoused in the initial posting. my examples were based and drawn off the website's data. interesting to note GRNC has had a website for quite awhile so are you saying this is a new format for the organization?

    as mentioned initially and throughout my posts, i shant debate the contributions of the organization but again it is obvious there is a significant need for the organization to provide some clarity to their membership and those who wish to consider contributing their time and money what goals are being advanced and the successes/failures therein.

    specific example: reading the organizational website, hb650 was a rousing success...yet...was it? quote rotohead (and other folk have stated the same comment) Along with that, I'm sure they will be bringing attention to the biggest portion of HB650 that was stripped from the bill right before it was passed- the stipulations to allow CHP holders to carry concealed in establishments where alcohol is both sold and consumed. unquote i missed any comments anywhere on the site about this being a goal or even working towards hb111...yet all the membership espouse this as the next goal.

    therefore, as i stated, if GRNC pushed for 10 sanctions and only got 3 that doesnt sound quite so successful, yet if they got 7 out of 10 that is a significant success. in the first portion if they only got 3, how are the missed opportunities being pursued to resolution for the benefit of the community?

    succinct, measureable objectives and goals and how the org is going to reach them and (sales pitch) you can help reach those goals by donating your time and if you can't volunteer then a small donation would benefit this outstanding organization in helping the north carolina firearm population maintain their current and future rights and activities for generations to come. contact xyz if you require any further information on how you can help. (end of sales pitch)

    finally, please do not presume or suspect anything about me...

    wabbit

    ps: btw...please provide a cite on where i can find specifics of the public records i can access for the records of 85K NC firearm owners? i am sure there are those on this forum would be interested to know someone can access this.
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-05-2011 at 08:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    rotohead thanks for providing the input i am following up on several of your suggestions and your vote of confidence and kind words toward the org are appreciated.

    crickdad, thanks for the feedback to some of my questions...

    however, my post's intent was to provide rotohead, in response to his query, unemotional, result oriented specifics examples the organization might utilize verses fear rethoric and the vague innuendo espoused in the initial posting. my examples were based and drawn off the website's data. interesting to note GRNC has had a website for quite awhile so are you saying this is a new format for the organization?

    as mentioned initially and throughout my posts, i shant debate the contributions of the organization but again it is obvious there is a significant need for the organization to provide some clarity to their membership and those who wish to consider contributing their time and money what goals are being advanced and the successes/failures therein.

    specific example: reading the organizational website, hb650 was a rousing success...yet...was it? quote rotohead (and other folk have stated the same comment) Along with that, I'm sure they will be bringing attention to the biggest portion of HB650 that was stripped from the bill right before it was passed- the stipulations to allow CHP holders to carry concealed in establishments where alcohol is both sold and consumed. unquote i missed any comments anywhere on the site about this being a goal or even working towards hb111...yet all the membership espouse this as the next goal.

    therefore, as i stated, if GRNC pushed for 10 sanctions and only got 3 that doesnt sound quite so successful, yet if they got 7 out of 10 that is a significant success. in the first portion if they only got 3, how are the missed opportunities being pursued to resolution for the benefit of the community?

    succinct, measureable objectives and goals and how the org is going to reach them and (sales pitch) you can help reach those goals by donating your time and if you can't volunteer then a small donation would benefit this outstanding organization in helping the north carolina firearm population maintain their current and future rights and activities for generations to come. contact xyz if you require any further information on how you can help. (end of sales pitch)

    finally, please do not presume or suspect anything about me...

    wabbit

    ps: btw...please provide a cite on where i can find specifics of the public records i can access for the records of 85K NC firearm owners? i am sure there are those on this forum would be interested to know someone can access this.
    My memory is not good enough to quote numbers so I'll try and sum up what happened. HB650 resulted in about 25 changes to NC law. Most of those items started out as stand alone bills that GRNC wrote and had introduced. Towards the end of the session it was decided to roll all the single bills into one bill- HB650. Getting it passed was like pulling hens teeth. In the process I only remember losing 2 items, restaurant carry and the rider about posting playgrounds,etc. That's a pretty good win loss ratio.

    HB111 is the restaurant and parks carry bill. It passed the House and was put into the Senate grave yard. A few more hens teeth later and we got it put into a committee. It now awaits a vote when the GA starts back up next year.

    As Rotohead said, our foes are about us and they would love to know our plans.

    As for your last question, There are some things I cannot reveal in a forum and even face to face I would have to think about it. I am one of the Board of Directors of GRNC. There are just some things I cannot comment on.

  17. #17
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Concerning the final version of HB650: It was actually the result of a few different bills that were initially proposed as different bills. Through the long process over the past year and a half or so, certain items were removed, added, changed (to whatever degree), and or amended. This is common with most other bills entered for consideration, no matter the subject. The disappointing result of having the "restaurant carry" portion of the bill was really a "last minute" exclusion on the part of a few members of the General Assembly. Despite the efforts involved, there are times when last minute changes to bills simply happen, and there's little anyone can do about it.

    The process of writing bills, finding politicians to introduce them on the floor, monitoring it's travel through the process, and attempting to see it through untouched to a final vote, is an arduous one, at best. Realistically speaking, it's not unheard of, but it rarely happens. At least not with gun legislation in this state, anyway. As well, there are groups here in NC that are spending just as much time and effort to kill these bills completely, too. Trying to get members of the General Assembly to vote purely and strictly in our favor as gun owners is as delicate a dance as any.

    It's not like GRNC finds a politician to hand a bill to and then goes home for the year, hoping for the best. Instead, many people use their own vacation time from their jobs to stand in the halls and present our case at numerous and varied times throughout the GA sessions. Is it always a 100% victory? No, not at all. If people would rather lay blame on the organization for "failing" to get every line in the bills passed as opposed to the many things they do end up being successful in, then perhaps the group is not worthy of one's support and maybe it's time to turn to other groups that dedicate as much time, money, effort, and energy toward the same goals in this state.

    Please use the space below in this post to list these groups that fit this description...

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    6.
    7.
    8.
    9.
    10.

    I'd be willing to help each one.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 12-05-2011 at 09:28 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    hmmmm

    worrisome a private organization has allegedly that much personal information on gun owners gleaned from preported public records...one hopes the data is being properly secured from bad guys foreign and domestic...

    appreciate the insight gentlemen you have provided food for thought...hopefully to other forum members on the vitrues of GRNC...

    wabbit
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-05-2011 at 10:44 PM.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran G22shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    worrisome a private organization has allegedly that much personal information on gun owners gleaned from preported public records...one hopes the data is being properly secured from bad guys foreign and domestic...

    appreciate the insight gentlemen you have provided food for thought...hopefully to other forum members on the vitrues of GRNC...

    wabbit
    wabbit -- the only thing they have are email addresses! GRNC has those email addresses because the people signed up on the GRNC website voluntarily. Read the first paragraph of the webpage that you linked, yourself:
    In a simple, easily utilized voter guide, the Remember in November project covers nearly all state and federal candidates in North Carolina. In 2010, GRNC distributed 110,000 such voter guides, including 85,000 mailed directly to gun owners across the state.

    GRNC didn't just go grabbing up email addresses at random.
    Last edited by G22shooter; 12-05-2011 at 11:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. O'Rourke; The Liberty Manifesto
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.

  20. #20
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    forgive my aparent confusion...

    g22, from your own post and off the site..."including 85,000 mailed directly to gun owners across the state".

    forgive me but i do not see the word email anywhere on the website's page i cited..

    i am sure g22 you can see how i got confused, just as apparently you have by interjecting the word 'email'. Please note, i am not talking about the 'alerts' which specifically state are emailed in an other section of the website, but a specific remember november candidate voter document!

    wabbit

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    g22, from your own post and off the site..."including 85,000 mailed directly to gun owners across the state".

    forgive me but i do not see the word email anywhere on the website's page i cited..

    i am sure g22 you can see how i got confused, just as apparently you have by interjecting the word 'email'. Please note, i am not talking about the 'alerts' which specifically state are emailed in an other section of the website, but a specific remember november candidate voter document!

    wabbit
    Actually we do have email addresses. They were volunteerly given to us a few years ago during an email campaign. As for the other it public info. I'm just not revealing how it's gleaned.

  22. #22
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    Any mistrust of GRNC by a gun-owning North Carolinian is misplaced

    GRNC has done more for concealed and open carry than it gets 10% credit for.

    If a GRNC appeal sounds dramatic, trust me the forces behind it are 10X more dramatic than what you're hearing.

    As Second Amendment supporters we are absolutely correct on fact and principle. We are also 180* opposite to what most people want to "feel" and "believe" - it's really "scary" to begin to understand that self-defense is the only adequate defense.

    If the support of gun-owners and bearers like us wavers, the ability of the ONLY effective force fighting for freedom to bear arms in NC - GRNC - will be diminished.

    If you are an NC gunowner and see improvements that should be made GET OFF YOUR BUTT, JOIN GRNC, GET INVOLVED, AND MAKE THEM! Otherwise, don't bash the one that has kept you bearing arms. If you do, next stop is California East - and it will be YOUR fault.

    Restaurant carry is really more of a need than a want, isn't it? GRNC is close, very close to scoring this, but will only IF ALL OF US WORK TOGETHER!
    Last edited by Doble Troble; 12-09-2011 at 11:22 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    one person's potato

    sorry it appears your wiki found definition of bashing must be different then mine...no where in this thread did anybody bash the organization...discuss their 'sky is falling, the wolf is coming' rethoric filled promotional material, yes...followed by further discussion aimed from a positive provided constructive suggestions to improve it.


    wabbit

  24. #24
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    From bashing to delusion...

    Delusion 1: Claiming that an organization is promoting "sky is falling, wolf is coming" rhetoric does not constitute "bashing".

    Delusion 2: That GRNC's appeal even approached questionable rhetoric.

    Delusion 3: That you were trying to be "constructive".

    If you don't consider HB 650 a success, maybe you should retreat even in your own home if threatened with violence, and pretend that we still don't have a Castle Doctrine in NC, and leave your gun at home if you ever plan to stop at a state or municipal park?

  25. #25
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    maybe i miss read or misunderstood

    ***** = sky is falling/wolf calling, rethoric
    bolded text = is there a cite to this unsubstated rethoric?
    then the money pitch follows...

    I reiterate once again, i have not maligned nor debated the organizational contributions made to the gun carrying community of NC by this organization only discussed this specific fundraiser's promotional document at the beginning of the post.

    wabbit

    guess my daddy was right, some ppl shouldnt be allowed to wander outside their village...

    cited from OP's original post (quote)
    *****Now for the bad news: ******Republicans in the legislature (all of the rep legislatures?) continue to stonewall on giving you restaurant carry, municipalities are doing their best to willfully subvert concealed carry in parks, and worst of all ...

    *****Your home state is being targeted by Obama leftists!

    That's right: Obama has you in his sights. Not just by visiting the state repeatedly (on your dime, of course), not just by staging the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte ... *****no, you can expect to see the same ACORN-inspired leftists "occupying" the state you call home!

    "Parties agree: N.C. is key to 2012," said a recent headline.(subjective and from what publication since it is quoted?) "It's hard to put together a scenario in which a Republican [presidential candidate] gets 270 electoral votes without North Carolina," said one GOP strategist.(subjective and from what strategist said this?) . *****Will you let the loony left turn a conservative state "blue" once again?

    *****And it gets worse: Not only are Obama's people setting you up for a second term, in which they will unveil the full anti-gun agenda they have camouflaged until now.(subjective and from where is publication ?) , but if 2008 is any representation ...

    *****Obama's "coat-tail" effect could undo
    everything you have accomplished in the state!

    *****Remember the last time? Avowed anti-gunner Joe Hackney (GRNC 0-star) as Speaker of the House; ACLU director Deborah Ross (0-star) as chair of the powerful Judiciary Committee, where all gun bills are heard; Hugh Holliman (0-star) as House Majority Leader.

    Remember how Holliman & Co. killed your Castle Doctrine bill? (Before GRNC removed him from office, of course.) .(subjective as it is unclear who lost their election since the preceeding para talks about several ppl - the org removed him or them) Remember the narrowly-defeated bills to register gun owners with the State Bureau of Investigation, or to prosecute gun owners for having the audacity to have guns stolen from them? (subjective per se and is this a organizational win or ?)

    *****That's our future unless we act ASAP!
    (excellent copy on next two paragraphs
    RNC is getting bigger, better and stronger. We've revamped our alerts and our web site. We're working more gun shows - and activating more gun owners - across the state than ever before.

    In 2010, GRNC's "Remember in November" project put essential information on which candidates support your rights into the hands of 110,000 gun voters, including 75,000 mailed directly to them. The GRNC Political Victory Fund mailed tens of thousands of postcard election alerts and did radio spots in 14 state races and one congressional race.

    But we need more!

    *****To repel the left, to preserve and extend our gains, and to rout Obama in a critical state ...

    I want YOU to help GRNC, in the 2012 election, to get out 150,000 voter guides; to mail 100,000 (personally, still have a security question about this comment) to gun owning voters, and to do postcard election alerts and radio spots in at least 20 races where we can make a difference.

    Yes, I know you're short of cash. The economy is lousy; maybe - like me - you're earning a fraction of what you used to; maybe you don't even have a job.

    But understand this: *****What's at stake is the future - the future for you, for your kids, and for your country. So I'm asking you to:

    Contribute to Grass Roots North Carolina! -- http://grnc.org/join-grnc/contribute

    Even if you are already a member, and even if you have already done so, we need your help and we need it now.

    If you know me, you know I don't make a habit of dunning you for money. And if you know GRNC, you know we promise to put your money to more efficient, effective use than any other gun rights organization; GRNC promises you "Max" bang for your legislative buck (subjective can you provide specifics?. *****So please help GRNC defend the gains we've made and further our inroads toward restoring your constitutionally-protected freedoms.

    Armatissimi e liberissimi,

    F. Paul Valone
    President, Grass Roots North Carolina Reply With Quote Blog this Post
    (unquote) .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-11-2011 at 04:29 PM. Reason: clarification

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