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Thread: I hope to one day see this change

  1. #1
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    I hope to one day see this change

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    I know the state law, but its EKU's campus, the place i work. if i knew i could conceal and get away with it i would.

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    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    On the smoking, I can give or take.
    On the weapons, all I can say is AMEN! I agree with you.
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Personally I don't mind it one bit. Secondhand smoke is harmful to those that don't get worse from normal city air. We can only hope that one of these days people stop smoking all together, then we would be a safer society.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    Personally I don't mind it one bit. Secondhand smoke is harmful to those that don't get worse from normal city air. We can only hope that one of these days people stop smoking all together, then we would be a safer society.
    True, yet I am one of those folks who think you should be able to smoke if you want to. Everyone is well aware of the dangers, if they want to, then let them smoke. Telling someone not to smoke is like telling me not to carry my gun. I don't smoke BTW.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    True, yet I am one of those folks who think you should be able to smoke if you want to. Everyone is well aware of the dangers, if they want to, then let them smoke. Telling someone not to smoke is like telling me not to carry my gun. I don't smoke BTW.
    Me neither, but my mother does and my uncle does. Smoking don't bother me one bit. I did mention that city air is worse anyways.

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    lol, i was more refering to the bottom one, i could care less about the top one

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    It is a question of liberty. If tobacco is so bad, make it illegal. If its legal the government has no business telling us where we can use it. Some people say exactly the same thing about guns. Of course, the government has had great success protecting us from the dangers of illegal drugs.
    Government? I thought according to Kentucky law higher learning can decide for themselves to not allow firearms on their property.

    And their reasoning is sound. If there are no guns on campus then their can't be any gun violence on campus. The just fail to realize that if anyone wishes to break the law they won't say "Nope, can't do this, there is a sign that says I can't have a gun."

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    I go to EKU. I really wish we had carry on campus.

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    I'll just keep my sidearm in my truck for now when on campus. What they don't know, won't hurt 'em.

  10. #10
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Please direct me to that law. I haven't been able to find it.
    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/527-00/070.PDF

    527.070(1) The bottom of the paragraph.

    "The provisions of this section shall not
    apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education."

  11. #11
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond150 View Post
    I'll just keep my sidearm in my truck for now when on campus. What they don't know, won't hurt 'em.
    If I am not mistaken this applies to you:

    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/237-00/106.PDF

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    I've read that many times. But everyone insists that a college campus is exempt from that. Either way, it's still in my truck

  13. #13
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    It is a question of liberty. If tobacco is so bad, make it illegal. If its legal the government has no business telling us where we can use it. Some people say exactly the same thing about guns. Of course, the government has had great success protecting us from the dangers of illegal drugs.
    Is that referring to guns or to tobacco? I was pointing out that in KY collages have the right to choose for themselves if they allow firearms on campus or not.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    It is referring to the post that I quoted. My quote of your original post (about tobacco, post #3) and my post can be seen in post #6 of this thread. It was only later, in post #8, that you made the statement (still unsubstantiated) that colleges can prohibit guns by statute. My question (in post #10 and still unanswered) to you is where is that statute? In post #13 you attempted to substantiate your claim by quoting a statue that say says it does not apply to colleges and you seemed to think that somehow that settled the matter when, in fact, it said exactly the opposite of what you said in Post #8. It is all very confusing. You could clear up all the confusion if you just tell us what statute gives colleges the authority to prohibit firearms on ther campus. You said there was one(in post #8 and again in #18), where/what is that statute?
    Your confusion has nothing to do with me. You're reading too much into the situation. (Most) Laws in the US, and kentucky, are things you cannot do. So until something is illegal then it is perfectly legal. KRS 527.070 is the "Unlawful possession of a firearm on school property" and it specifically exempts higher learning from those rules. MEANING they can make their own rules governing firearms on their premise.

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    law says you can keep it in your vehicle. witch is what me, and i know a few others i work with do. off topic but, working one of the last football games one of the campus cops got a little dudley do right on one of the guys i work with over his knife, hunting knife he keeps on his belt, threaten to take him to jail over it. he was the only cop all year to have a problem with it all year.

    an interesting side note though, eastern has a gun range on campus because of law enforcement training. they use it 2 or 3 times a week. if there was an actual shooting on campus how many people would just think its them training. you can hear it all over campus.
    Last edited by Curtis C; 12-10-2011 at 09:08 AM.

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    I have been over at Stratton building pretty much everyday for 3 years. I've never heard the range. Where is it?
    Last edited by bond150; 12-10-2011 at 11:58 AM.

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    its right behind ashland. i forget the name of it. its part of the McKinney training complex, but the road that goes between ashland and the one room school house, its the building on the left. i'm sure you have herd them training on the road track, sirens going on all day.

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    Yeah I always hear the cars. I'll listen for the firing range next time

  19. #19
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    You said "according to Ky. law". Where is that law? The statute you cited has nothing at all to do with a college.
    WTF? Why in the hell are you being like this? Same place in KY law that it says we can open carry. Probably when I said that anything is legal until it is illegal. And KY law says that it is illegal to carry on school property but that the law doesn't pertain to universities and collages. It never comes out and says "Collages and universities can govern themselves in the field of firearms on their premises." Is that what you want to hear? I have already told you that I haven't found a law that says that KY higher learning cannot make the choice.

    If you say that everything in a list is against the rules and don't name something as against the rules then it says that everything not on the list is within the rules until/if it is made against them.

    So maybe I need to rephrase what I said. "according to what isn't in KY law". < That make you happy?

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    I believe that 09jisaac and GutShot are saying the same thing.

    09jisaac is saying that KY statutes do not ban guns from college and university campuses since they are institutions of higher education.

    I think the real argument here should be, Can public colleges ban carry since KY has preemption.

  21. #21
    Regular Member CharleyCherokee's Avatar
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    According to KY law it is perfectly legal to open carry most places.


    according (əˈkɔːdɪŋ)

    — adj
    1. ( foll by to ) in proportion; in relation: salary will be according to age and experience
    2. ( foll by to ) on the report (of); as stated (by)
    3. ( foll by to ) in conformity (with); in accordance (with): everything went according to plan
    4. ( foll by as ) depending (on whether)
    5. not standard dependent on: it's all according where you want to go

    Because a thing is not specifically prohibited by law means that according to the law it is legal. Therefore, it can be said that according to KY law colleges can prohibit firearms on their premises.
    Last edited by CharleyCherokee; 12-10-2011 at 11:37 PM.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    No, it does not. It scares the hell out of me. You are mixing two completely different concepts. Public colleges are entities of the government. Government entities can not do anything without authority to do it. The people can do anything that is not prohibited by law. This concept does not apply to government or government entities. Government entities, like public colleges, must have authority to do everything they do. Where is the authority for colleges to ban guns? Show me the authority that allows them to restrict the constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. You can't do it because there is none. The General Assembly has the authority to restrict concealed carry because the Ky Constitution grants that authority to them. Where is the similar authority for colleges. The belief that government can do anything it wishes is so alien to the United States that it is scary to hear someone try to make the case for it and not see the problem. The State, County and city governments have limited powers and authority. They can not exceed that authority. the absence of a law does not grant them the power to do anything.
    why didn't you just say this to begin with, the reason is probably no one has legally fought this issue, majority just accept it and go on. if i knew how to go about getting the ball rolling i would try and do something

  23. #23
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Like This Lovely Little Sign!

    I encountered this lovely little sign while visiting the local KCTCS campus!
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  24. #24
    Regular Member neuroblades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I don't know what KCTCS is.
    It's the Kentucky Community & Technical College System.

    http://www.kctcs.edu/
    Got SIG? MOLON LABE

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    Quote Originally Posted by flb_78 View Post
    I believe that 09jisaac and GutShot are saying the same thing.

    09jisaac is saying that KY statutes do not ban guns from college and university campuses since they are institutions of higher education.

    I think the real argument here should be, Can public colleges ban carry since KY has preemption.
    The preemption law applies only to city, county, or urban-county governments. In Kentucky statutes are strictly construed, meaning if its not in the statute its not part of the statute. So colleges are free to do so, under this law.

    KRS 65.870

    "No city, county or urban-county government may occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession, carrying or transportation of firearms, ammunition, or components of firearms or combination thereof."

    Then KRS 237.115 states "Except as provided in KRS 527.020, nothing contained in KRS 237.110 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the right of a college, university, or any postsecondary education facility, including technical schools and community colleges, to control the possession of deadly weapons on any property owned or controlled by them or the right of a unit of state, city, county, urban-county, or charter county government to prohibit the carrying of concealed deadly weapons by licensees in that portion of a building actually owned, leased, or occupied by that unit of government".

    Now they can prohibit firearms and weapons. But there are no criminal penalties if you choose to disregard that prohibition. However you may be fired, expelled, asked to leave and banned from the campus, and if you return arrested for trespassing.

    KRS 527.070 (1)

    "A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a weapon on school property when he knowingly deposits, possesses, or carries, whether openly or concealed, for purposes other than instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or the purposes permitted in subsection (3) of this section, any firearm or other deadly weapon, destructive device, or booby trap device in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education. "

    See opinion of the Attorney General 96-40 for a more in depth analysis of the subject.

    But the real kicker is in the Kentucky Constitution:

    Section 1 of the Kentucky Constitution reads "The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons." It doesn't say they can take part in any other regulation of weapons, other than regulating concealed carry.

    Section 26 "To guard against transgression of the high powers which we have delegated, We Declare that every thing in this Bill of Rights is excepted out of the general powers of government, and shall forever remain inviolate; and all laws contrary thereto, or contrary to this Constitution, shall be void." Any law contrary to the Constitution is void.

    But so far the Supreme Court of Kentucky hasn't held the strict view of Section 1.

    Who knows, we may see that change.

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