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Thread: I feel like a sitting defenseless duck at work now.

  1. #1
    Regular Member FarmerGreg's Avatar
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    I feel like a sitting defenseless duck at work now.

    I work in a large candy factory on 3rd shift. It's has always been in our handbook that employees can't carry a gun but now the company has posted sign's that say "No Guns No Kidding" now the world knows were defenseless. I wish they would take the sign's down!!! ;(
    Greg
    Member: National Rifle Association, Wisconsin Carry, Inc

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    time to find a new job...

    my wife's boss's husband (who works around the office and is kind of a head honcho being that he is the boss's husband) told my wife 'you better not have a gun in here' when she mentioned something about it. If they press the issue she's quitting.

    Life > Job.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Andy's Candies is it? So I know and stop eating their candy.

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Oh wonderful - another public service announcement for the criminals:

    "Look here, your next meal ticket is unarmed"

    or to the abusive spouses,

    "Get even here - they can't defend themselves."

    There oughta be a law.....
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Does your company have armed security guards assigned to each of you? Are there metal detectors and armed guards at each "check point" to make sure no one brings a gun in? I'm guessing the answer is no to both of those, and on top of it all, your company is advertising that it's defenseless.

    Rhetorical questions, or not, up to you:
    Is there any workplaces in your line of work that is carry friendly, or have no policy (neutral), you can apply to?
    What are the consequences of disobeying the property owners policy at your current workplace?
    Have you talked to any of the "higher ups" or property owner about how gun free zones are a bad idea?

    EDIT: I start a reply, walk way, come back , finish it, click post, and there is already 3 replies. Must be a close to the weekend!

  6. #6
    Regular Member FarmerGreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandbayy View Post
    Andy's Candies is it? So I know and stop eating their candy.
    No it's not Andy's. I understand why we can't have anything including a gun with us on the floor because a small part could get in the candy but wish they wouldn't advertise it on the front doors.
    Greg
    Member: National Rifle Association, Wisconsin Carry, Inc

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerGreg View Post
    No it's not Andy's. I understand why we can't have anything including a gun with us on the floor because a small part could get in the candy but wish they wouldn't advertise it on the front doors.
    If your guns fall to pieces at random times you've got a issue...

  8. #8
    Regular Member FarmerGreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    Does your company have armed security guards assigned to each of you? Are there metal detectors and armed guards at each "check point" to make sure no one brings a gun in? I'm guessing the answer is no to both of those, and on top of it all, your company is advertising that it's defenseless.

    Rhetorical questions, or not, up to you:
    Is there any workplaces in your line of work that is carry friendly, or have no policy (neutral), you can apply to?
    What are the consequences of disobeying the property owners policy at your current workplace?
    Have talked to any of the "higher ups" or property owner about how gun free zones are a bad idea?

    EDIT: I start a reply, walk way, come back , finish it, click post, and there is already 3 replies. Must be a close to the weekend!
    We have unarmed gard, gates at driveway's that are badge operated, badge operated turnstyles at main doors, security camera's at main doors, but no fence around the business and no metal detector's.
    Greg
    Member: National Rifle Association, Wisconsin Carry, Inc

  9. #9
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    I think that I may have worked there back in the 70's. One time they had too drain a whole vat/tank because someone had dropped a wrist watch in it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member FarmerGreg's Avatar
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    I have not talked to any higher management because I fear it could set off red flags and put my job at risk.
    Greg
    Member: National Rifle Association, Wisconsin Carry, Inc

  11. #11
    Activist Member carsontech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerGreg View Post
    We have unarmed gard, gates at driveway's that are badge operated, badge operated turnstyles at main doors, security camera's at main doors, but no fence around the business and no metal detector's.
    Wow. So they provide no security/protection for their employees, and they have a policy that no tools for protection are allowed on the property. Just paraphrasing what everyone else has said, that's stupid! It's oh-so-common, though.

    I'm in the same situation, as I work at a University that has the same type of policy. The university has no way to enforce the policy or anyway to protect employees. Sure, the campus has a police department, but my building is 10 miles away from campus, in the middle of nowhere. If someone decided to come shoot up the place, there's nothing stopping them besides a locked door and some glass windows, and the front door only locks after hours. Basically, if anyone decided to shoot up the place, no one would have a chance unless they could make it to their vehicle to retrieve their firearms. We house all important servers and networking infrastructure for the university. You would think the billions of dollars equipment and priceless information that is housed for the university, and countless other state programs, would have something besides a locked door and easily broken windows between sensitive server rooms.

    Like Schlitz said, "Life > Job"

    I would gladly work in gun friendly environment where I could carry (CC or OC, OC preferred) making half of what I make now. I could do that, but my wife and I made a stupid decision on buying a, relatively, big house that requires me to have a, relatively, good paying job since I'm the only one that works.

    Once we get out of some debt we're looking to downsize dramatically. Sell the house, move to AZ, get a small house in the middle of no where, and get a job that I can protect myself at or become an entrepreneur. Simple living, no fancy crap. Just back to the basics of enjoying life by being able to take responsibility for our own lives. A roof over our heads, no other houses or a city in site, living off the land, guns, and ammo. God I can't wait.



    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerGreg View Post
    I have not talked to any higher management because I fear it could set off red flags and put my job at risk.
    Roger that, I know what you're talking about.

  12. #12
    Regular Member markush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goett047 View Post
    If your guns fall to pieces at random times you've got a issue...
    That's what I'm saying!

  13. #13
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Wisconsin is not a right-to-work state thanks to unions

    @Carson, Wisconsin is not a right-to-work state, as is South Carolina, so jobs are not so easily changed thanks to unions.

  14. #14
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerGreg View Post
    I work in a large candy factory on 3rd shift. It's has always been in our handbook that employees can't carry a gun but now the company has posted sign's that say "No Guns No Kidding" now the world knows were defenseless. I wish they would take the sign's down!!! ;(
    The cow working administration at my workplace did the same thing. Company policy always has been, no weapons of any kind. It's in the handbook, we had to sign an agreement to abide by it. (Their building their rules I have no problem with any of this.) I have always carried a pocket knife for boxes, cutting ends off cables and such.

    But NOW, there are signs at all the entrances per her idea.

    "So, it's in the handbook what's with the cheap signs?"

    "So our client's don't bring anything in." (We have very few clients in the building, and most of them fly here, so it's not like they bring an arsenal regularly. )

    "Ok, so why are there signs on the locked back doors that only employees use?"

    She had read the liability clause and got it exactly backwards, thinking that there was immunity from civil liability if signs WERE posted. I corrected her in front of her boss. The signs remain up.

    Though... they are up in drywall with thumb tacks. The type of mounting prone to coming loose over time....
    "I can only be held responsible for my own stupidity." - Captain Nemo

  15. #15
    Regular Member msteinhilber's Avatar
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    My place of employment has no intentions of posting but also has no intention in revising the company policy to allow firearms to be carried by employees. In fact, the only change made to the policy manual was to add a line to ensure the policy manual noted employees can lawfully stow their firearm(s) within their vehicle but still went on to prohibit them on company premises otherwise. Do I wish the policy was different, of course I do - but jobs are few and far between in my line of work at this point in time.

  16. #16
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Many employers do not permit firearms on their premises.

    I worked at the Veteran's Administration Medical Center for several years, and firearms on the premises were forbidden.

    Right or wrong, they are just exercising their rights to do so.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  17. #17
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    I worked at the Veteran's Administration Medical Center for several years, and firearms on the premises were forbidden. Right or wrong, they are just exercising their rights to do so.
    The government, the Veteran's Administration has no "rights," but only powers to be used against it's disfavored. Thank you for reminding me that and why I will never exercise my veteran's privilege to use the VA. Thank God I don't have to.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 12-11-2011 at 08:26 PM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    The government, the Veteran's Administration has no "rights," but only powers to be used against it's disfavored. Thank you for reminding me that and why I will never exercise my veteran's privilege to use the VA. Thank God I don't have to.

    Private sector employers do have rights, though.

    It's their right to have a no firearms policy...just at it is the private citizen's right not to work there if their policies do not meet their approval.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  19. #19
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goett047
    If your guns fall to pieces at random times you've got a issue...
    LOL! I had a similar thought. 'Sides, if it's in a holster, what are the chances it would manage to fall into a batch of anything? How much of the production line is below waist level?

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerGreg
    I have not talked to any higher management because I fear it could set off red flags and put my job at risk.
    A common concern.
    You could PM, email, or call a few trusted friends & get them to coordinate contacting the employer, including things like "we won't buy your product".
    No way to trace it to you, & maybe coming from "outsiders" they'd listen better.

    I, too, am curious what brand of candy to avoid.
    Like to buy local when I can, but if they're endangering their employees...?
    If you don't want to post here, you could PM or ask protias to add it to the sticky thread, or put it on www.friendorfoe.us
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
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    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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  20. #20
    McX
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    well, if the do get past the token political correct security, you could offer them candy if they planned to kill you, it may soften them up, and they might only wound you instead.

    i have found in life that those who post the prohibited signs are usually not around when the SHTF.

    snack on.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Private sector employers do have rights, though. It's their right to have a no firearms policy...just at it is the private citizen's right not to work there if their policies do not meet their approval.
    The Veteran's Administration is NOT private sector.

    Goggle is your friend.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Farmer Greg: I feel very sorry for you if you are in that much fear of your job. The CEO's I have know over my years of working for other, and in my owning my own company would lead me to believe that you probable do not have a valid fear.

    I would suggest you write a letter, very short, very polite and explain how you know there are reasons to not allow firearms on the production line, but was he aware of the potential liability he was exposing himself and the company to by posting the facilities with a sign?

    Polite greeting

    Paragraph 1: Who you are, loyal employee for X years, etc.

    Paragraph 2: Company policy as it is, and how it could be understood to be that way. That you are not requesting a change in the handbook.

    Paragraph 3: The complaint of the Sign Posting the plant and the liability that sign exposes the company to. A request that the sign be removed for everyones safety and the company's liability.

    Closing : Include a statement that if the CEO wishes to talk to you, you would be more than willing to do so, on your own time.

    Try to write this in less then a page, Make it a slow mail type letter, and have it put in his mail box at work.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    while working in the aerospace industry, i was in the position to significantly encouraged management to put up applicable signage, IAW prevailing statutes, on all entrances of our building. not for the employees per se, but to assure those workers who provided appropriate maintance to our facility were aware they could not carry - o or c within the facility/on the property.

    now before the unslaught begins from everyone... this avenue was the lesser of two evils, as management, at the prodding from HR, wanted to install metal detectors at the entrances which would of been embarrassing to those of us who were allowed, by senior management, to carry conceal at work in the performance of our position(s) and was unbeknownst to the majority of the employees, including HR.

    wabbit

    ps: good suggestion, but to further your objective, you might wish to elicit the support of the environmental, health, safety person to adddress/discuss your concerns at the organizational EH&S committee. does two things, one discussion in front of management representatives and puts it on the record employees feel there is a safety issue. additionally, this approach negates your letter might not get past the CEO's watch dog, AKA admin specialist.

  24. #24
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    The Veteran's Administration is NOT private sector.

    Goggle is your friend.
    I did not say that the Veteran's Administration is private sector.

    Go back and re-read post #18.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 12-11-2011 at 03:08 PM. Reason: edited for clarity
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

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  25. #25
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    ps: good suggestion, but to further your objective, you might wish to elicit the support of the environmental, health, safety person to adddress/discuss your concerns at the organizational EH&S committee. does two things, one discussion in front of management representatives and puts it on the record employees feel there is a safety issue. additionally, this approach negates your letter might not get past the CEO's watch dog, AKA admin specialist.
    While the underlined may be a concern, it can be legally circumvented by placing (yes I forgot to mention) "Private". If you put "Private" for< CEO name > legally (I know doesn't mean they won't) Admin cannot open and screen the letter.

    As to the environmental safety committtee, yes, that is also a good idea. I guess I am just to used to talking to higher ups, in person. It would be very possible that if the company has an environmental safety committee that the CEO would point him that direction anyway. There would be ane big advantage to clueing the CEO in first, it's called followup.

    ncwabbit: you have obviously been in the business end.. think about it this way. Safety committee meets, Joe employee submits his request, it is discussed and action take...odds the action is what you want (that is goodby signage)????

    CEO tells Safety committe to look into the signage question and listen to Joe employee's arguments????? Odds the action taken will be in your favor?

    Remember, CEOs, CFOs, COOs etc put there pants/panyhose one one leg at a time too...(even though some my not think so)

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