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Thread: Finally OCd last night

  1. #1
    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Cool Finally OCd last night

    ...at Taco Bell. I finally got a retention holster that fits my P99 a couple days ago (Serpa), and this was the first business that I'd been to since I got it (except work, but I can't carry at work. Stupid hospitals and their Brady Bunch signs). So I figured it was now or never. It was at about 11pm and I was wearing cargo kakhis, a tucked in grey undershirt and a grey fleece pullover (my work clothes). The nice thing about this pullover is that it has a zipper down the left side (my strong side) that affords much easier access to my weapon when opened, and anyone on my left side can see it. Pulling it up basically detaches the front side from the rear. Pulling it down puts me back to CC and a little warmer. It was way too cold to take the fleece off so I just had it unzipped. So anyway, I walk in and the place is pretty much deserted except for one party of two or three. I didn't want to pay too much attention to them, but I kept myself aware of where they were. Well, before I finished paying for my order they walked out. Not sure if they were just done or if it had something to do with my presence. I know that's paranoia talking, but I wouldn't be surprised by either, judging by their appearance. None of the employees seemed to notice, granted I didn't really have my strong side to them until I was headed toward the door. So yeah, I was pretty self conscious the whole time. I guess a few OC trips to Wal-Mart are in store for me.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Congratulations on the OC experience. You'll find that most of the time it goes pretty much like that - a big let-down with no drama and nobody even noticing that you have a handgun strapped to your side.

    I hear most Wal-Marts have done away with the Nacho Station, so you may have to adjust your trip there accordingly. However, this guide still proves invaluable to newbies. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/texas-concealed-handgun-chl-sponsored-double-action-chl/11548-1st-time-concealed-carry-walmart-walk.html


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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Wow, Is that ever different than the Wal-Marts I've been in! Do they really have stores that small still?

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Newbies...to Wal-Mart. Where I'm from that sounds like an oxy moron lol.

    Here's the funny thing about that layout. It's dead on for the one in Johnson City. But go to the next town over, Elizabethton, and theirs is a complete mirror of JC's. In the "nacho" area is the McDonald's. In JC I think it's a hair salon (or both, or the other way. Having them mirrored makes it confusing). Either way, station 1 is a no go, which I avoid at all costs. 3, 4, 5 and 6 are about my norm. "Eyes right" between 4 and 5 is over my head though.

    And I wouldn't say that a no-drama trip is a let down. That's the way it should be every time.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    ...at Taco Bell. I finally got a retention holster that fits my P99 a couple days ago (Serpa), and this was the first business that I'd been to since I got it (except work, but I can't carry at work. Stupid hospitals and their Brady Bunch signs). So I figured it was now or never.

    It was at about 11pm and I was wearing cargo kakhis, a tucked in grey undershirt and a grey fleece pullover (my work clothes). The nice thing about this pullover is that it has a zipper down the left side (my strong side) that affords much easier access to my weapon when opened, and anyone on my left side can see it. Pulling it up basically detaches the front side from the rear. Pulling it down puts me back to CC and a little warmer. It was way too cold to take the fleece off so I just had it unzipped.

    So anyway, I walk in and the place is pretty much deserted except for one party of two or three. I didn't want to pay too much attention to them, but I kept myself aware of where they were. Well, before I finished paying for my order they walked out. Not sure if they were just done or if it had something to do with my presence. I know that's paranoia talking, but I wouldn't be surprised by either, judging by their appearance. None of the employees seemed to notice, granted I didn't really have my strong side to them until I was headed toward the door.

    So yeah, I was pretty self conscious the whole time. I guess a few OC trips to Wal-Mart are in store for me.
    Cool. I carried (concealed) for the first time about a week ago (unless you count the time I was transporting my gun to the range and just put it on the front seat, which would have been illegal if I didn't have my permit). I carried it again today (although, I have to admit, i've kept it in the car both times). It feels weird and different at first, but it gets easier as you do it.
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

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    Nascar24Glock,

    It does get easier and become "second-nature" with time. It's extremely important however, for you to get used to it, that you carry your firearm on you and stop leaving it in the car. When Luby's happened in Texas, several people had guns in their cars and most of those people are dead. If you're not familiar with the case, I would definitely do some research on it.

    The "everybody knows I'm carrying" feeling goes away in a few days, and eventually, you might even feel comfortable with OC. Just remember that you own a firearm for your protection and those around you....not to make liberals feel better about the "make-believe" world they think is safe.

    Carry Safely, Carry Proudly, And CARRY ALWAYS

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2A Pride View Post
    Nascar24Glock,

    It does get easier and become "second-nature" with time. It's extremely important however, for you to get used to it, that you carry your firearm on you and stop leaving it in the car. When Luby's happened in Texas, several people had guns in their cars and most of those people are dead. If you're not familiar with the case, I would definitely do some research on it.

    The "everybody knows I'm carrying" feeling goes away in a few days, and eventually, you might even feel comfortable with OC. Just remember that you own a firearm for your protection and those around you....not to make liberals feel better about the "make-believe" world they think is safe.

    Carry Safely, Carry Proudly, And CARRY ALWAYS
    On the first carry event, I left it in the car because I was actually at someone's house, and because I was attending a party that could have been construed as a "school event" (don't worry, the car was on a public street; I made sure of that). On the second one, I didn't have it on me because I don't have a holster for it, just a huge zippered case (I'm actually just borrowing this one from someone until I get my own carry gun with holster as a Christmas present). Since it was an old Charter arms .38 revolver, I was concerned that putting it in my front pocket might (A) snag the trigger and discharge it, or (B) strike the hammer and discharge it. Perhaps my concerns were unfounded; I just didn't want to run the risk of receiving a surprise shot to the leg or foot .
    Last edited by Nascar24Glock; 12-10-2011 at 07:46 PM. Reason: small correction
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

  8. #8
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Congratulations on a successful, confidence-building, "maiden" open carry!
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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    On the first carry event, I left it in the car because I was actually at someone's house, and because I was attending a party that could have been construed as a "school event" (don't worry, the car was on a public street; I made sure of that). On the second one, I didn't have it on me because I don't have a holster for it, just a huge zippered case (I'm actually just borrowing this one from someone until I get my own carry gun with holster as a Christmas present). Since it was an old Charter arms .38 revolver, I was concerned that putting it in my front pocket might (A) snag the trigger and discharge it, or (B) strike the hammer and discharge it. Perhaps my concerns were unfounded; I just didn't want to run the risk of receiving a surprise shot to the leg or foot .
    then you did right, I wouldn't carry any pistol without a holster. It's very unlikely with a double action revolver, but if I couldn't be 100% sure that nothing would touch the trigger I wouldn't leave it to chance.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

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    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2A Pride View Post
    Nascar24Glock,

    When Luby's happened in Texas, several people had guns in their cars and most of those people are dead. If you're not familiar with the case, I would definitely do some research on it.
    When the Luby's event occurred, the law abiding citizens were not allowed to carry into the restaurant. The maniac, who broke the law, did not care it was a "gun free" zone.

    Everyone here is correct. Get practice to get used to carrying it. I wish you would go a step further with the practice. Go to the range and practice drawing, aiming, and firing it. A tool is useless if you do not know how to use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HvyMtl View Post
    Go to the range and practice drawing, aiming, and firing it. A tool is useless if you do not know how to use it.
    Except in the case of an OC'd firearm because 90% of the usefulness of an OC'd firearm is in deterrance rather than defense. To put it bluntly, only the dumbest of criminals would still consider robbing the Taco Bell while SovereignAxe was there OC'ing. Once a criminal sees someone OC'ing they know the place is a hard target and they prefer soft targets. Even if the OC'd firearm is unloaded and the person OC'ing doesn't even have ammo for it, the OC'd firearm is able to carry out it's full use as a deterrant. It only loses it's usefulness as a defense mechansim. However, if the weapon does it's job effectively as a deterrant, then there is no need to use it in defense.

    To put this in different terms, mutally assured destruction (MAD) prevents wars from starting because it acts as a deterrance factor. The only thing required for MAD to work is for each side to BELIEVE that the other side has the ability to wipe them out. In fact if a nation did away with their nuclear arms altogether, but the other side didn't know that, MAD would still work as a deterrance factor.

    That's what makes OC'ing such a valuable asset to the entire community.
    Last edited by Z1P2; 01-20-2012 at 04:36 AM.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z1P2 View Post
    Except in the case of an OC'd firearm because 90% of the usefulness of an OC'd firearm is in deterrance rather than defense. To put it bluntly, only the dumbest of criminals would still consider robbing the Taco Bell while SovereignAxe was there OC'ing. Once a criminal sees someone OC'ing they know the place is a hard target and they prefer soft targets. Even if the OC'd firearm is unloaded and the person OC'ing doesn't even have ammo for it, the OC'd firearm is able to carry out it's full use as a deterrant. It only loses it's usefulness as a defense mechansim. However, if the weapon does it's job effectively as a deterrant, then there is no need to use it in defense.

    To put this in different terms, mutally assured destruction (MAD) prevents wars from starting because it acts as a deterrance factor. The only thing required for MAD to work is for each side to BELIEVE that the other side has the ability to wipe them out. In fact if a nation did away with their nuclear arms altogether, but the other side didn't know that, MAD would still work as a deterrance factor.

    That's what makes OC'ing such a valuable asset to the entire community.
    You are mostly wrong. There are a number of stories of criminals holding up a store with a cop behind them in line or outside or in the store somehwere. Criminals are pretty stupid. You can't count on them to notice your firearm. That is why you MUST practice and become proficient with your weapon.
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
    Find businesses that are pro gun and those that aren't. Support Friend or Foe by using it!

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z1P2 View Post
    Except in the case of an OC'd firearm because 90% of the usefulness of an OC'd firearm is in deterrance rather than defense. To put it bluntly, only the dumbest of criminals would still consider robbing the Taco Bell while SovereignAxe was there OC'ing. Once a criminal sees someone OC'ing they know the place is a hard target and they prefer soft targets. Even if the OC'd firearm is unloaded and the person OC'ing doesn't even have ammo for it, the OC'd firearm is able to carry out it's full use as a deterrant. It only loses it's usefulness as a defense mechansim. However, if the weapon does it's job effectively as a deterrant, then there is no need to use it in defense.

    To put this in different terms, mutally assured destruction (MAD) prevents wars from starting because it acts as a deterrance factor. The only thing required for MAD to work is for each side to BELIEVE that the other side has the ability to wipe them out. In fact if a nation did away with their nuclear arms altogether, but the other side didn't know that, MAD would still work as a deterrance factor.

    That's what makes OC'ing such a valuable asset to the entire community.
    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    You are mostly wrong. There are a number of stories of criminals holding up a store with a cop behind them in line or outside or in the store somehwere. Criminals are pretty stupid. You can't count on them to notice your firearm. That is why you MUST practice and become proficient with your weapon.
    I hate to admit it, but my OCing that night would have done zilch for deterrent. I'm a lefty and carry at about 8 o'clock. With the exception of me filling my drink, in which the entrance was to my rear, when I was ordering and waiting for my food the entrance to the store was to my right. Anyone coming in would never have seen it.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    You are mostly wrong. There are a number of stories of criminals holding up a store with a cop behind them in line or outside or in the store somehwere. Criminals are pretty stupid. You can't count on them to notice your firearm. That is why you MUST practice and become proficient with your weapon.
    For every one of those stories, there are 10 other cases where criminals did notice and decided not to comit a crime, but most of those stories never get told because nothing happened, and that's the point.

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    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z1P2 View Post
    For every one of those stories, there are 10 other cases where criminals did notice and decided not to comit a crime, but most of those stories never get told because nothing happened, and that's the point.
    No, the point is that you are carrying a firearm at your side with no real training in how to use it. You would be similarly served if you put an airsoft handgun in a holster and stuck that to your belt if all you are looking for is hip visibility deterrence. If, however, you are wanting deterrence as well as protection for yourself, your family, and others, learn to fricking shoot before you carry the firearm anywhere.

    Seriously, the OC community does NOT need a headline that reads: "Open Carrier carries firearm, but refuses to learn to use it."
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    No, the point is that you are carrying a firearm at your side with no real training in how to use it. You would be similarly served if you put an airsoft handgun in a holster and stuck that to your belt if all you are looking for is hip visibility deterrence. If, however, you are wanting deterrence as well as protection for yourself, your family, and others, learn to fricking shoot before you carry the firearm anywhere.

    Seriously, the OC community does NOT need a headline that reads: "Open Carrier carries firearm, but refuses to learn to use it."
    Ok, NOBODY is suggesting walking around without any training and practice in using a firearm, so please don't put such idiotic words in my mouth. The point I am making is that with open carry a person is less likely to need to use the weapon in self defense than concealed carry because of the deterrance factor... and for the deterance factor it's not even necessary for the firearm to be loaded, it only needs to be visible. That's ALL I'm saying... I'm NOT suggesting not knowing how to use it or carrying a useless firearm, or anything of the sort.

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    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    Sorry, you said that 90% of the reason to openly carry is for deterrence rather than defense, in response to someone speaking about practicing with a firearm and that a tool is useless unless you know how to use it. The way you responded made it seem clear that you dismissed the notion that a firearm is not useless if you do not know how to use it because 90% of a firearm's job is apparently deterrence through open carry. At least, that is how I read it (and still read it.)
    One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796.
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
    Find businesses that are pro gun and those that aren't. Support Friend or Foe by using it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verd View Post
    Sorry, you said that 90% of the reason to openly carry is for deterrence rather than defense, in response to someone speaking about practicing with a firearm and that a tool is useless unless you know how to use it. The way you responded made it seem clear that you dismissed the notion that a firearm is not useless if you do not know how to use it because 90% of a firearm's job is apparently deterrence through open carry. At least, that is how I read it (and still read it.)
    Verd, please try to understand that there's a big difference between a firearm being totally useless and a firearm being useless for defense only. Let me try to rephrase it in a way that might make better sense to you... if you open carry instead of concealed carry criminals that otherwise might have tried to pull something will be deterred from trying to pull something after seeing the firearm being open carried, so nothing happens... and when nothing happens you don't need to pull your firearm, and when you don't pull your firearm you don't need to know how to shoot accurately with it... because the firearm stayed in it's holster because nothing happened and while that's more common than when something happens, it's extremely rare for nothing happening to be newsworthy because it has to be obvious that something would have happened otherwise which most of the time it's not obvious enough to be newsworthy.

    The other 1 out of 10 times when criminals would have tried something they will still try something, whether because they don't see you open carrying or because they are stupid... and then in those cases the firearm does in fact leave the holster and it's absolutely critical to know how to shoot accurately and use that tool because in those situations the firearm is being used for defense in a life or death situation rather than to deter that situation from coming up in the first place.

    NOW do you understand how a firearm that remains in it's holster is still useful for deterrance?

    To put it another way, just answer the question: Why open carry instead of concealed carry?
    Last edited by Z1P2; 01-27-2012 at 07:02 PM.

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    Regular Member HvyMtl's Avatar
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    Um. Back and forth. Off topic, and well, I know its pretty darn hard to know what the other poster meant, when I read what he/she/it typed.

    Yes, OC is a deterrent a strong one, and knowing how to use the firearm, makes sure it is useful when the deterrence does not work.

    Honestly, I posted about training, because I just want you safe and more confident in carrying. And heck, I do not even know you, and I still want you safe and carrying safely. That is all.

    Back on topic: I suggest going to a few places with it. Places you normally go, where the people "know" you already. Like your favorite diner, or your grocery store, or your favorite hardware store. It helps with the nerves, cause you already know these people, and they are more likely to talk to you, even when carrying.
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    Regular Member .40S&W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z1P2 View Post
    Verd, please try to understand that there's a big difference between a firearm being totally useless and a firearm being useless for defense only. Let me try to rephrase it in a way that might make better sense to you... if you open carry instead of concealed carry criminals that otherwise might have tried to pull something will be deterred from trying to pull something after seeing the firearm being open carried, so nothing happens... and when nothing happens you don't need to pull your firearm, and when you don't pull your firearm you don't need to know how to shoot accurately with it... because the firearm stayed in it's holster because nothing happened and while that's more common than when something happens, it's extremely rare for nothing happening to be newsworthy because it has to be obvious that something would have happened otherwise which most of the time it's not obvious enough to be newsworthy.

    The other 1 out of 10 times when criminals would have tried something they will still try something, whether because they don't see you open carrying or because they are stupid... and then in those cases the firearm does in fact leave the holster and it's absolutely critical to know how to shoot accurately and use that tool because in those situations the firearm is being used for defense in a life or death situation rather than to deter that situation from coming up in the first place.

    NOW do you understand how a firearm that remains in it's holster is still useful for deterrance?

    To put it another way, just answer the question: Why open carry instead of concealed carry?
    This.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HvyMtl View Post
    Honestly, I posted about training, because I just want you safe and more confident in carrying. And heck, I do not even know you, and I still want you safe and carrying safely. That is all.
    That doesn't bother me at all, I just didn't want to be misunderstood. As far as training goes, I'm a former Marine, so I LOVE training.

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Z1P2 View Post
    Except in the case of an OC'd firearm because 90% of the usefulness of an OC'd firearm is in deterrance rather than defense. To put it bluntly, only the dumbest of criminals would still consider robbing the Taco Bell while SovereignAxe was there OC'ing. Once a criminal sees someone OC'ing they know the place is a hard target and they prefer soft targets. Even if the OC'd firearm is unloaded and the person OC'ing doesn't even have ammo for it, the OC'd firearm is able to carry out it's full use as a deterrant. It only loses it's usefulness as a defense mechansim. However, if the weapon does it's job effectively as a deterrant, then there is no need to use it in defense.

    To put this in different terms, mutally assured destruction (MAD) prevents wars from starting because it acts as a deterrance factor. The only thing required for MAD to work is for each side to BELIEVE that the other side has the ability to wipe them out. In fact if a nation did away with their nuclear arms altogether, but the other side didn't know that, MAD would still work as a deterrance factor.

    That's what makes OC'ing such a valuable asset to the entire community.
    Thanks for sharing your insightful and thought-provoking remarks with us.

    I don't think I've ever heard this subject presented any better than you just did.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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    5A repost
    Last edited by Keith Cromm; 02-16-2012 at 09:10 AM.
    I open carry because if a bad guy attacks me anyway, I am best prepared to respond appropriately, with minimal fuss, and my bearing of a firearm is not infringed by having to lift my shirt, pull back my jacket, or unzip some pouch. Forcing people to carry concealed is an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.

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