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Question for a LEO...

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
Wasn't talking to ya'....but looks like your grubby little cartoon character is talking to me.

When are you going to start ignoring me?

GRUBBY!?!?!? DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THIS TOOK ME TO MAKE IN THAT KNOCK OFF PHOTOSHOP PROGRAM!?!?!?! (called gimp)

I can't ignore you, every time a thread starts up the next response to it is from MilProGuy thanking that person for owning a computer, breathing, being a live. lol

Thanks for posting a thread on OCDO
I appreciate you making an account and posting a thread on OCDO
Thanks for clicking the submit button
Thank you for utilizing an internet forum amongst the other things you do with your computer
 

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
:)

Nevermind the fact that the---does knuclehead have one or two "k"s? Oh, forget it. I'll just start over.

Nevermind the fact that MilProGuy actually wants input and advice from cops? Of all the possible wrong sources of information, he wants to hear from cops. And, you just know its not because he wants to catch cops making anti-rights, trust-the-government comments. Not with his solid track record of promoting statism.

It is spelled "knucklehead".

I wasn't asking for input from LEOs...the OP was.

Check the title of the thread, knucklehead! :lol:
 

MilProGuy

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
1,210
Location
Mississippi
GRUBBY!?!?!? DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THIS TOOK ME TO MAKE IN THAT KNOCK OFF PHOTOSHOP PROGRAM!?!?!?! (called gimp)

I can't ignore you, every time a thread starts up the next response to it is from MilProGuy thanking that person for owning a computer, breathing, being a live. lol

Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt "gimps" feelings.

I'm a "gimp" too, but a very THANKFUL one, as you have so aptly noted. :lol::dude::D


In closing, I'd like to thank you for being so kind as to respond to my post. :banana:


You'll never know how much I appreciate your doing so. :monkey
 
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papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
Massad Ayoob is one of the featured writers for one of my favorite magazines "backwoods home". i just read a blog that he had done on what to do after the shot. sorry i could not find it. but he does have a couple of books and several articles on the subject if you would like goto http://www.backwoodshome.com/ and check out some of his articles. also i would recommend John sylveria too
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
Ayoob is a very knowledgable guy, and a good writer, but he's a former cop and a consultant who gets significant income from in-the-law-enforcement-community-system organizations and people. He is not, repeat, NOT, an attorney. He has no interest in helping you get a fair trial for yourself, he's interested in the system and how the system works. As such he tends to spout idealistic platitudes assuming that the system works as it is supposed to ("You can trust the police; the policeman is your friend.") and has never worked "in the trenches" as a criminal defense attorney. I'm sure he's a nice, and respectable guy, but his perspective is not the same as mine.

Find a really good lawyer ("Some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average" -- Dan Hawes, from the Deadly Force Seminar) and pay that person some money for real information appropriate to your circumstances and location.
 

RetiredOC

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
1,561
In closing, I'd like to thank you for being so kind as to respond to my post. :banana:


You'll never know how much I appreciate your doing so. :monkey


thkeyboardsmash.gif
 

Johnburns15

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
154
Location
Lexington, ky
I'm just speaking from experience here. November 20, 2011 I was At a gas station. Next thing I know, I hear the dreaded words "everyone on the floor this is a stickup".
At the time I had my firearm, so I stead if getting on the ground, I drew my weapon, switched the safety off, rounded the corner with the assailant in my sights. I proceeded to tell him to drop his weapon and he turned toward me. In response I put 2 in his right shoulder causing him to drop his firearm. I unloaded his, placed the mag and ammo in my pocket and his weapon behind my back. The owner called the police while I called my lawyer. My lawyer arrived 2 minutes after officers but told me to say no more then "there was a robbery, peoples lives including mine were at risk, so I did what I had to save lives" he told me not to say anything like "I shot him, I stopped that bastard, or anything that could be considered as hostile actions"
After the incident I was not arrested, did not even have to appear in court (as the assailants lawyer decided I did the best I could in the situation by not killing his client).

Moral of my story, contact your lawyer as soon as possible without saying anything to officers that could be used against you.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Good advice, except I would leave out the "and shot him" part and simply state that you defended yourself. A BG with one or more gunshot wounds is self evident.

I wouldn't even say that I defended myself. The most important thing to say is that I was attacked and feared for my life (or the lives of others). I wouldn't relate anything that I did--or the details of the attack beyond it making me fear for my life.
 

John Canuck

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
Messages
275
Location
Upstate SC
In case anyone is interested it's MN statute 609.662. There is an out for that, Subd. 4 has an affirmative defense clause that says if by preponderance of the evidence the defendant reasonably believes that rendering aid may cause significant risk or bodily harm than you don't have to check.
Notice that that's a DEFENSE which means you can attempt to use it in court once you've been charged for not rendering aid.

*** Sorry for the thread hijack ***

Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

Isn't calling for assistance from 911 sufficient?


Definition. As used in this section, "reasonable assistance" means aid appropriate to the circumstances, and includes obtaining or attempting to obtain assistance from a conservation or law enforcement officer, or from medical personnel.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.662
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
It is spelled "knucklehead".

I wasn't asking for input from LEOs...the OP was.

Check the title of the thread, knucklehead! :lol:

I didn't say you asked for input from LEOs. To assert that I did, and then argue against the assertion is known as a strawman argument.

Check the post, knucklehead. Then, look up the definition of strawman argument. (no smiley)
 

John Canuck

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
Messages
275
Location
Upstate SC
Good point. However, my attorney advises me to use those magic words 'I defended myself' here in Charleston specifically and in South Carolina in general. I'll ask him about your recommendation and get back to you.

It seems obvious on one hand that you defended yourself when a downed BG should make that quite clear without explanation. Then again the obvious is not always obvious to LE.

I'm interested in what he says as well. I'm still looking for an attorney in the upstate.

I think the point was that claiming self defense is an affirmative defense and requires you to admit you committed homicide. I think many feel that admission is best handled by your attorney. Now I'm not an lawyer, so I'm relating what I think others have opined on this.
 

VW_Factor

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
1,092
Location
Leesburg, GA
Ayoob is a very knowledgable guy, and a good writer, but he's a former cop and a consultant who gets significant income from in-the-law-enforcement-community-system organizations and people. He is not, repeat, NOT, an attorney. He has no interest in helping you get a fair trial for yourself, he's interested in the system and how the system works. As such he tends to spout idealistic platitudes assuming that the system works as it is supposed to ("You can trust the police; the policeman is your friend.") and has never worked "in the trenches" as a criminal defense attorney. I'm sure he's a nice, and respectable guy, but his perspective is not the same as mine.

Find a really good lawyer ("Some are really good, some are really bad, and most are average" -- Dan Hawes, from the Deadly Force Seminar) and pay that person some money for real information appropriate to your circumstances and location.

I feel he wants all the police to treat us as "the good guy" in whatever scenario you may encounter with the police. It is very idealistic, and he also is likely trying to play the part of ambassador. Which really is not bad in the slightest by itself, however in the real world, where everyone thinks, acts, responds differently to situations it will not ever always be "the policeman is your friend".

You can try your best to be on their good side of sorts, but the best thing is as you mention. Keep your mouth shut and be ready to be on the legal defensive.
 

Marco

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
3,905
Location
Greene County
Massad Ayoob

There is a fella named Massad Ayoob who has some ideas on how to handle such a situation. He's a retired police captain who has been teaching armed self-defense to citizens for many years.




Why are Open carry Advocates referencing someone that:
Advocates mandatory uniform licensing for handgun owners who want to carry a firearm in public.
His proposal includes eyesight, written and skills tests that would be administered much like state-by-state driving tests.

Ayoob, whose writings include "The Eight Dangerous Myths of Self-Defense," is quick to stand his ground.

"To the gun owners who say this abridges their rights, I say, `No, this is the best way to guarantee your rights,' " he insists.

And he has never fired a shot in self-defense.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-12-30/features/9412300055_1_handgun-firearms-massad-ayoob


More info for those that care to read, it isn't a love fest!
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/03/0604-03a.htm




Edit:
The other side of the coin:
http://www.thegunzone.com/ayoob/ayoob-dodson.html
 
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Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
SNIP Why are Open carry Advocates referencing someone...

Regardless of his stance on OC, he is solid on citizen self-defense.

He even came out with a neutral article on OC a while back if I recall. Was it in Combat Handguns or Handgunner? I can't recall anymore.

I don't recommend regarding his work as holy writ. He seems a bit alarmist to me. And, his views on gun ownership are, I am sure, skewed by his police affiliation. Yet, his stuff is not without value.

Take the fruit and spit out the pits.
 
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