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Thread: "Guns on campus" Point/Counterpoint, Roanoke Times. COMMENTS NEEDED!

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    "Guns on campus" Point/Counterpoint, Roanoke Times. COMMENTS NEEDED!

    http://blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/...comment-125263


    Colin Goddard:


    "Since getting shot almost 5 years ago at Virginia Tech, I’ve heard this line quite often: “If just one student at Virginia Tech would have been carrying a gun on April16, 2007, people’s lives would have been saved.” I could not even understand what was happening until that first bullet hit above my knee, so the certainty of the above statement is difficult to grasp.It’s easy to think “yes” when you’re calmly reading the newspaper, imagining hypothetical scenarios in your head, but it’s entirely different when you’re in the most stressful situation of your life."
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    I'm not a Virginian, but I certainly will enjoy reading the points and counter-points that your thread will elicit from our members.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 12-04-2011 at 11:35 PM. Reason: deleted unnecessary word
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Classic anti-gun dialog:

    Us: Facts presented in a logical, coherent manner.

    Them: AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

    Us: More facts presented in a logical, coherent manner.

    Them: AARRRGGGHHH!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING AND THE WORLD WILL END!!!!


    Typical. It's a wonder they don't simply get bored and go home.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    The fact that Mr. Goddard's Situational Awareness is so deficient that he didn't even know what gunfire sounded like or meant until he was hit with a bullet should automatically discount ANYTHING he has to say on the matter. He is such a clueless, unaware sheeple that his discernment, logic, self-preservation instinct and problem-solving abilities are barely quantifiable as being in the functional human range...

    I pity him.

    And I pray that he will will see the error of his ways before he is ultimately judged by whatever deity he believes in, for his treasonous, treacherous, Liberty-hating alignment with the Brady Campaign.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I pity him.

    .
    Well.....I don't Dreamer and my comments wouldn't reflect well on the gun community, so I'll leave it to more diplomatic people.

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    As a heads up, they are moderating comments on that story. I submitted one this morning from a browser on my Windows machine, and when I pulled up the story to check on it in my Linux VM (different IP), my comment wasn't there. When I pull it back up in the original browser, it is. It's likely waiting for their "approval".
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    The fact that Mr. Goddard's Situational Awareness is so deficient that he didn't even know what gunfire sounded like or meant until he was hit with a bullet should automatically discount ANYTHING he has to say on the matter.
    Well, now seriously. Do you think everyone knows what gunfire sounds like? It doesn't sound anything like what it sounds like on TV or in movies.
    I never knew what gunfire sounded like until I went to the range as part of my basic firearms class for the first time. How would I have known? I've never fired a gun and no one ever offered to teach me or let me observe them before.

    from the article
    We are all entitled to live in a society where dangerous weapons are not allowed to be made so easily available.
    So should we stop selling steak knives and pocket knives at the grocery store, Walmart, Target and 7-11? Those are dangerous weapons too.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post

    So should we stop selling steak knives and pocket knives at the grocery store, Walmart, Target and 7-11? Those are dangerous weapons too.
    Don't forget sporks. Those are dangerous.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Alyson did an EXCELLENT job of presenting her points cogently and succinctly. She also knows, obviously, what a "rebuttal" is and how to format it.

    I'm very happy to see some college graduates can think and write.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    The REAL Colin Goddard

    If nothing else, it seems Colin outed himself with his rebuttal:
    Let’s clarify some of the realities of this debate to permit loaded, concealed weapons on our college campuses:

    1. Concealed weapons would be allowed in classrooms, dormitories, science labs, hospitals, daycares, athletic events, tailgates, job interviews, and various judicial and tenure hearings located on campus.
    2. The minimum standard in place to obtain a concealed carry permit in Virginia is having an internet connection, watching a 20 minute video, answering a 15 question quiz, and mailing it away. You do not ever have to hold a firearm in your hand to be considered “trained” and “competent” to handle one loaded and concealed in public.
    3. Simultaneously, the special-interest groups lobbying for guns on campus by “licensed, trained permit holders age 21 or older” are also lobbying to drop the minimum age to 18 and remove any licensing and training from the permit process.

    The realities of this argument are dangerous and irresponsible.

    It is unrealistic to look at gun violence so narrowly. It is not isolated to our classrooms; it permeates our streets, our homes, our workplaces and even our Safeway Grocery stores. We need solutions that make all Virginians safer, whether at college or not.

    We are all entitled to live in a society where dangerous weapons are not allowed to be made so easily available.
    It certainly is clear now that Goddard is a rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth Hoplophobe.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Christian Trejbal offers a comment on "training"

    At comment #32:
    You are incorrect on at least one point. In order to receive a concealed carry permit in Virginia, one need not have hands on practice that demonstrates you are capable of operating a firearm. In 2009, the General Assembly changed the law so that passing an online course (with multiple choice exam) satisfies the competency demonstration. On can receive a concealed carry permit in Virginia without ever having touched a gun.
    It he similarly concerned about LEOs being properly trained? There is no requirement in the Code of Virginia that law enforcement be highly trained in the lawful carry and use of deadly weapons. Would he support such a law?

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    I am still confused... I read about the 'pressure cooker' that is a major university and how students have no control and no ethics and only drink massive quantities of alcohol.

    They write this about their own children. I have a degree, attended college, worked, played, drank a little bit but I am still confused by the characterization of college age adults.

    If I for once thought I had not raised my children with at least a little common sense and understanding they would not be going to college, I would send them into the military because I had failed.

    If I thought my children were only drinking then I wouldn't be paying for that waste of time.

    I am confused at what these people think of themselves or their children.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    My dad had several college degrees, I have several College degrees, I have children with college degrees, I know dad never did a lot of drinking and I never did a lot of drinking, and I am fairly sure none of my daughters did either, when we were in College. It is not that we never had a beer or two, but no drunken parties...they are expensive, and hard on grades,

    If some like Colin Goddard (awfull British sounding name don't you think?) spend all their college time drinking, then maybe they should not carry, don't you think?
    Last edited by hermannr; 12-06-2011 at 12:31 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    , but no drunken parties...
    None?

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    So should we stop selling steak knives and pocket knives at the grocery store, Walmart, Target and 7-11? Those are dangerous weapons too. [/QUOTE]

    Check the laws in the U.K. They have banned most pocket knives and the steak knives all have rounded points. That could be our future if we're not careful.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    At comment #32:


    It he similarly concerned about LEOs being properly trained? There is no requirement in the Code of Virginia that law enforcement be highly trained in the lawful carry and use of deadly weapons. Would he support such a law?
    Seems as the only "dangerous shooter" at the University of Richmond was a campus officer!

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-student-dorms

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal View Post
    Well, now seriously. Do you think everyone knows what gunfire sounds like?
    Anyone who has fired a gun would.
    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    If I for once thought I had not raised my children with at least a little common sense and understanding they would not be going to college, I would send them into the military because I had failed.
    I am struggling to see how someone morally, emotionally or psychologically unfit to attend college could benefit from military, umm, "service".
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    If some like Colin Goddard (awfull British sounding name don't you think?) spend all their college time drinking, then maybe they should not carry, don't you think?
    It's the psychological phenomenon known as "projection" and it is the most broadly identifiable argument style presented by the antis.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler-gal
    Well, now seriously. Do you think everyone knows what gunfire sounds like?
    Anyone who has fired a gun would.
    Unless I misunerstood his side of the point/counterpoint, he had never fired a gun before. So, I don't think he would have known what real gun fire sounded like. Like I said before, IMO it doesn't sound anything like TV or movies.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry

    Except that Goddard swears he has fired guns before. Even admits to owning (or having owned) guns.

    He is an a-typical anti in that he seems to truly believe that he is not "anti". He just wants to make sure our rights are well-regulated so we don't use them to freely.

    What a ****. Either he's a fargan liar (likely) or his SA is cr@p (also likely). Either way, it is sheer LUCK that he is even alive.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Except that Goddard swears he has fired guns before. Even admits to owning (or having owned) guns. He has, among other things, bought multiple firearms from multiple sellers in a single day. He at one time posted video of buying long guns after stating to the seller that he did not have ID - but he never stated he was prohibited. He just has not admitted to purchasing multiple handguns in violation of the "One Handgun a Month" law.

    He is an a-typical anti in that he seems to truly believe that he is not "anti". He just wants to make sure our rights are well-regulated so we don't use them to freely. I believe we have arrived at the truth of the matter.

    What a ****. Either he's a fargan liar (likely) or his SA is cr@p (also likely). According to his testimony his SA was quite satisfactory - he saw Cho coming and was well aware of what to expect from him. Either way, it is sheer LUCK that he is even alive.
    It may seem sardonic, but the problem is not Goddard's luck but Cho's lack of skill. That and the refusal of anybody to decide that since they were going to die/be wounded anyway they might as well try to take out the shooter on their way to their fate. Yes, it is pure speculation but other shooters have offed themselves at the first sign of resistance so it is not out of the realm of probability to think Cho might have done the same. We'll never know for sure unless a/several potential victims decide to try and resist even if it's only by swinging bookbags.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Except that Goddard swears he has fired guns before. Even admits to owning (or having owned) guns.
    ...snip..
    Heard that Colin has also admitted (claimed?) to illegally purchasing a handgun out of state on one of his "sting" operations.

    Guess it's OK to break the law when it suits your purposes...
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 230therapy's Avatar
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    I really tried to read those posts. I really, really did. I ended up getting too irritated to sit through the anti-rights morons' responses.
    Does anyone here actually believe that the Founders were sitting around in John Adams' tavern UNARMED because they believed a bar should be a gun free zone?

  23. #23
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 230therapy View Post
    I really tried to read those posts. I really, really did. I ended up getting too irritated to sit through the anti-rights morons' responses.
    me too.
    especially the one named "Sandi Saunders".
    did some digging and she's a big poster on Dan Casey's blog. what a tool.

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