2nd Amendment Foundation files brief AGAINST OC

oak1971 said:

I will cross SAF off my list of organizations to support. Too bad, as I attended their convention this year and did not pick up on any of this kind of attitude.

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Seeing all they do on their site made me want to join them. After seeing this, a snow ball has a better chance in hell than I do of support SAF.

MilProGuy said:

Thank you.

It's the mall ninjas in our communities that bring this kind of reproach upon the rest of us who carry responsibly and SENSIBLY.

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I was wondering when the circular firing squad would arrive.....:banghead:

oak1971 said:

I was wondering when the circular firing squad would arrive.....:banghead:

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:dude:

:lol:

Orginal case judge's decision starting at bottom of page 13.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/tennessee/tnmdce/3:2010cv00126/46864/43/

Newsparer article with comments:

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conte...ctivist-sues-state-after-carry-permit-revoked

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/conte...-rambo-drops-appeal-handgun-permit-revocation

Contact info, including a webmail form:
http://www.saf.org/default.asp?p=contact

Second Amendment Foundation
James Madison Building
12500 NE Tenth Place
Bellevue, WA
98005

Voice: 425-454-7012
Toll Free: 800-426-4302
FAX: 425-451-3959


Alan Gura
GURA & POSSESSKY, PLLC
101 N Columbus St., Suite 405
Alexandria, VA
22314

703.835.9085
703.997.7665
alan@gurapossessky.com

It will be interesting to hear their reason for filing the brief. I surmise it is that they are concerned about effects on future 2A cases.

BTW, Calguns was in on that brief too.
More :cuss: quotes:

the Second Amendment does not support a right to deliberately alarm people with firearms, to disguise firearms as toys, or to initiate confrontations with police.

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The first, I'll give them, but prove that he intended to alarm people.
If camo is his normal style of dress, or at least not out of the ordinary,
and carrying is normal for him,
and hiking in a park is normal for him,
he was doing what's normal... and how many times have people/police been 'alarmed'?

And IIRC it was the police who approached him.
As for how the pistol was painted, so what? If it looks like a toy, wouldn't people be LESS 'alarmed'? What's wrong with that, esp. since he had no intent to harm anyone - if the deceit allowed him to take it into an otherwise prohibited place & he intended to, say, rob a bank, that is a problem.

Plaintiff’s intentionally provocative conduct in no way represents the manner in which millions of Americans responsibly and effectively exercise their right to bear arms every day.

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So?
Because he did something odd he loses his rights?

Traditionally, strategic civil rights litigation seeks to present sympathetic scenarios near or within the consensus of the right sought to be advanced — not atypical or outrageous conduct that is, at best, only arguably within the scope of the relevant right.

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I can't believe they're saying this.
I can think of several famous historic examples of things that were 'outrageous', yet ended up as their era's civil rights battle.. and advanced rights for everyone.

I only got to maybe the 8th page of the actual brief before I had to stop.
There are only so many :cuss: & & :banghead: allowed in one post.





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Orginal filing by Embody:

http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/20...pistol-incident-in-tn-court-complaint-papers/

Discussion on PAFOA's site with Gura's name mentioned.

http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/142589-park-ranger-wins-nashville-federal-gun-case.html

MKEgal said:

BTW, Calguns was in on that brief too.

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Appears reason why is in post #42 here.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=458448&page=2

Embody disposition, note the forum posting copies at the end. More proof that anything you post can and will be used against you:

http://blog.andrewwatters.com/blog/cg/depo-kwikrnu.pdf

OK, let's just assume the worst and this is a complete setup as other accuse kwik of doing. Who cares? The cops fell for it? Just because someone does something for the wrong reason doesn't excuse the cops from doing something wrong.

Flipper said:

Embody disposition, note the forum posting copies at the end. More proof that anything you post can and will be used against you:

http://blog.andrewwatters.com/blog/cg/depo-kwikrnu.pdf

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LOL! Page 102, McX; you made the big time. Protias on pg 104.

MKEgal said:

So because I think that snake handling & speaking in tongues is strange (or how about kneeling or bowing),
certain Christian sects shouldn't be allowed to use what they see as a normal form of worship?

[sarcasm]
I mean, really... at church you should sit in your seat, stay still, & keep your mouth shut, except to sing or leave.
What are those other wierdos thinking?!?
And let's not even get into the non-Christians, or people who use languages other than English.
Tolerance can only go so far.
[/sarcasm]



You two sound like Jeri's Kidz...
"this isn't nor-mal"
"you shouldn't do that because I say it's wrong"
Or even the cc-only people who insist that OC is wrong because they aren't used to it & don't like it.

I wouldn't do what kwik did, and I agree it's unusual, but he didn't break the law & didn't harm anyone.

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"Jeri's Kids"... really? I guess personal attacks are OK if you're "in" with the "group". He was out to prove a point, to attract attention. He got it. Sounds like some others I know. There's been mass shootings by people who appeared to be just like this guy. The whole fricken AWB was the result of a guy in camo with an AK-47 shooting up a school yard in WA. Seeing people like him in a park would be my motivation for carrying a firearm myself, and motivation for non-gun owners to seek more bans on "assault weapons". If you think this is "normal" behavior and does not give the rest of us a "bad image" then guys like us "Jeri's Kids" are your biggest enemy.... and people like you are mine. Good day.

edited - to delete name calling. sorry, lost temper

safcrkr said:

"Jeri's Kids"... really? I guess personal attacks are OK if you're "in" with the "group".

He was out to prove a point, to attract attention. He got it.

Seeing people like him in a park would be my motivation for carrying a firearm myself, and motivation for non-gun owners to seek more bans on "assault weapons".

If you think this is "normal" behavior and does not give the rest of us a "bad image" then guys like us "Jeri's Kids" are your biggest enemy...

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Thank you for your comments.

I agree. Some are allowed a pretty free hand when it comes to personally insulting other forum members.

I Suggest Reading Through The Calguns Posts And The Deposition From 2010

I just read a large portion of KWIKRNU's posts on Calguns...folks...he did this on purpose. Some of those on Calguns discovered and posted where KWIKRNU was hoping to provoke the police to arrest him by open carrying a handgun. KWIKRNU posted that he ALMOST got 9-1-1 calls two times for open carry (2009) but didn't and then he posted that maybe he would get 9-1-1 calls if he carried a PLR-16 or an AK-47 pistol.

The deposition from Nov 2010 is 177 pages....that will take more reading.

He obviously went further towards his goal and painted the tip of his AK pistol orange.

Since he filed a court case he now may cause another restraint on our 2A rights by the State of Tennessee (and others?) passing a law(s) forbidding the open carrying of firearms. This is not good NEWS for any of us. I don't see anything good coming from this case at all...not for KWIKRNU or anyone of us who fights daily for our right to keep and bear arms. This will most likely cause the Federal government to also pass a law making it illegal to paint firearms to resemble airsoft/toy guns. More laws we don't need.

I don't support what he did and I have to ask those of us here: Who in this group would ever paint the tip of a firearm orange? And why?

Was he looking for an encounter? Probably. Do I agree with his methods? No. As for the orange tip, I believe it's purpose was to be a safeguard against getting shot by police in an encounter.

None of this changes the fact that what he did was LEGAL and what the Cops did was ILLEGAL. I don't care even if it was all planed out to "entrap" the cops. They should know better and it's no excuse for them.

That being said, I don't agree with the lawsuit being appealed and figure the cops did have QA, this time anyway.

Is this guy a douche? Yup. Is just being a douche illegal? Not yet, and we'd better hope it stays that way.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

rcawdor57 said:

I just read a large portion of KWIKRNU's posts on Calguns...folks...he did this on purpose. Some of those on Calguns discovered and posted where KWIKRNU was hoping to provoke the police to arrest him by open carrying a handgun. KWIKRNU posted that he ALMOST got 9-1-1 calls two times for open carry (2009) but didn't and then he posted that maybe he would get 9-1-1 calls if he carried a PLR-16 or an AK-47 pistol.

The deposition from Nov 2010 is 177 pages....that will take more reading.

He obviously went further towards his goal and painted the tip of his AK pistol orange.

Since he filed a court case he now may cause another restraint on our 2A rights by the State of Tennessee (and others?) passing a law(s) forbidding the open carrying of firearms. This is not good NEWS for any of us. I don't see anything good coming from this case at all...not for KWIKRNU or anyone of us who fights daily for our right to keep and bear arms. This will most likely cause the Federal government to also pass a law making it illegal to paint firearms to resemble airsoft/toy guns. More laws we don't need.

I don't support what he did and I have to ask those of us here: Who in this group would ever paint the tip of a firearm orange? And why?

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Who cares if he did it on purpose? I don't. He did nothing illegal.

safcrkr said:

"Jeri's Kids"... really? I guess personal attacks are OK if you're "in" with the "group". He was out to prove a point, to attract attention. He got it. Sounds like some others I know. There's been mass shootings by people who appeared to be just like this guy. The whole fricken AWB was the result of a guy in camo with an AK-47 shooting up a school yard in WA. Seeing people like him in a park would be my motivation for carrying a firearm myself, and motivation for non-gun owners to seek more bans on "assault weapons". If you think this is "normal" behavior and does not give the rest of us a "bad image" then guys like us "Jeri's Kids" are your biggest enemy.... and kooks like you are mine. Good day.

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Right on safcrkr.

I Agree It Isn't Illegal, But Is It Something You Would Do? Would You Ignore Him?

paul@paul-fisher.com said:

Who cares if he did it on purpose? I don't. He did nothing illegal.

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And I ask you again: Would you do this?

I don't go through life PLANNING to encounter the police and agitate them to the point of them pointing a weapon at me and perhaps shooting me. These are dangerous times we live in, filled with hype from highly charged T.V. programs that most people believe is Gospel.

Most of the people in this country have been told what to believe. Let's face it, there IS a stereotype presented to the public of a person who mass murders people. If you were hiking on a trail with your wife and children (whether you are armed or not) and you encounter a person or lets say a GROUP of men all armed with AK-47's, wearing camo and looking all military like what thoughts go through your mind? Let's say that this guy went further and legally pinned fake grenades all over him. Still legal? Of course it is (in most states). How far do we go with our "legal stunt"? He could dress up like RAMBO with knives, bow, grenades and an AK-47 with a painted orange tip. It's all legal to do so but WOULD you? Do you ignore him and continue on your walk with your family and then later you discover he murdered an entire family? There are indicators in life of imbalanced people. We use them everyday to stay alive by following our instincts.

I can go further: Instead of a RAMBO type guy you encounter a group of "Terrorist looking" guys as seen on T.V. after Sep 11, 2001 walking toward you and your family on a state park trail. They are all carrying AK-47's and wearing vests bulging with ??? you don't know. Do you ignore them because it is legal?

Once again, would you or anyone that posts on this site ever do anything even remotely like what he did? He has hurt us tremendously and many laws may be passed because of his "legal" actions.