pistol retention class - Milwaukee area

MKEgal · Dec 8, 2011

Got an email early this morning from a well-known trainer in the MKE area: Tom Sipin.
Some of our members have worked with him before & have high praise.
I know there are people here who have been wanting to learn pistol retention, and here's a good chance.
I'm copying directly from the email;
I don't know anything more than this;
there's a phone # & email below to get more info.

Weapon Retention / Disarming
Thursday, December 15th
7:15 - 9:30 pm

Location: Four Winds Martial Arts

Equipment needed:
Holster
Training / plastic handgun (if you have one)
Heavy work type gloves
unloaded carry pistol, for initial warmups

Cost:
New Students $20 / person
Previous Students $15 / person

Due to several requests for this training before the holidays, registration will be accepted up to 1 day before the class.
Please contact Sue @ 414-541-3656

Four Winds Martial Arts
2038 S 114th St.
West Allis

fwma@wi.rr.com
www.fwma.net
www.centurymartialarts.com

For more information on who we are and what we do please visit:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Hardened-Target-Training-Solutions-Four-Winds-Martial-Ar ts/157822464311177?sk=info

bigdaddy1 · Dec 8, 2011

Interested, if I dont have a plastic gun does he provide one? I wonder why you need heavy gloves?

msteinhilber · Dec 8, 2011

bigdaddy1 said:
Interested, if I dont have a plastic gun does he provide one? I wonder why you need heavy gloves?

I imagine there is going to be a lot of swift contact with the hands and they're using the gloves to lessen the impact while you're practicing disarming people. That's a pretty good price for the class, might have to consider getting over that way if I can.

davegran · Dec 8, 2011

Good information!

Thanks for the heads-up, MKEgal, this sounds like a very valuable course for a very reasonable cost!

Firearms Iinstuctor · Dec 8, 2011

bigdaddy1 said:
Interested, if I dont have a plastic gun does he provide one? I wonder why you need heavy gloves?

You need the heavy gloves so when the training pistol gets ripped out of your hands it doesn't take your skin with it.

scorpio_vette · Dec 8, 2011

if one doesn't have a trainer pistol, would removing the magazine and firing pin be considered safe enough to use???

bigdaddy1 · Dec 8, 2011

scorpio_vette said:
if one doesn't have a trainer pistol, would removing the magazine and firing pin be considered safe enough to use???

If what happens in class is what I think happens you wont want your carry pistol being tossed around.

scorpio_vette · Dec 8, 2011

bigdaddy1 said:
If what happens in class is what I think happens you wont want your carry pistol being tossed around.

not trying to argue. do have to wonder thought if i should trust a gun with my life if it can't handle a little abuse.

alternative. would a airsoft pistol be an option??? at worst it would make a poof of air no more than me blowing at someone, and if broken i'm out $20. LOL

just asking, as i'm possibly considering the class, and don't have a dummy, but when i train i like to train and best as possible.

Firearms Iinstuctor · Dec 8, 2011

scorpio_vette said:
if one doesn't have a trainer pistol, would removing the magazine and firing pin be considered safe enough to use???

Real hand guns have lots of nice sharp edges and parts that could tear your hands up.

Plus I would not want to teach a class with real guns to many things can go wrong.

Their have been a fair number of training accidents with so caled unloaded or safe real guns.

bigdaddy1 · Dec 8, 2011

scorpio_vette said:
not trying to argue. do have to wonder thought if i should trust a gun with my life if it can't handle a little abuse.

alternative. would a airsoft pistol be an option??? at worst it would make a poof of air no more than me blowing at someone, and if broken i'm out $20. LOL

just asking, as i'm possibly considering the class, and don't have a dummy, but when i train i like to train and best as possible.

Not really worried about the gun, more so about the people in the class. You loose your grip and the piece flies accross the room and beans Ol'Lady Moses in the noggin will bring a quick end to the class. Rubber gun may leave a welt but usually wont draw blood.

Firearms Iinstuctor said:
Real hand guns have lots of nice sharp edges and parts that could tear your hands up.

Plus I would not want to teach a class with real guns to many things can go wrong.

Their have been a fair number of training accidents with so caled unloaded or safe real guns.

Yep.

scorpio_vette · Dec 8, 2011

Firearms Iinstuctor said:
Real hand guns have lots of nice sharp edges and parts that could tear your hands up.

Plus I would not want to teach a class with real guns to many things can go wrong.

Their have been a fair number of training accidents with so caled unloaded or safe real guns.

no accidents. only negligence.

which is why i specifically said no magazine, and no firing pin. i guess that to me would make it safe. but you know what they say.......for every fool proof device, somebody breeds a better fool. so while i can't figure out what could go wrong (ok fine let me back up.....when removing the magazine, ALSO CHECK THE CHAMBER AND MAKE SURE IT'S EMPTY. LOL) with either of those missing, i can respect that decision.

so what about a airsoft gun???

Lurchiron · Dec 8, 2011

scorpio_vette said:
no accidents. only negligence.

which is why i specifically said no magazine, and no firing pin. i guess that to me would make it safe. but you know what they say.......for every fool proof device, somebody breeds a better fool. so while i can't figure out what could go wrong (ok fine let me back up.....when removing the magazine, ALSO CHECK THE CHAMBER AND MAKE SURE IT'S EMPTY. LOL) with either of those missing, i can respect that decision.

so what about a airsoft gun???

If you buy the "Blue Pistol" trainer for your model of gun; you can use it in non-training times, to keep the shape of your leather holsters tip-top...

MKEgal · Dec 8, 2011

Just talked with him on the phone...
Answer: yes, he has extra plastic pistols

ADD to the equipment list:
bring your real pistol, but NO AMMO - he likes to have people do the warmups w/ real weight in the holster to let you see how well it retains the pistol. When we get to the actual handling, though, it'll all be plastic.

JJC · Dec 8, 2011

I've got a few of his videos, and really wish that I lived closer so I could partake of this training.

JJC

Firearms Iinstuctor · Dec 9, 2011

scorpio_vette said:
no accidents. only negligence.

which is why i specifically said no magazine, and no firing pin. i guess that to me would make it safe. but you know what they say.......for every fool proof device, somebody breeds a better fool. so while i can't figure out what could go wrong (ok fine let me back up.....when removing the magazine, ALSO CHECK THE CHAMBER AND MAKE SURE IT'S EMPTY. LOL) with either of those missing, i can respect that decision.

so what about a airsoft gun???

Air soft guns are not tough enough they will break apart during the course. I have seen training guns break. Plus a plastic bb to the eye wouldn't be fun. air soft require min of eye protection.

There are very good reasons to use plastic training guns instead of real guns.( cuts, gun shot wounds ect.)

Ripping a gun out of some ones hands or retaining it is very dynamic.

Having been involvled with this type of training for years when we didn't have training guns we sure wished we did.

scorpio_vette · Dec 9, 2011

Firearms Iinstuctor said:
Plus a plastic bb to the eye wouldn't be fun. air soft require min of eye protection.

see once again you assume there would be a magazine or anything in it.

or

maybe i keep making the mistake assuming that everybody "should" know how to be responsible. (not refering to you. but obviously "accidents/negligence" must happen enough to cause people to take such precautionary measures. plus the above mentioned points of metal to the head, etc..)

i'm sorry......to much downtime lately. to much thinking time in the head. i'll quite cluttering this thread.

i'll try to be there if i can.

Firearms Iinstuctor · Dec 9, 2011

scorpio_vette said:
see once again you assume there would be a magazine or anything in it.

or

maybe i keep making the mistake assuming that everybody "should" know how to be responsible. (not refering to you. but obviously "accidents/negligence" must happen enough to cause people to take such precautionary measures. plus the above mentioned points of metal to the head, etc..)

i'm sorry......to much downtime lately. to much thinking time in the head. i'll quite cluttering this thread.

i'll try to be there if i can.

I prefer to assume on the side of safety in training, due to being an absolute stickler for safety, I haven't seen an untentional discharge in one of my classes. I know of several and have seen the patched walls.

Any time one does force on force training one can expect some injuries. A miss placed kick,punch,elbow ect ect. I have seen cuts,sprains, tore mussles, bullet holes in training aids ect. No bullets holes in people yet. I plan on keeping it that way.

The more real and harder one trains the more chance of injury. one can end ones career or alter ones life with an mishap in training or worse end up dieing

Train safe, train hard be cafefull

bigdaddy1 · Dec 9, 2011

Crap, I just realized I have to work that evening.

:banghead:

:banghead::cuss:

scorpio_vette · Dec 15, 2011

crap. not going to be able to make it.

are you going to be having another class sometime soon or after the holidays???

bigdaddy1 · Dec 15, 2011

I called Sue and was added to the email group. She said there will be more classes after the holidays.

pistol retention class - Milwaukee area

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