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Thread: Carrying inside buildings in Yorktown

  1. #1
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Carrying inside buildings in Yorktown

    I was asked not to carry inside one of the buildings in Yorktown. I was told by the manager of that building that carrying there was tantamount to carrying in a NPS building where government employees (like park rangers) also work. Are all buildings in the town of Yorktown owned by the U. S. Government? I've never had a problem until recently. I looked on the York County web site to see who owned the building and the plot of land is indeed owned by "USA". The building was constructed in 1986. I thought it was built with funds from the county, state, public and private donations.

    Does it matter who paid to build it if it still stands on "U. S. Property"?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  2. #2
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Was it posted?

  3. #3
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    None of the buildings there are posted. The whole area is a historical area. Many of the buildings are owned by the National Park Service, but I don't think this one is (even though the building manager told me it was).

    You really have to know the area to understand the situation there.
    Last edited by MSC 45ACP; 12-03-2011 at 04:13 PM. Reason: misspelling
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Interesting question!

    Ownership is everything, that said....

    All NPS buildings that are off limits have to be posted.
    From the NPS site:
    http://www.nps.gov/nero/firearms/VA/index.htm
    Virginia Firearms Law

    The law governing possession of firearms inside a national park changed on February 22, 2010. Visitors may possess firearms within a national park unit provided they comply with federal, state, and local laws.

    Please remember that federal law prohibits firearms in certain park facilities and buildings. These places are marked with signs at public entrances.
    So if this particular building is owned by the NPS, it has to be marked to be off limits.

    I'm not sure about other buildings like the post office. Most seem to have a posting somewhere but I'm not certain if they require one to be off limits.

    You should check and see what US Department owns the building, then take it from there.

    FWIW, most of Yorktown is NPS.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-03-2011 at 04:49 PM.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I was told by the manager of that building that carrying there was tantamount to carrying in a NPS building where government employees (like park rangers) also work.
    It does not work that way. It's either fish or it is fowl. In other words, it's either a building where federal employees work or it is not. As already mentioned, if it is it must be posted.

    To help us help you, please identify the building and what purpose it serves (what agency(ies)/offices/etc.).

    To give you some idea of how crazy things can get, the gift shop/snack bar at Great Meadow in Skyline Drive NP is not a government office and therefore cannot be restricted per the regs about carry in NPS. It is private property rented and operated by a consessionaire. There is (or was) one hallway that is blocked off from public access and has a seperate pitside entrance - this hallway has some office space the consessionaire has allowed NPS staff to use as a convenience to both parties. That hallway is a no-carry zone.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  6. #6
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    The building is at 202 Church St. in Yorktown. It is occupied by the Fifes & Drums of York Town. I was approached by the President of the organization after another parent tried to tell my spousal unit I couldn't carry in the building "for the children". I ignored her and a couple months later, the president approached me and politely asked me not to carry inside and then told me about this "conversation" with an NPS Park Ranger. I'm beginning to wonder if this conversation ever took place or if it was made up as an excuse to get me to stop carrying inside? I think I'll go visit the NPS Park Ranger office and ask them in person the regs about the F & D building.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    According to their website http://www.fifes-and-drums.org/ they were "founded" by the County of York and are now
    funded in part by the generous support of the York County Arts Commission, The Virginia Commission for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Arts and by individual donors who are interested in preserving our American heritage.
    Their membership info, including releases necessary for partiucipation in performances, is restricted to members only but my guess is those documents will show it is a private, non-governmental, organization.

    If they want to ask you not to carry it seems they can as private property owners. However, doing so seems to be completely counter to the values they claim to be memorializing.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    The "Members Only" section only has info about advancement and the roster of all members. I know because I have access. I couldn't find out any other info from the site that I didn't already know. Thank you for looking, though. Its often good to have a fresh set of eyes to look over the same stuff you've already spent countless hours and days searching. I'll get with the NPS and the guy that designed and planned the new building to find out specifics.

    Exactly WHAT specifics am I looking for? It isn't really a "private" organization.
    What magic buzzwords make it legal (or illegal) to carry inside the building?
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Start with these documents in the "Members" section:
    Performance Information

    Those releases and other membership forms will indicate if the organization is private or public, and if public either County, State or Federal. See who is protected by waivers or releases - is it York County, the Commonwealth, the NPS or The Fifes and Drums of Yorktown (Inc/Ltd/whatever).

    As for your comment "It isn't really a "private" organization" - it's either private or public as there's nothing in-between. Organizations referred to as "quasi-public" or "semi-public" are neither. Perhaps the best way to determine status is to see how the folks in charge are selected/appointed - if the government does not appoint them or they do not stand for public election on the same day as other local/state elections the organization is not public. The only other thing you might be able to do to show they are public as opposed to private is to document that the bulk of their funding and the control of their operation are controlled by the government (local, state, or federal).

    According to the SCC site https://sccefile.scc.virginia.gov/Bu...itySearch.aspx they are not incorporated. You can stop in at their office and ask to see their business license, get their tax ID number, and see other paperwork showing their status as a charity, philathropy, museum or whatever it is they call themselves. They do not seem to have any direct connection to the York County government, per the County's website.

    As for "What magic buzzwords make it legal (or illegal) to carry inside the building? " - if they are not a local government agency/board/commission/etc. but private the magic is that they can control behavior on their property pretty much the same as you control it on your property. If they are "open to the public" they are limited in that control so far as not being able to discriminate on the entrance/ accomodation of protected classes, but that's pretty much it.
    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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