Question/Comment for KYGlockster

I noticed in the topic here http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?97005-First-Time-Kentucky-OCer&p=1649771#post1649771 you said

Cities are preempted in Ky from making any law on firearms. Only state legislature makes firearm law, and nothing you really need to know, other than ocing is fine in rest. That serves alcohol, but if you go to a bar that doesn't make 50% of it's income from food sales you can carry openly, just has to be unloaded. The only other places you can't carry are courthouses that house only the court of justice, k12 school property, detention facilities, and federal property. I doubt you are going to any of these places so your good to go. "no firearms" signs do not hold force of law in Ky, so you can ignore them if you want. Enjoy all our great state has to offer and carry on!

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When you have the time could you please clarify this statement for me? I was under the impression that a non-governmental property owner/business can post a sign/and or ask someone with a firearm to leave the premises. I am trying to read for context but I am afraid it comes across to me as all "no firearms signs" are nonenforceable in KY.

Any clarification you can make is appreciated!

Thank You

cwohardy said:

I noticed in the topic here http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?97005-First-Time-Kentucky-OCer&p=1649771#post1649771 you said



When you have the time could you please clarify this statement for me? I was under the impression that a non-governmental property owner/business can post a sign/and or ask someone with a firearm to leave the premises. I am trying to read for context but I am afraid it comes across to me as all "no firearms signs" are nonenforceable in KY.

Any clarification you can make is appreciated!

Thank You

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As a private land owner you can pick and choose who (if any) can carry a gun on your property. I believe that KYG was talking about places like ashland (central?) park. They have no firearms signs posted everywhere. But, because it is public land, and KY limits the powers of city/county governments these signs cannot be legally enforced. These signs just keep the uninformed out.

09jisaac said:

As a private land owner you can pick and choose who (if any) can carry a gun on your property. I believe that KYG was talking about places like ashland (central?) park. They have no firearms signs posted everywhere. But, because it is public land, and KY limits the powers of city/county governments these signs cannot be legally enforced. These signs just keep the uninformed out.

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Unless they've gone back and changed the signs again, Ashland's Centrasl Park is OC friendly now. Some of our fellow OC'ers here got onto the city board of Ashland about the illegality of their anti-carry signs in the park. After ALOT of stalling and such, the city reluctantly changed their stance and changed the signs to remove the NO CARRY reference.

As the KRS stands, the anti-carry signs have no legal teeth in referce to weapons charges for carrying, there can be Criminal Trespassing charges though if asked to leave and you refuse. This not relating to the known off limit areas and federal areas though; those are legally OFF LIMITS of course.

What I was implying is, say your favorite restaurant or a mall you like to visit has no firearms signs posted. You can walk past these signs while carrying a firearm, and you can't be arrested for simply ignoring these signs. However if a manager comes up to you and asks you to leave because you are carrying, well then you must leave, because they don't want you inside their premises, and the law can cite you for trespass if you don't leave. When I stated "no firearms" signs do not hold force of law, I simply meant it isn't against the law to ignore them. Neuro, the signs are still down at central park, but remember, there is k-12 school property in the park.

Okay, thank you for clearing that up! I just moved back here after 20 years away in the Army and my last duty station was Texas. There it was ALL about "The Sign". They even had state laws regarding the size, color, font type, placement etc. There it was a crime to ignore the sign, especially since cc was the only option so a large part of the required class concerned "obeying" the sign.

Never would have thought Texas was anti oc until I lived there.

cwohardy said:

Okay, thank you for clearing that up! I just moved back here after 20 years away in the Army and my last duty station was Texas. There it was ALL about "The Sign". They even had state laws regarding the size, color, font type, placement etc. There it was a crime to ignore the sign, especially since cc was the only option so a large part of the required class concerned "obeying" the sign.

Never would have thought Texas was anti oc until I lived there.

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You came to the right place if you want gun friendly. Most of the banks around here don't even have signs prohibiting guns (wouldn't OC in there though). And most businesses respect you(r money) enough to allow your firearm as long as you're not causing problems. We have laws (as I am sure you have read) that limits what local governments can regulate. Cops don't seem to really mine much, I have been stopped but none has ever asked for my ID or talked too long at me. For the most part they tell you what you're doing is unsafe (Perps saying "If you're man enough to carry a gun are you man enough to use it?, but that has only happened to me like once and I have been carrying a gun for a week now. Kidding), but nothing much beyond that. They will suggest your concealing it. And people don't rush their kids away from you in fear, if they don't like guns they will just give you a weird stare. Most won't even leave where you're at.

KYGlockster said:

What I was implying is, say your favorite restaurant or a mall you like to visit has no firearms signs posted. You can walk past these signs while carrying a firearm, and you can't be arrested for simply ignoring these signs. However if a manager comes up to you and asks you to leave because you are carrying, well then you must leave, because they don't want you inside their premises, and the law can cite you for trespass if you don't leave. When I stated "no firearms" signs do not hold force of law, I simply meant it isn't against the law to ignore them. Neuro, the signs are still down at central park, but remember, there is k-12 school property in the park.

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I thought that somene osted that that school had been shut down or something as such. Is that incorrect?

I mentioned it when it first shutdown, however I didn't know they where still
Using it as offices. I'm sure you know, but state law says within 1000 ft of ANY school district property, not just k-12 schools. I see people OCing right in front of the building while walking all the time, but I stay concealed just so nobody causes a scene.

KYGlockster said:

I mentioned it when it first shutdown, however I didn't know they where still
Using it as offices. I'm sure you know, but state law says within 1000 ft of ANY school district property, not just k-12 schools. I see people OCing right in front of the building while walking all the time, but I stay concealed just so nobody causes a scene.

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Well, I wasn't aware of the offices still being there but then again, I'm not local to the Ashland area (about 60 miles away). I do know that the federal law does have an exemption for those of us that have CCDW to pass through those areas without issue though. Even with the exemption, I stick to the roadways and sidewalks passing by the schools.

Hopefully this inane GFZ stuff will be completely revised to a better definition or else completely removed! All it does it make "criminals" out of otherwise law-abiding citizens! Plus, we've ALL seen just how safe and effective the GFZ's really are. Virginia Tech & Columbine are the greatest arguments against GFZ's as opposed to the Appalachian School of Law shooting! The latter incident, while there were 3 fatalities (Dean Sutin, Prof. Blackwell, & Angela Dales) and 3 other students were wounded, was promptly ended when the shooter, 43-year-old Nigerian former student Peter Odighizuwa was confronted by 2 armed students and 1 unarmed student as he exited the building where the shootings took place. There are different versions of what happened then but in the end, Mr. Odighizuwa was detained, and after 3 years he was tried and found guilty of the murders and was sentenced to 3 life sentences and an additional 28 years without the possibility of parole. This incident was written about by John Lott as an example of how firearms are never credited as being used in a defensive role.

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

Yes federal law does exempt us, but state law still makes it illegal, we can only carry in our vehicle when in a school zone. Kinda a joke, especially since state law is stricter than Federal law, which is unbelievable. I do wish someone would be charged and fight the law in court. I think it's a joke all around, just makes people sitting ducks when in one of these gfsz's. In the aftermath of the Appalachian shooting, everytime one of the individuals with a firearm brought up the fact he was armed during the takedown, during news interviews, the media was always quick to point out that they were both law Enforcement off duty. What did it matter if they had a badge or not?, the gun is what stopped this nut from killing more innocent people. If the media wasn't so bias, alot of the people that are on the fence, or even the ones that's against firearms could see how much more good they do than evil. I read not to long ago about the Brady center trying to tell folks the reason firearm makers are making more products gears toward a woman's need is because men aren't buying firearms like they used to, nevermind the fact more woman than ever before are starting to shoot and carry, and the fact that ncic checks are always greater than they were the same month last year!! Their excuse for the 130,000 ncic checks done on black Friday alone??, that firearms retailers have just figured out how to attract the shoppers to their businesses.!!! What a joke, the anti's know they have lost their fight, and will say anything for someone to listen to them! I would suggest an app. For anyone with a smartphone, it's called "Gun Rights", and will keep you up to date on all the need to know information, it's where I read about this!

527.070(1) says along with no deadly weapon being allowed in any school building or bus, it also says no weapon on any public or private school campus, GROUNDS.....Or any other property owned or USED by board of education....

527.030(3) says this does not apply to an adult able to possess firearms, as long as the firearm is not taken from the vehicle...

State law makes no mention of a cdwl, because federal law already makes it a felony if your within 1000ft of a school zone without a cdwl. So the state krs only applies to adults who are able to possess a firearm and have a cdwl, because without the cdwl you can't be within 1000ft because of federal law.

I'm sure everyone interprets this different, but I'm not gonna openly carry a firearm on a sidewalk that is 3 ft from the front door of a building owned by the Ashland school board, especially when the city didn't want to do away with their ban in the park anyways, and since that sidewalk is used 3 times a day to load and unload children, because there is still a pre-school in the building. Just my opinion, others might be more willing to get arrested and test exactly what the courts would define as on school grounds, and property used by the school board.

That was my mistake, I used the wrong wording. I am interested to hear your opinion on this. The entrance to the building is honestly 3ft from the edge of sidewalk, and the concrete from the sidewalk runs right up to the buildings steps. What do you think?