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Thread: Happy day!

  1. #1
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Happy day!

    My church had our leadership council meeting today and the topic of posting a no carry sign was brought up. I sit on the council and reminded everyone that license holders are not the people we need to worry about, its the criminals who are not deterred in the least by a little sign on the door. I informed everyone about the background checks and training involved in the process and lack of problems in other states. I also told them that if a sign goes up, I would have to leave the church. It was quickly decided not to post. God is good.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  2. #2
    McX
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    Congrats guy! Jesus loves you more than me. we all know what my Church did to me. Since then God and i havent been on speaking terms much.

  3. #3
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    One of the people attending the Muskego Chamber of Commerce breakfast event Friday was a pastor (didn't ask what church, he didn't tell) and he was all in favor of armed parishoners.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Danger can occur anywhere, anytime

    http://www.cityofmadison.com/inciden...l.cfm?id=12710
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

  5. #5
    Regular Member PQ36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    My church had our leadership council meeting today and the topic of posting a no carry sign was brought up. I sit on the council and reminded everyone that license holders are not the people we need to worry about, its the criminals who are not deterred in the least by a little sign on the door. I informed everyone about the background checks and training involved in the process and lack of problems in other states. I also told them that if a sign goes up, I would have to leave the church. It was quickly decided not to post. God is good.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0GwUwR3nc

    Amen. God IS good. He gave us THE way out of this mess, while also providing for us during our brief stay here (James 4:14 ... a little time...)
    Without an Author of life, no rational basis for self defense exists. Glad to hear good report.

    I am not part of governing board at church, but have forwarded reading material to some who are more in touch with issues, and can influence decisions for the sake of sanity.

    Harpadzo, coming soon!


    Ps: Any location/city/denomination info? Keeping track somewhat for potential discussions with church.

  6. #6
    Regular Member PQ36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    One of the people attending the Muskego Chamber of Commerce breakfast event Friday was a pastor (didn't ask what church, he didn't tell) and he was all in favor of armed parishoners.
    ....armed parishioners. "pictured" as being mis-read by libs/antis as "...armed p'risoners" lol

    The falling away is/will be big, but not total. Glad to hear of right thinking pastors still out there!

  7. #7
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PQ36 View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0GwUwR3nc

    Amen. God IS good. He gave us THE way out of this mess, while also providing for us during our brief stay here (James 4:14 ... a little time...)
    Without an Author of life, no rational basis for self defense exists. Glad to hear good report.

    I am not part of governing board at church, but have forwarded reading material to some who are more in touch with issues, and can influence decisions for the sake of sanity.

    Harpadzo, coming soon!


    Ps: Any location/city/denomination info? Keeping track somewhat for potential discussions with church.
    Kenosha, Conservative Baptist.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  8. #8
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    Congrats guy! Jesus loves you more than me. we all know what my Church did to me. Since then God and i havent been on speaking terms much.
    Your problem is with men, not God. There is a church for you if you keep looking.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  9. #9
    Regular Member PQ36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oak1971 View Post
    Your problem is with men, not God. There is a church for you if you keep looking.
    True. We are called to be discerning, and that requires study/effort to peg the counterfeit stuff. Biblical churches are becoming rare, and require some hunting now days.

    RKBA is one pons asinorum, if not nearly a litmus test. Free speech as well. Censorship is becoming more the norm.

    Study to show thyself approved, a workman not ashamed.

    Stay armed.

    Stay safe.


    .......snip: Kenosha, Conservative Baptist.
    Roger that. Thanks Oak

    As things develop (or don't) up here, I'll keep ya posted

  10. #10
    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    "God is good"

    All the time.

  11. #11
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    Congrats guy! Jesus loves you more than me. we all know what my Church did to me. Since then God and i haven't been on speaking terms much.
    McX, I do not know the details, but if it was your "church" that offended you, why are you no longer on speaking terms with God? A spiritual lifestyle is less a function of what building you go into to speak to God than it is how you speak to God in your heart, whether with others or by yourself. God does not live in buildings, he lives in the hearts of those who believe in Him.

    Keep in mind that no matter what your church says, Jesus said, as He prepared the way for his disciples after He was to leave them, that if they did not have a sword (gun), they were to sell their cloak and buy a sword (gun). If your pastor doesn't "get it", then I echo the advice of an earlier post that suggested that you shop for a church that does "get it".

    I thank my Creator every day for the firearms skills He has allowed me to learn and also for the honor of teaching others those skills so that they can fulfill His will and protect themselves, their families, and others from the predatory nature of those who do not embrace the Will of God.

    Yellow Cat Out -
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
    "Permission Slips" from Utah, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Arizona, and Florida. _ Verily, thou shalt not fiddle with thine firearm whilst in the bathroom stall, lest thine spouse seek condolences from thine friends.

  12. #12
    McX
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    too bad StarBucks doesnt have a local Church. Guns, coffee, and God- works for me.

  13. #13
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    too bad StarBucks doesnt have a local Church. Guns, coffee, and God- works for me.
    We have coffee in fellowship hall, free food too.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Way to go OP!

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    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    Coffee, juice, milk, donuts, and muffins!

    Being a fib i can not cc or even oc. However our previous pastor and i had an understanding. I was allowed to carry there.

  16. #16
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Hang in there, Flatland will get carry someday. Faster if you kick Chicago out of the state.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  17. #17
    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    I spent 6 years in milwaukee. Honestly, if tennessee doesn't work out i will consider wisconsin too.

  18. #18
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    I spent 6 years in milwaukee. Honestly, if tennessee doesn't work out i will consider wisconsin too.
    If I could vote Milwaukee, Madistan, Eau Clare and Lacrosse off the island this would be Paradise. That and turn the thermostat up a notch.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PQ36
    Without an Author of life, no rational basis for self defense exists.
    'Splain, please?
    Animals act in self-defense even if they don't have the higher brain function to conceive of anything beyond their basic physical needs.

    Self-defense is one more step in perpetuating the species, spreading a particular set of genes.
    If I die, there's no chance my genes will be passed on.
    [Doesn't actually apply to me, but more of a generic individual creature.]

    Are there species other than humans that live beyond their breeding years? If we're the oddity, then the above makes perfect sense for everything except us, and actually even for us too, before modern medicine & sanitation.
    Not too many hundreds of years ago, I'd be considered old & Jim would be ancient.

    Quote Originally Posted by McX
    too bad StarBucks doesnt have a local Church. Guns, coffee, and God- works for me.
    So are you coming to "services" tomorrow afternoon?
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpm84092 View Post
    McX, I do not know the details, but if it was your "church" that offended you, why are you no longer on speaking terms with God? A spiritual lifestyle is less a function of what building you go into to speak to God than it is how you speak to God in your heart, whether with others or by yourself. God does not live in buildings, he lives in the hearts of those who believe in Him.

    Keep in mind that no matter what your church says, Jesus said, as He prepared the way for his disciples after He was to leave them, that if they did not have a sword (gun), they were to sell their cloak and buy a sword (gun). If your pastor doesn't "get it", then I echo the advice of an earlier post that suggested that you shop for a church that does "get it".

    I thank my Creator every day for the firearms skills He has allowed me to learn and also for the honor of teaching others those skills so that they can fulfill His will and protect themselves, their families, and others from the predatory nature of those who do not embrace the Will of God.

    Yellow Cat Out -
    +1000... I talk to God (pray) all the time and I go to church maybe 6 times a year. We (God and I) have some of our best conversations when I am in the outdoors... then it is just him and me....

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 12-04-2011 at 04:41 PM.
    "On the Plains of Hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions who, at the Dawn of Victory, sat down to wait - and waiting, died."

    George Cecil (18911970) American advertising copywriter

    Outdoorsman1
    Member: Wisconsin Carry Inc.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    'Splain, please?
    Animals act in self-defense even if they don't have the higher brain function to conceive of anything beyond their basic physical needs.

    God made all the animals.

  22. #22
    Regular Member PQ36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PQ36
    Without an Author of life, no rational basis for self defense exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    'Splain, please?
    When we bore down through all the chaff/distractions/variations of world views or paradigms, we are left with two, and only two "explanations".
    One being the meta narrative of a creator/designer, revealed through creation (general revelation) and scripture (special revelation).
    The other view being that of "evolution", where the idea is posited that everything came from nothing for no particular reason ( a singularity did it)

    No matter how many ways it is presented or colored or whatever, all views boil down to fitting one or the other of these.

    Given that, we have the view that the creator God gives us life, it is of value, precious, and in His image (albeit fallen/tainted), and therefore deserves to be preserved, protected and defended.

    On the other hand, if we evolved from pond scum (or whatever pre-existant material you choose), then there is really no rational basis for a definition of right vs wrong, or good vs evil, since in this model, might makes right, at it's core. I'll refer one to world history to see the long list of despots who have operated under this model. It is also seen manifested in examples such as the Canton, OH, PD, where "officer" Harless repeatedly threatens a citizen with murder, claiming multiple times that he (citizen) is a "stupid/filthy/etc human", implying that the officer has swallowed the kool-aid and thinks he is evolved to a higher level, or caste, or whatever (very very common theme these days, in oppression, that one person or group is "evolved" higher than other(s) )

    Summary:
    IF there is a creator, then life should be defended. We are accountable to Him. It is part of our stewardship of life, liberty, property.

    IF there is no creator, then man looks to man for definitions of right/wrong, good/evil, etc, and the biggest muscles, or guns, or armies, wins. With this model, there is no accountability (big error!), and no stewardship, rationale (key point) basis. The only basis is human might. You could be a tender soul who wouldn't hurt a flea, and Thadeus Thug can show up to rape, rob, and pillage you, and according to "no creator" model, the thug is "right" to do so, as there is no value ascribed to life by this model/view. (we can only say this thug is "wrong" if there is a law giver that transcends this world IE: not limited or subject or confined to this space and time we are in)

    In fact, in the evolution model, (blows my mind) death equals life by virtue of the claim that through a stochastic process (yes, a big oxymoron), somehow a ton of pain/struggle/death gave life to bigger/better us.


    Animals act in self-defense even if they don't have the higher brain function to conceive of anything beyond their basic physical needs.
    Animals indeed act defensively, and just the study of the plethora of tactics/abilities built in to them is amazing. From camouflage (passive) of frogs to fish to you name it, to chemical machine guns (active!) of the bombardier beetle, to the horns on a bull (passive, until he gets active with you!) God designed into the animal world these abilities, knowing they would be needed, post fall - post curse. It shows His providence, even in light of the struggles.


    Self-defense is one more step in perpetuating the species, spreading a particular set of genes.
    Questions come to mind like, why are there pacifists still around? Why are we not all Supermen and Superwomen? Why have we not "evolved" past all the travailing in pain that the creation is groaning with, if we have only been passing on "superior" genes all these years? (be sure to watch the youtube clip linked at bottom, regarding "genes").

    If I die, there's no chance my genes will be passed on.
    Now you don't KNOW that. Someone may donate your clothes to goodwill or some other place, and voila! Oh? You mean the other kind

    [Doesn't actually apply to me, but more of a generic individual creature.]
    I think you saying you have no kiddos, and mean in overall sense, the propagation of people.
    Provokes these Questions: Can an individual be generic? (think of all the billions of people, and how unique we all are?) A creature requires a creator, does it not? Etymology itself is an amazing subject, pointing back to one main language, "once upon a time". Linguists tend to not point to Adam and Eve, if they are evolutionists, but the fact remains that Etymology is an arrow pointing in that direction.

    Are there species other than humans that live beyond their breeding years? If we're the oddity, then the above makes perfect sense for everything except us, and actually even for us too, before modern medicine & sanitation.
    Living beyond breeding years.... hmmm....Not sure what that might demonstrate, as "living beyond" is pretty subjective. How far beyond? Some/many perish without pro-creating, some soon after, some later, some...... etc.

    Before modern medicine and sanitation? Ugh, don't get me started on Big Pharma and Big Agra and all the other ways we poison ourselves with "better living through chemicals" (is that the slogan?) Just recently heard some interesting details regarding Levitical dietary laws and life spans / mortality rates of Jewish peoples who kept and those who didn't keep the diet. More than can be covered here. Advise if interested in more info.

    Not too many hundreds of years ago, I'd be considered old & Jim would be ancient.
    Not too many thousands of years ago, we would all be considered babes. Look at the Genesis chapter five life spans (antediluvian)


    Summarizing:
    In Aristotelian Law, we observe the law of the excluded middle, and the law of non contradiction. We make note of this in the taxonomic sense, giving credit to Aristotle, IOW, gravity is not true because of Newton, he simply observed/noted truth/reality, and we refer to Newtonian Laws of physics.

    The point is that we can't have creation and evolution ( a law giver and no law giver). It is an either/or, not both/and situation. The law of the excluded middle and the law of non contradiction apply here. We can apply the steps of scientific inquiry to creation itself, as well as scripture.

    When we examine the evidence, actual empirical evidence, we see it pointing to a creator rather than to a big bang. A person may not agree, but the arrow points nonetheless.

    It is only upon this assertion that God created life, that we can have a basis, a rational basis, for an argument for defense of self - defense of life of self.

    If not, then might makes right, and the world is dominated by a "sucks to be you" mentality that breeds death and destruction, as history plainly, and all to painfully points out.

    All of this to say that if a church prohibits self defense by it's members/attendees, then that is a form of hypocrisy on a grand scale. Or it is not a "church" that defends the value of life. It is ignoring the reality of this fallen world.

    Even though Peter walked daily with the Lord (can you think of a better body guard!), Peter "open carried" without admonition from Jesus (notwithstanding "put up thy sword into the sheath" given the time appointed for the fulfillment of that prophetic element). We are to deal with things as they are, not how we "wish them to be". The world is a dangerous, fallen, mess of a place, despite the beauty that still exist ( It is a mixture of good and evil)

    This treatise started with " 'splain, please ", and I hope I have not gone too long in the tooth for your question! It is tough to truncate such a fascinating and rewarding subject!

    The crux of the answer is predicated on the aspect of rationality. It must be rational. It must be reasonable.

    Come, let us reason together... Isaiah 1:18.

    A "church" that says you must be a dis-armed victim any time you are here, is a "church" that is not giving heed to the reality of the fall (doctrinal error) I don't "do" irrational fear. No thanks.

    IF MY CHURCH WANTS TO DISARM ME, I WILL EXERCISE MY LIBERTY IN CHRIST TO WORSHIP ELSEWHERE!

    Clarifying questions welcome.

    ONE LAST THING..... Paul, why can't I be as succinct as you? (brevity as the soul of wit? ugh)

    A "must watch" tib-bit. Truly mind-boggling....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdBJt...feature=relmfu

  23. #23
    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    God made all the animals.
    Ding! Winner!
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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