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Thread: HB 25: Concealed handgun permits; confidentiality of permittee information

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    HB 25: Concealed handgun permits; confidentiality of permittee information

    Delegate Cole has resubmitted a bill that was illegally killed in the subcommittee. Yay! My personal favorite. Maybe this will be the year it finally gets passed.

    TFred

    HB 25 Concealed handgun permits; confidentiality of permittee information

    Concealed handgun permits; confidentiality of permittee information. Prohibits the clerk of the court from disclosing information contained on a concealed handgun permit application or on an order issuing a concealed handgun permit.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This is one of several that will be heard tomorrow, Thursday February 2, in the MPPS Subcommittee #1 meeting at 5PM.

    I don't think I can make this one. The real test will be on the Senate side.

    TFred

    Here's the docket:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...sub+H150010202

    Quick cut and paste:

    H.B. 25

    Patron: Cole

    Concealed handgun permits; confidentiality of permittee information. Prohibits the clerk of the court from disclosing information contained on a concealed handgun permit application or on an order issuing a concealed handgun permit.


    H.B. 273

    Patron: Peace

    Department of Criminal Justice Services; minimum training standards; juvenile correctional officers. Requires the Department of Criminal Justice Services and the Criminal Justice Services Board to provide compulsory minimum entry-level training standards for juvenile correctional officers.

    Impact Statements


    H.B. 592

    Patron: Merricks

    Criminal history record information check for transfer of certain firearms; exemption for concealed handgun permittees. Provides an exemption from Virginia-specific criminal history record information checks upon the purchase of firearms from licensed dealers when the purchaser is a Virginia resident holding a valid Virginia-issued concealed handgun permit.


    H.B. 716

    Patron: Kilgore

    Auxiliary Police Officers; training standards. Allows individual law-enforcement departments within jurisdictions that establish auxiliary police forces to determine the training standards for those auxiliary police officers.


    H.B. 754

    Patron: Cline

    Concealed handgun permit applications; fingerprints. Removes the option for a locality to require that an applicant for a concealed handgun permit submit fingerprints as part of the application.


    H.B. 929

    Patron: Lingamfelter

    Carrying concealed weapons by former attorneys for the Commonwealth. Provides an exemption for former attorneys for the Commonwealth and former assistant attorneys for the Commonwealth from the requirement to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon.


    H.B. 943

    Patron: Lingamfelter

    Purchase of service handguns; certain law-enforcement officers. Permits certain law-enforcement officers to purchase their service handgun after 15 years of service. Current law requires law-enforcement officers to have served 20 years before they may purchase their service handgun.


    H.B. 952

    Patron: Bell, Robert B.

    Carrying concealed weapons; correctional officers. Allows a Department of Corrections correctional officer to carry a concealed handgun without a concealed handgun permit.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    HB 25 Concealed handgun permit; confidentiality of permittee information.
    02/08/12 House: Read third time and passed House (81-Y 17-N)

    HB 754 Concealed handgun permit applications; removes option for locality to require fingerprints.
    02/08/12 House: Read third time and passed House (74-Y 22-N)
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    HB 25 Concealed handgun permit; confidentiality of permittee information.
    02/08/12 House: Read third time and passed House (81-Y 17-N)

    HB 754 Concealed handgun permit applications; removes option for locality to require fingerprints.
    02/08/12 House: Read third time and passed House (74-Y 22-N)
    I just happened to be sitting in the House Gallery for those two votes!

    TFred

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I just happened to be sitting in the House Gallery for those two votes!

    TFred
    Whoop-te-do. More boot licking P4P from the damned VP4PDL.
    Last edited by Thundar; 02-08-2012 at 05:48 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Whoop-te-do. More boot licking P4P from the damned VP4PDL.
    Nobody is forcing you to read this thread. The subject quite clearly indicates what the thread is about. Why don't you help keep your blood pressure in check, and just skip it from now on?



    TFred

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Whoop-te-do. More boot licking P4P from the damned VP4PDL.
    So a bill dealing with concealed carry that is already on the books is boot licking? It's not like they are introducing a bill to allow concealed carry.

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Nobody is forcing you to read this thread. The subject quite clearly indicates what the thread is about. Why don't you help keep your blood pressure in check, and just skip it from now on?



    TFred
    +1, some of us have permits. Get over it.

    I for one like the fact that my permit information will not be revealed to the general public.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This issue happens to be "the" issue that brought me back into the world of the 2nd Amendment and the RKBA a bit over three years ago. Once this is done, I'm not sure what there will be left to do to keep my interest...

    And yes, that's a joke!

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I'm not going to pull this thread OT...but everyone who's responded so far is what I consider the thinking crowd, so quietly think to yourselves about when FOIA was passed and who knew all court records were available as public documents.

    Then think about people who build homes next to shooting ranges only to demand they be closed a year later.

    Nuff said!
    Think!
    Last edited by peter nap; 02-08-2012 at 06:43 PM.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Didn't intend to cause a stir... was just reporting the news from the capital.

    I for one, prefer constitutional carry for all non-prohibited persons. No more P4P or any need of the bills surrounding. And, I'm pretty pizzed that the shenanigans in the house will not let the bill surface.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    Didn't intend to cause a stir... was just reporting the news from the capital.

    I for one, prefer constitutional carry for all non-prohibited persons. No more P4P or any need of the bills surrounding. And, I'm pretty pizzed that the shenanigans in the house will not let the bill surface.
    You didn't MK!

    If Thundar isn't fussing and I'm not seeing the dark side, it isn't politickin season.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm not going to pull this thread OT...but everyone who's responded so far is what I consider the thinking crowd, so quietly think to yourselves about when FOIA was passed and who knew all court records were available as public documents.

    Then think about people who build homes next to shooting ranges only to demand they be closed a year later.

    Nuff said!
    Think!
    Pardon my ignorance, did FOIA have anything to do with the open nature of court records? I have been under the impression that court records were by default "open", with a historical basis on the fact that land records need to be open to ensure that taxes are levied fairly.

    Was there a time when any or some court records were closed, such that a FOIA type hammer was needed to open them up again? My impressed understanding of FOIA was to open up the internal workings of government, the things that were not previously deemed "public".

    And yeah, this is past the ditch off-topic... but things I do not know.

    We'll certainly pull the thread back ON topic once HB 25 starts making news on the other side. That's where the news for this bill will be anyway.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 02-08-2012 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Clarify

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Pardon my ignorance, did FOIA have anything to do with the open nature of court records? I have been under the impression that court records were by default "open", with a historical basis on the fact that land records need to be open to ensure that taxes are levied fairly.

    Was there a time when any or some court records were closed, such that a FOIA type hammer was needed to open them up again? My impressed understanding of FOIA was to open up the internal workings of government, the things that were not previously deemed "public".

    And yeah, this is past the ditch off-topic... but things I do not know.

    We'll certainly pull the thread back ON topic once HB 25 starts making news on the other side. That's where the news for this bill will be anyway.

    TFred
    No, you're absolutely correct TFred but we need to go back when the problem started. The News were getting the names from the State Police under FOIA. Something that's done all the time. Even DGIF sells lists of licensed hunters and is an unfortunate fact of modern life.

    Anyway, Permittee's objected and the FOIA pipeline was closed so the papers went to the courts who are not regulated by FOIA, but by the rules of the Supreme Court where records are open except for very specific instances.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No, you're absolutely correct TFred but we need to go back when the problem started. The News were getting the names from the State Police under FOIA. Something that's done all the time. Even DGIF sells lists of licensed hunters and is an unfortunate fact of modern life.

    Anyway, Permittee's objected and the FOIA pipeline was closed so the papers went to the courts who are not regulated by FOIA, but by the rules of the Supreme Court where records are open except for very specific instances.
    Ah, yes, the dastardly Roanoke Times event... a gift, or one-stop-shopping, for the lazy among the anti-gun crowd. That happened right before I resurfaced. Thanks. I suppose there are still many copies of that list floating around on computers all over the world today.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Ah, yes, the dastardly Roanoke Times event... a gift, or one-stop-shopping, for the lazy among the anti-gun crowd. That happened right before I resurfaced. Thanks. I suppose there are still many copies of that list floating around on computers all over the world today.

    TFred
    VA CHP holders were outed in 2207. In 2009, under intense pressure, Gov. Kaine signed a bill preventing the VSP from releasing the info.

    From the Collegiate Times::

    In response to a request for comment, Karenna Glover of the Roanoke Times forwarded a pre-written statement.
    "The Roanoke Times admits it made some mistakes and apologizes for potentially putting some individuals at risk by publishing a database of concealed handgun permit holders," the statement said.

    Also in the statement, Debbie Meade, president and publisher of the Roanoke Times, said they "did not give sufficient thought to the possibility that the safety of certain individuals on the list, like law enforcement officials and crime victims, could potentially be compromised."

    http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stori...permit-holders

    Yet to this day, the same information is available through each courthouse.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I am VERY disappointed that HB 25 was defeated in the Senate's Courts of Justice this afternoon.

    Chairman Norment voted with the rest of the Democrats to Pass the Bill by Indefinitely.

    Why did we work so hard to get rid of the Democratic majority in the Senate if the Republican leadership is going to join them on critical votes like this?

    TFred


    HB 25 Concealed handgun permit; confidentiality of permittee information.

    02/15/12 Senate: Passed by indefinitely in Courts of Justice (8-Y 7-N)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    YEAS--Norment, Saslaw, Marsh, Howell, Lucas, Edwards, Puller, McEachin--8.

    NAYS--Obenshain, McDougle, Stuart, Vogel, Stanley, Reeves, Garrett--7.
    Last edited by TFred; 02-15-2012 at 08:27 PM. Reason: Added link

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    norment = friend or foe? that is the question at hand.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    norment = friend or foe? that is the question at hand.
    I've said this before MK, there are very few hard core pro gun legislators. They sway with the wind.
    That's why Saslaw's Death Star lasted so long. He took the heat for being anti. The fence sitters didn't have to do anything.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I've said this before MK, there are very few hard core pro gun legislators. They sway with the wind.
    That's why Saslaw's Death Star lasted so long. He took the heat for being anti. The fence sitters didn't have to do anything.
    understand that.
    i suppose my ? was more rhetorical vs interrogatory. just trying to get the lay of the land and it's surely convoluted.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    understand that.
    i suppose my ? was more rhetorical vs interrogatory. just trying to get the lay of the land and it's surely convoluted.
    Going back to the 70's, this is the time of the year I always wonder why I bother!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Going back to the 70's, this is the time of the year I always wonder why I bother!

    Because it ain't heavy and you are no weak seester, Meester Nap.

    It has become one of those Old Virginia traditions.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    hopefully, i learn enough, quickly enough, to help shoulder some of the load.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mk4 View Post
    hopefully, i learn enough, quickly enough, to help shoulder some of the load.
    Aaah, someone reads between the lines.

    Such is a useful talent around here.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    those communist suns~a~b_-----es...
    :-X
    Why can't they leave well-enough alone? Can't they see this bill protects the innocent and those hiding from dangerous criminals? What will it take for them to see the danger of their silliness? Blood in the streets... That's what will happen... Just wait and see...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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