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Thread: ohio homeowner captures thief,hogties him.

  1. #1
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    ohio homeowner captures thief,hogties him.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-homeowner...133242803.html


    ATHENS, Ohio (AP) An Ohio sheriff says he doesn't plan to pursue charges against a homeowner who subdued and hogtied an alleged robber.
    Athens County Sheriff Pat Kelly tells WBNS-TV(http://bit.ly/vLtJ2S) the homeowner had a right to protect his property and himself. Kelly says that's what authorities believe the homeowner did Thursday when he chased the burglar and tied up the man's hands and feet.
    Kelly says when deputies arrived to investigate the robbery at the southeast Ohio home, they found the suspect restrained in the back of the homeowner's car. He says the homeowner recognized the robber and went to his residence to subdue him.
    Homeowner William Stanley tells the television station his video game systems were taken earlier Thursday, and he later found the man in his home.



    If im reading this right, the homeowner knew the robber, went to the robbers home, essentially bound and kidnapped him, to turn him into police???
    and he wasnt charged?!?!?!

    Awesome, i like that sheriff. really lets the self defense stuff reach out there in his county!
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    I like that sheriff too! I think sheriffs are starting to get tired of the increase in crime and are starting to give citizens a little more leeway with things like this to help combat crime. Granted I am sure in most other places this guy would be charged with kidnapping. Would be nice if there were more sheriffs like this across the country.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    It borders on vigilantism...but the thief got what was due him.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  4. #4
    Regular Member Big Boy's Avatar
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    If the original victim wen't onto the suspects property to "apprehend him" the suspect would have lawfully been able to defend himself, and charges would have most likely have end up falling on the original victim.

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    The robbery victim went to the robber's home and tied him up???

    The sheriff is not the only agent of the State who could charge the homeowner with a crime. I don't know OH law when it comes to citizen's arrests, but that homeowner may well yet be charged with a felony. I am glad that the robber is in custody. I hope he is properly convicted and punished. However, that homeowner may have stupidly put himself in legal jeopardy, and the fact that the sheriff did not arrest him does not end that jeopardy.

    I hope no one here reads that story and chooses to take similar foolish action!

  6. #6
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    In some states, the Citizen's Arrest makes allowances for the pursuit/apprehension in the case of a felony being committed ... and in a lot of states, burglarly moves into the realm of felony based on the amount of property taken ... a big screen or plasma will probably meet that requirement.

    Now, in Kentucky, it is allowed to apprehend and hog tie someone that breaks and enters, it just isn't kosher to then beat him with baseball bats until the Sherrif arrives
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  7. #7
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    but to go to the bg's house

    and apprehend, hogtie, and then kidnap them off their own property seems a bit extreme... me thinks teh suspect's attorney will have fun w/this situation.

    wabbit

    ps: i just wish NC would allow us 'citizen arrest' concepts period!!

  8. #8
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    Under English Common Law, the Fleeing Felon Doctrine permits one to go after and apprehend someone known to have committed a felony. From Wikipedia we get the following:

    U.S. Law

    Under U.S. law the fleeing felon rule was limited to non-lethal force in most cases by Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985). The justices held that deadly force "may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

    Fleeing felons may be followed into places not open to the public without a warrant if the officer is in "hot pursuit." See Warden, Md. Penitentiary v. Hayden, [2], 87 S.Ct. 1642, 18 L.Ed.2d 782.

    Deadly force executed by a co-defendant against an accomplice is not justified by the fleeing felon rule. Campbell v. State (MD, 1982) [3]

    [edit] Case Law
    Samuel Alito's memo written while working in the Solicitor General's office regarding Memphis Police v. Garner which was the Sixth Circuit appellate case leading to Tennessee v. Garner. [4] (May 18, 1984) (PDF)
    People v. Crouch[5] (1990) in the Michigan Supreme Court held that Tennessee v. Garner was
    1.civil rather than criminal action;
    2.did not affect Michigan's Fleeing Felon Rule; and
    3.that a citizen may use deadly force when restraining a fleeing felon in a criminal matter.
    State v. Weddell[6], The Nevada Supreme Court ruled that a private citizen may not use deadly force under the common law fleeing felon rule.

  9. #9
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    None of that seems to say that a private citizen may, at a later date or time, go to a suspect's house, enter it, subdue the suspect, and restrain him. Absent specific justification in the law for his actions, the homeowner is likely guilty of several felonies. He may get away with it, but his actions were unwise and put him in legal jeopardy. If the DA does not prosecute, the robber will probably sue and win.

  10. #10
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Eye, some states interpret that ANY TIME you know someone committed a felony, you may apprehend in any manner up to and including use of deadly force ... it is very state specific and folks should know their state's statute and how the DAs apply the law. This also can include entering any place of residence or business, apprehending the felon, and detaining the felon, and delivering to nearest magistrate soonest (he retreated to a secure location and called the police to come get the guy).

    From my understanding of how the law is applied in my state, his actions are justified and he did nothing wrong.

    Now, in a court of law, evidence is required to prove the felony was committed, and the GG finding his stolen property in the BGs house certainly goes a long way towards supporting his assertion that the BG had robbed him on more than one occassion. And, the police had not been able to investigate and gather the proof needed to support charges being filed.
    cheers - okboomer
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  11. #11
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    The rule here is: If a felony committed in your presence, and the felon is is a threat to the pubic at large (still armed fits) you can do what you need to to make a citizens arrest. A home invasion fits the felony part, especially if the BG is armed (knife is enough, does not need to be a firearm)
    Last edited by hermannr; 12-07-2011 at 10:20 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    The rule here is: If a felony committed in your presence, and the felon is is a threat to the pubic at large (still armed fits) you can do what you need to to make a citizens arrest. A home invasion fits the felony part, especially if the BG is armed (knife is enough, does not need to be a firearm)
    Is that the law in OH or a generalization. Laws on self-defense vary from State to State, but are usually fairly explicit as to whether you can go to the suspected felon's home and physically restrain him.

    No one has yet made a definitive post on what Ohio's law says on the matter. Until someone posts a substantiated claim about the State law, I see the above (not just the quoted post) as so much unsupported speculation.

    It's kind of important to know the law before commenting on the meaning of what it says.

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