please explain to me "normal", and explain yourself

scorpio_vette said:

well society treats you like crazy for carrying a gun. so if we all stopped carrying, then we won't have to worry about being treated like loonies, and the cops will stop harassing us. right???

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Some, more than others; me thinks...
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Lurchiron said:

Only the ones on Jap bikes... :banana:

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DAT HAIR lol



I don't think you'll find too many people here who are against dressing how you want. Everyone here is pretty pro-liberty all the way around. I feel that dressing with a little "class" only helps us look more like responsible gun owners, but I see nothing wrong with being in biker attire and carrying.

The problem is when you're carrying with your pants down at your knees wearing a shirt that says **** THE PO'LEECE < at this point your attire may shed bad light on open carry.

davegran said:

Yes, if he can legally own a gun, he should be allowed to open or conceal carry, because he is a human being with a natural right to live and to protect that life and the lives of his family. (Looks like he's wearing a wedding ring...)

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wow...good eye on the ring. when reading forums, i'm always amazed at the detail that some people find in pictures. i never pic details like that out of pictures. i'm pretty good at doing that in real life, but in pictures.....details......huh???what???

he doesnt bother me, but then again i think i know him; model T-101, riding the cyberdyne motorcycle i beleive.

scorpio_vette said:

wow...good eye on the ring. when reading forums, i'm always amazed at the detail that some people find in pictures. i never pic details like that out of pictures. i'm pretty good at doing that in real life, but in pictures.....details......huh???what???

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Details like, theres a big dent in the left side of the gas taank, the camao pants look to me like desert storm pattern, so maybe hes a vet? also the guy that took the picture is on a bike too.. look at the reflection in the chrome on the left side.

scorpio_vette said:

so i've read here in the past and specially today when people on this forum argue over "well if a person looks like this", or "if a person chooses to wear that", or "he was wearing (enter whatever you don't like here)...", etc..etc..etc..

well here's my question. shouldn't each individual have the RIGHT to choose what they want to wear, WITHOUT it affecting their other RIGHTS. does a person wearing a suit have more right to carry, then a person wearing a jump suit??? does a person dressed like a cowboy have less right to carry (lets change that to SELF DEFENSE) than somebody dressed like a priest??? does a woman have more right to self defense than a man???

Let me give you an example. I'm very curious on your opinions, and REASONS.

if you saw someone like this next to you, do you think he should be allowed to open or conceal carry??? please explain your answer.

picked these off the internet. hope the owner doesn't mind.

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Very good point. To add onto the discussion, if we want to be technical, open carriers aren't normal, concealed carriers aren't normal. 1% of the population gets a license/permit in states that issue them. Less than 5% most likely carry every day. I don't mind not being normal.

I admit that occasionally I see what I would assume are "weirdos" or "wacko's", and I do judge them by their appearance. Like that weirdo that drives around Milwaukee in that station wagon blaring religious shtuff on the loudspeakers, I judged him to be a nut job. He doesn't fit my picture of "with in the box". Does he care what I think of him, probably not. Does anyone else care what I think of him, probably not. In this particular case I don't have any intention or plan on investigating my opinion of him any further, and choose to ignore him. As for the biker, since I am also a "biker" that culture doesn't phase me, but it might others. I remember one time I was driving my Datsun B210, some azzwipe cuts me off. I hit my horn to let him know he just cut me off. He decides to be tough guy and stops his car and throws open his door and storms toward me. I get out of my car (6 foot tall, wearing my leather and weighed about 280, about 10 lbs of that was hair) and he stopped cold and goes back to his car and takes off. He assumed by my appearance that he made a mistake (which he did) and left. After I stop laughing I drive off. The biker culture is more mainstream now anyway, so I dont think its a concern

scorpio_vette said:

BUT......he's wearing camos.

(sorry, it's the "camo pants" comments that i seem to stumble upon quite often that got to me, so i figured i'd step it one up
and throw in a picture of a tattooed and pierced biker while i was at it).

i am serious though. i want to see what people have to answer to my above question. i mean after all, "he is a biker". aren't bikers bad news???

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I think the overall opinion of 'bikers' has changed in the past 20-30 yrs...seems that more and more people have a HD for weekend cruising...and EVERYONE knows or is one of those people... are you sure that isnt you on the bike? (i noticed the scorpions on the bike)

Look at the image info - it's him. It's not the motorcycle.

GlockRDH said:

I think the overall opinion of 'bikers' has changed in the past 20-30 yrs...seems that more and more people have a HD for weekend cruising...and EVERYONE knows or is one of those people... are you sure that isnt you on the bike? (i noticed the scorpions on the bike)

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OOOHHHH you have no idea. I have more parents pull their kids away, back pedal or otherwise show fear
Than you can imagine. Honestly I get more people concerned looking like that than I do when I open carry in camo.
Hell when I open carry I actually have people asking me questions regarding other gun related stuff because they
"Assume i'm into guns" (word for word, not making that one up).

Herr Heckler Koch said:

Look at the image info - it's him. It's not the motorcycle.

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Correct. That is me. Husband of 11years, father to a 3year old, had my property burglarized TWICE since my son was born.
Have a friend who was raped in the same park that my son used to play in, a friend who was attacked during broad daylight
At a busy gas station by 2people. The same gas station that I would carry my son on my shoulders to so I could
Buy him a ice cream on a hot day.


Do I not deserve the same level of respect and rights to self defense as everyone else???

So yes, I get a bit touchy when people make comments about ".....wearing camo and.....", as an excuse
That apparently we scare people and make all you carriers look bad.

Know why I wear camo??? ......................

I grew up military and married into military. I get most of my camos free. Haven't worn anything other than camo in probably
10years. I've worn the army green and brown camo cargo pants for so long that I actually feel weird when trying to wear
Anything else. Been trying to wear jeans for the last year, but everytime I try, I don't even get the belt in them before I put my camo
Back on.

Some of you have met me, others will. You decide what you think of me. In the meantime I have a wife and son to watch who I hope I get to spend
Plenty more time with.

PS: my wife just re-enlisted for another 6 years. BUT yet this same woman that has carried an M-16 overseas to protect these "constitutional rights"
Is NOT allowed to protect herself on the same army bases located in the home country that she fights to protect. What a way to spit in a soldiers face. This country has made this SOLDIER who openly carries a M-16 overseas so uncomfortable of "attention" and harassment that she chose NOT to protect herself rather than to open carry. At least now she has the option to conceal, but still not on bases or government buildings.
When I hear people say "thanks for serving, we appreciate everything you do for us" my blood gets boiling and I just want to reply with "REALLY?? Because you have a funny way of showing it".
screw all those stupid little "support your troops" stickers and all that fake bullcrap. these same people that won't allow them to protect themselves put on their windows and cars. if you REALLY appreciate what they do for you, you would put a gun on their belts and tell them never to take it off ANYWHERE again unless THEY choose to do so themselves.
Soldiers getting killed on home bases because a mad man goes in and starts shooting and SOLDIERS stand there empty handed.........REALLY??? REALLY???

if it were up to me, i think every soldier should think about what is happening in the country they fight to protect, and their "rights" when they get back home, and EVERY SOLDIER should just hang up their uniform and say "SCREW THIS......why fight for right that we don't have anyway, to protect people that won't let us protect ourselfs".

Sorry.....i get really upset when i see the crap my wife has to deal with and every other soldier with her. everytime i hear of somebody i know joining the army, I just feel sorry for them. I have respect for the people who choose to join the army for whatever reason. I feel bad for those same soldiers because they just get spit in the face for everything they do. maybe a little harsh. but i don't think soldiers get the respect or treatment that they should.

i better scoot from this desk and go watch a relaxing movie or something.

scorpio_vette said:

Do I not deserve the same level of respect and rights to self defense as everyone else?

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Good. There you have gone to the nub of it.

Continuing with the book analogy; the Bible has earned respect, tested by time. A laws-book has earned fear by the scofflaw for the respect paid the book by the law abiding. A book of fearsome images puts on its "respect" like a book jacket.

Appear as you will, we are known by the company that we keep.

scorpio_vette said:

That is me. Husband of 11years, father to a 3year old...

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First off, thanks for your family's service.

I'm sure that 3 year old deserves to grow up with a father. Especially when the mom is serving. So why no proper riding attire? Image?

Is that a Yamaha with Memphis Shades fairing and Harley FLH bags???

HandyHamlet said:

First off, thanks for your family's service.

I'm sure that 3 year old deserves to grow up with a father. Especially when the mom is serving. So why no proper riding attire? Image?

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Very long and difficult/confusing answer, but i'll try to explain MY PERSONAL VIEW as best as i can without writing a whole page.

****DISCLAIMER. I am a firm believer that each rider has to make his/her OWN DECISIONS. YOU have to weigh your options and what is right for YOU. If you have to ASK ME WHAT YOU SHOULD DO (basically implying you're not adult enough to make your own decisions and be responsible for your own actions), i will tell you ALL THE GEAR ALL THE TIME.


1) I have ridden without, with 1/2 and with full face helmets. I can't stand full face helmets for comfort, lack of visibility (i personally feel i loose more peripheral vision than i care to with a fullface i'd rather see what is about to hit me and dodge it, than to hope my helmet will protect me from a semi about to run me over), and lack of directional hearing and hearing speed (my personal experience that i hear more and sooner without a helmet.) for what it's worth, i've noticed that when i honk my air horn on my bike around helmeted riders, most of them don't notice it. but if i do the same around non-helmeted riders, most of them immediately respond with evasive or pre-cautionary measures.

2) I'm very torn on the subject of helmet or not, because while i know that they CAN protect you, i also know there is NO GUARANTEE, and NO RESET button.
--i have been behind a bike with zero riding gear as he crashed in a turn at 50mph and walked away with nothing more than bumps and bruises and we continued riding. that same person has already been in numerous crashes either of his own doing, or other peoples faults with no gear, and has no injuries to show for it.
--I have been behind a bike with ONLY a helmet that crashed in a turn at 80mph and him and the bike were catapulted off the road and down a 10foot embankment, and he only had a bruised ankle and no other injuries or impact signs to the helmet and continued riding (yes the bike survived that crash) another 30miles back to camp.
--i have friends who have told me stories of their numerous crashes WITHOUT gear who all walked away with more or less roadrash.painful yes. but you can get major injuries in almost any sport. i once barrel rolled my jeep cherokee at 50mph. i know friends who have shattered their complete leg falling down stairs because they tripped.

On the flip side,

--I personally know a guy who crashed at 70mph wearing FULL GEAR. he was in a coma for a year, and while he is still alive, there are times i wonder (specially at his age) if what he is enduring now was worth surviving for.
--I had a neighbor. young guy (early 20's) who had a 1year old daughter. he wanted to be save for her, so he wore FULL GEAR. never saw him without. the last time i saw him, he was proudly showing me his brand new helmet and armored riding jacket. he was dead the next time. got into a wreck and snapped his back in several places. dead on site.
--i have also seen enough news reports of people have been in wrecks WITH HELMETS, and still died.

like i said.....no guarantees. the way i look at it. I could die while working on my roof, working under a car, in a car crash, from an armed robber, from slipping on ice and cracking my skull, from rollerblading, from off-roading and rock crawling my jeep, drunk driver, medical malpractice, being shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or because a suicide bomber decides to blow up a building (sorry, just trying to make a point on how NOTHING is predictable or safe) etc..etc..etc..etc..etc..etc.. am i supposed to avoid every aspect of life, because "it may kill me"???

as for the rest of my body.....well if my head gets ripped off, it won't matter what shape my body is in. i try to wear a vest most of the time, so i at least have "some" protection from roadrash around the vital organs. i can live with scars. heart has to keep pumping though.


i used to wonder if i would life past age 25. do you know why??? youngest man to die on my dads side of the family of..........HEART ATTACK was 26years old.

I've been in more car wrecks since i was a kid in the backseat than most people i know. i've had work related accidents and close calls that many people never encounter in their life. i nearly had a doctor kill me by carelessly grabbing the wrong medication, and for the last roughly 7 years i haven't been able to support my family because god suddenly decided to bless me with a rare health disorder that has no known treatment and known known cure. but it's put my wife through
hell for the last 7 years, and i've missed my sons 1st x-mass and his 2nd b-day because of it.





basically i've decided......Life is to short. when the grim reaper pulls your number for todays drawing, NOTHING in the world will save you. so i'd rather enjoy my life while it's here, and enjoy the time i have with my wife and son and teach him to enjoy life, than to spend what little time i may have in fear, hiding and constantly "baby proofing" everything and miss out on life.



crap......keeping things short is really hard when you're trying to explain something without causing misunderstandings. sorry. LOL

Trip20 said:

Is that a Yamaha with Memphis Shades fairing and Harley FLH bags???

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close.

Suzuki volusia VL800
Memphis Shades fairing off of a Honda VTX (different mounting setup) adapted with $10 Harley windshield fork clamps
Harley Hardbags mounting system mocked up after the factory harley system, while utilizing the stock suzuki mount points
4" pullback risers (move handle bars up and back more)
lowered roughly 2" in the back
home made 2" lift inside the front forks (keep spikes out of radiator)
home made 3" forward controls (copied after another companies design)
converted to LED lighting (reduced lighting power consumption from roughly 90watts to barely 3watts)
flat LED strips down side of fairing and wrapped around forks for "hidden" front turn signals.
rear flush mounted DOT trailer lights with fully functioning run/brake/turn and hazard.
air horn
flush mounted cigarette lighter with flush plug in USB adapter in speedo housing for charging any USB device
stock rear pegs flipped side to side so still functional with the huge saddle bags
custom highway pegs (15minute prototype, still need to modify and finish them)
air cleaner removed from right side of engine and open element installed centered under the tank
air pump removed from left side of engine (so both sides of engine are equally visible. looks cleaner i think)
custom made plug in jumper cables (plug jumper cables into side of bike when needed. no need to remove seat or other parts anymore.)
custom speedometer face place
speedometer stop pin (pin sticking up on left side by 0mph)is a brass spike taken out of the inside of a jeep cassette deck)
coin holder from jeep wrangler on master cylinder reservoir (looks near stock. blends in very well)
leather drink holder mounted to front of left saddle bag (soon upgrading to 4 bottle capacity)
home made power ports in right side cover to power heated riding gear, or plug in battery tender.
dual cigarette adapter power ports inside right saddle bag with removable USB plug-in
low profile convertible gps/cell phone mount center of handle bars for storing/charging cell phone, and to use it as navigation device. can also be used with both of my other gps devices rather than needing a different mount for each one.
heated grips
saddleman profiler (i think) seat (slightly modified for clearance issues with my saddle bags)
approximately 100 spikes +/- between front and rear fender.
fenders, saddle bags and gas tank sanded and spray painted black.


all the work done by myself with help from the wife laying out and measuring the grid for the spikes, and some friends help with a couple custom parts (for the forward controls).

not sure if you wanted to know all that. but i like my bike.

I think you are missing the irony GIANT of your thread.

One massive justification does not negate the fact that you choose image over safety. Image over your child. Image over your wife.

Just an observation about image. You asked.

HandyHamlet said:

I think you are missing the irony GIANT of your thread.

One massive justification does not negate the fact that you choose image over safety. Image over your child. Image over your wife.

Just an observation about image. You asked.

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WRONG.......YOU said i chose image over safety. I never said i chose not to wear gear so i could look cool, tough, like a biker or anything.

i simply tried to show my reason for making my choice (even if not required, as nobody else has to give me permission or agree with my reasoning).

if you would have actually paid attention to what i wrote, i chose NOT to wear a helmet because i feel more aware and therefore safer without it, and because i can die with or without a helmet (better chance to survive with helmet, but dead is still dead). and i chose not to wear jacket/chaps and be uncomfortably hot, because if my head gets ripped off, it won't matter if my body is protected and still looks good.


fine.....here's one i didn't mention.......on a sport bike, you better your azz i'll wear boots, leather suit, gloves and helmet. but that's cuz i'll be in a parking lot doing stunts and know that i will fall......repeatedly.

if you could guarantee me with your life and be willing to better the life of every one of your family members that i would be 100% invincible while wearing ATGATT (all the gear all the time), i promise you without a doubt that i'd suit up for the rest of my life.


if you even so much as think that i don't think of my son every time i start the bike, you'd be VERY GREATLY mistaken. I think of him just as much then as i do when he is in the back of the car while taking him to the zoo.
you may not agree with my choice not to wear gear, but i ask you, that if you in any way are accusing me (not saying you are. but if that is your thought) of being a bad father or don't care about my son, i ask you NEVER to talk to me in person because i wouldn't care about anything else you have to say to me whether it's good or bad. There are only 2 people in this world that I would die for if it would save their life, and those 2 people are my son and my wife. NOBODY ELSE.....not even my own parents.

The first thing that came to mind was organ donor.

Yeah, I think I saw a crack about "unwarranted hostility" in another, nearby thread on gun carry in a tavern.

Most accidents happen in the home, and the majority of those that result in serious injury or death happen in the bathroom. I assume that you folks have no qualms about going into the bathroom with out full protection.




Wisconsin does not have a mandatory helmet law because many people felt they should be able to choose, he doesn't need to justify his decision to anyone other than himself.