wow you guys were not kidding?! dont ask LEO for advice

wow you guys were not kidding?! dont ask LEO for advice. I was driving through High Point, and started to speak with a cop about something unrelated, when we got on the topic of open carry. While he goes on to confirm that YES OC is legal, he also began to tell me tales of how it is meant more for rural type areas, and how ocing into a typical store could lead to GATTOTP. Well I asked how that could be possible if I don't touch my HOLSTERED firearm, and I'm just going about my business. He goes on to say that if enough people call and say they were frightened by my gun, he would have no choice but to charge me for GATTOTP. I then asked him how often that charge actually gets used, or applied, and he responds by saying not often. It seems to me that he was full of ****, but I will admit he was pleasant about the whole thing. It seems like he is aware of the law, but thanks to our favorite catch all law, he would not hesitate to apply it. For guys like me that live out in Greensboro, stuff like this is bad news. :banghead:

Great thing about this place: plenty of advice, and nobody says "Tol'ya so".

I still wont let it discourage me, BUT I didnt really like where the convo went, and to be honest I have yet to hear of a single case of someone getting arrested for oc'ing in NC. Maybe I need to look a little harder :uhoh:

The next time you see him, ask him if he's aware that there has to be the intent to threaten or "terrorize" others with your weapon in order to be charged with it. Under what circumstances of your conversation could he prove that intent? That's the choice he's unaware of if he ever has no "choice" but to charge someone with it.

Then again, they can charge you with anything just to diffuse the "situation" in the usual easiest way possible. Making it stick in court without proving the intent could prove to be harder than he thinks, though.

hey, some familiar faces here....

sup rotor!

jeepguy242 said:

hey, some familiar faces here....

sup rotor!

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Oh hell, I'm outta here lol.

Wassup G

rotorhead said:

The next time you see him, ask him if he's aware that there has to be the intent to threaten or "terrorize" others with your weapon in order to be charged with it. Under what circumstances of your conversation could he prove that intent? That's the choice he's unaware of if he ever has no "choice" but to charge someone with it.

Then again, they can charge you with anything just to diffuse the "situation" in the usual easiest way possible. Making it stick in court without proving the intent could prove to be harder than he thinks, though.

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There doesn't have to be intent to be arrested for it. To be prosecuted, yes. But you can be arrested and, using a popular ploy, be taken downtown and let the Judge sort it out. That way you get to pay and the cop - well no skin off his nose.

Refer those type to State v Huntley.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7fHsAQ&usg=AFQjCNG9i2Phc75XQ0X_Gr8EeiohKCpGjA

1. The offence of riding or going armed with unusual or dangerous weapons, to the terror of the people, is an offence at common law, and is indictable in this State.

2. A man may carry a gun for any lawful purpose of business or amusement, but he cannot go about with that or any other dangerous weapon, to terrify and alarm, and in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm a peaceful people.

3. The declarations of the defendant are admissible in evidence, on the part of the prosecution, as accompanying, explaining, and characterizing the acts charged.

Pretty much what I said in my second paragraph.

But then again, State vs Huntley (at least I believe it was State vs Huntley) addressed this and did, indeed, settle that simply carrying a firearm does not constitute an offense. It's the intent that matters. Therefore, people should not be being arrested or cited for GATTTOTP unless the arresting/ citing officer has satisfied the intent to threaten or terrorize others to legal satisfaction.

But yeah, I guess that doesn't mean much to some officers out there, who, for either reasons of simple ignorance of the law or out of malicious intent, still seem to tag this charge on people when it is not warranted.

Edit: I was addressing Badger Johnson's post. I forgot to quote it in this one

Badger Johnson said:

There doesn't have to be intent to be arrested for it. To be prosecuted, yes. But you can be arrested and, using a popular ploy, be taken downtown and let the Judge sort it out. That way you get to pay and the cop - well no skin off his nose.

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As they say in Law School, you can indict (or arrest) a ham sandwich for moping with intent to creep.

CONVICTING that ham sandwich is an entirely different matter altogether.

A hostile or uneducated LEO can most certainly arrest you for GAttTotP--or Disturbing the Peace, or Inciting a Riot, or Public Indecency, or for Flatulence In the First Degree.

But any competent Prosecutor will toss the case before it even hits the dock.

To my knowledge (and I've been researching this for nearly 3 years) there has NEVER been a person convicted for GAttTotP as a "stand-alone" charge for lawful OC in North Carolina. A few people have been arrested for it, but the cases always get tossed and the charges dropped when the paperwork crosses the Prosecutor/DAs desk.

People need to start filing Federal Civil Rights suits against police who do this. This is an EGREGIOUS violations of fundamental human rights. When Prosecutors or Judges toss these cases, it is a great relief to the falsely-charged citizens, but that doesn't do anything to correct this illegal and unlawful action by the police.

The only way they will learn is before a judge. The only way they will learn is to be FORCED to pay for their violations of the civil rights of Law Abiding Citizens. The only way they will learn is by emptying their pockets and ruining their careers with a black spot of civil rights violations.

Perhaps then, other LEOs and LEA administrators will start to realize that they can't abuse our rights because of how they FEEL about the law, and they will learn that making up non-existent violations, falsely arresting people, and illegally detaining and searching people WILL NOT BE TOLERATED in a society that supposedly functions under Rule of Law...

Badger Johnson said:

There doesn't have to be intent to be arrested for it. To be prosecuted, yes. But you can be arrested and, using a popular ploy, be taken downtown and let the Judge sort it out. That way you get to pay and the cop - well no skin off his nose.

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Its unfortunate that things are so screwed up. North carolina is a gold star open carry state, but has to have this catch all law to screw things up. Gotta say, concealed carry is starting to look better to me. I have a squeaky clean record, and shouldn't have to fear losing that, AND my gun just because some sheep in a store felt nervous when she saw my firearm. We really need legislation on our side. :banghead:

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Dreamer said:

The only way they will learn is before a judge. The only way they will learn is to be FORCED to pay for their violations of the civil rights of Law Abiding Citizens. The only way they will learn is by emptying their pockets and ruining their careers with a black spot of civil rights violations.

Perhaps then, other LEOs and LEA administrators will start to realize that they can't abuse our rights because of how they FEEL about the law, and they will learn that making up non-existent violations, falsely arresting people, and illegally detaining and searching people WILL NOT BE TOLERATED in a society that supposedly functions under Rule of Law...

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You're dreaming. Look at the Officer Harless case. He got away with much more than this. He probably created PTSD in his 'victims', and his latest still hasn't gotten his firearm back.

I don't think there's ANYTHING which will dissuade some LEOs from running roughshod over 2A rights. Why? Well, ask yourself why they do it. They do it because it's a compulsion, a jealousy and a number of other things and no mere slap on the wrist is going to change anyone with this going on.

You try and force someone to change and what do they do? They get meaner and sneakier and do not change.

I hope I'm proven wrong but I doubt it.

and the gentleman has not been disciplined

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?97490-Harless-Disciplinary-Hearing-Postponed-Again

sorry for the confusion factor...this relates to harless not being disciplined...sigh...

wabbit

So can someone chime in here? Has someone been arrested for ocing here in North Carolina due to MWAG calls? Or are they just told to leave? According to the High Point cop I spoke with, he said he WOULD if enough people felt afraid even if my hand never touched the firearm, and it remained holstered, and I was just happily shopping or minding my business. While I haven't had any problems as of yet, I'm looking for solid examples, if it has even happened. I was recently told by a gun store employee that noone has ever really been charged for GATTOP unless they actually did something to cause it, and that he regularly open carries. I dont live in the rural areas. I actually live in Greensboro. I plan on getting cc, but I do like oc for the safety reasons....

importinvasion said:

...I plan on getting cc, but I do like oc for the safety reasons....

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You'll be fairly safe conceal carrying. :lol:

MilProGuy said:

You'll be fairly safe conceal carrying. :lol:

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Lol, but what I meant was the possibility of someone who planned to do not so nice things, being discouraged by the sight of my firearm vs then taking me as another victim and then having to actual draw / fire at someone. I prefer prevention vs having to explain myself in court after the fact... just my opinion. I do think oc can keep you out of a shooting while cc relies on just the element of suprise.

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importinvasion said:

...I do think oc can keep you out of a shooting while cc relies on just the element of suprise.

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Good points. :dude:

importinvasion said:

So can someone chime in here? Has someone been arrested for ocing here in North Carolina due to MWAG calls? .

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The only one I can place was the guy at Asheville Airport when Obama was leaving. He did break some laws, but GATTTOTP was not one of them. That's what they charged him with anyway. Here's the thread where it was discussed. This is not related to MWAG calls though.


http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...d-man-arrested-at-NC-airport-as-Obama-departs


That said, I recently had a neighbor threaten to charge me with it for talking to her son while carrying. We had to call LE for her because she was trespassing. When she tried to tell the officer about me, he just ignored her. The officer told my wife "she was hung up on that gun thing." lol I was not home at the time. Supposedly she went to the magistrate. Guess they did not buy it either. I talked to a family friend who is a magistrate and she told me not to worry about it.

All this info leads me to my next question, should greensboro and other cities in NC begin having more oc rallies like the ones I've read about?

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Sounds like you may have spoken to the same blue-shirted monkey who accosted me while shopping at Food Lion on Brian Jordan. The guy told me the exact same thing - that if they receive multiple calls against me then I would be arrested & charged with an antiquated law that I knew more about than he did. The moron said they would confiscate my CHP too. This is beyond stupid - by confiscating my chp they would be forcing me to carry strictly in the manner in which they are telling me not to.

Bottom line - You can't depend on the High Point PD. Not for legal advice. Not for quick response time either - it took them 15 minutes to send someone to my condo when I dialed 911 to report "shots fired" outside my home.


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