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Thread: carry at festivile

  1. #1
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    carry at festivile

    i pretty sure this has been discussed before, but MT. Airy has this on the books.

    Sec. 9-110. - Firearms.
    Except for sworn certified Law Enforcement personnel, the possession of firearms in the festival area is prohibited. This restriction does not apply to the exhibits of weapons by authorized vendors.
    (Ord. of 8-3-99, § 9-98)


    my question is, can they do this by state law? if not, what if anything can be done?
    Last edited by papa bear; 12-10-2011 at 11:35 PM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    If the Festival is held on city park property they can probably get away with this. Perhaps a call to the AG is in order on this one though...

    If the Festival is held on private property, then private property rights apply, and they can do ANYTHING they want with regards to regulating or prohibiting firearms.

    They call it "concealed" for a reason--if they can't see that you're carrying, they can't know that you're carrying...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  3. #3
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    It is on main street. they block off the center of town and side streets. booths are sit up in the streets
    Last edited by papa bear; 12-12-2011 at 12:41 PM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    It is on main street. they block off the center of town and side streets. booths are sit up in the streets
    If this is the case, then I do not believe their ordinance is legal under State Preemption.

    If the Festival is free to enter, then there is simply no legal way for them to prohibit carry on a City Street or Sidewalk at ANY time--special event or not.

    If the Festival charges admission for entry though, you would be prohibited from carry anyway under NCGS § 14‑269.3...

    Perhaps a call to Mt. Airy's City Attorney is in order, and they need to be appraised that unless they remove this unlawful ordinance, there will be legal action taken with the State AG's office...

    Why isn't GRNC on this one?

    One of the great things about VCDL that I find incredibly praiseworthy is that EVERY time an unlawful local ordinance restricting carry comes to their attention, they IMMEDIATELY get on it, and set it straight. GRNC might take a look at the VCDL model, and emulate their tactics and procedures a little more closely--VCDL has gotten a TREMENDOUS amount of positive change made to VAs gun laws in general, and in specific, has been instrumental in forcing Counties and Municipalities to purge their books of these unlawful policies...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-12-2011 at 10:36 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  5. #5
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    See "Events Occurring in Public Places"

    http://www.ncdoj.com/Files/About-DOJ...-gun-Laws.aspx

    I think GRNC would relish having resources to fight a conventional war on multiple fronts. Guerrilla tactics against focused issues may be more realistic.

    Picking battles and decisively winning them has led to consistent success. This year's Castle Doctrine was a major victory.

    The more "Grass Roots" blades there are, the more issues can be effectively addressed at one time...

  6. #6
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    "Doble Troble",

    I don't mean to come across snarky, but did you even READ the law under that heading? It has to do SPECIFICALLY with parades, funerals, and demonstrations--NOT just any event that happens in a public place.

    NCGS §14-277.2 is one of the most misquoted, misused, and misunderstood bits of law in the NC General Statutes.

    Don't make me turn this thread around...

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl..._14-277.2.html

    § 14‑277.2. Weapons at parades, etc., prohibited. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person participating in, affiliated with, or present as a spectator at any parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration upon any private health care facility or upon any public place owned or under the control of the State or any of its political subdivisions to willfully or intentionally possess or have immediate access to any dangerous weapon. Violation of this subsection shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor. It shall be presumed that any rifle or gun carried on a rack in a pickup truck at a holiday parade or in a funeral procession does not violate the terms of this act.

    (b) For the purposes of this section the term "dangerous weapon" shall include those weapons specified in G.S. 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑284.1, or 14‑288.8 or any other object capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death when used as a weapon.
    (c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to a person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14‑269(b) or to persons authorized by State or federal law to carry dangerous weapons in the performance of their duties or to any person who obtains a permit to carry a dangerous weapon at a parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration from the sheriff or police chief, whichever is appropriate, of the locality where such parade, funeral procession, picket line, or demonstration is to take place. (1981, c. 684, s. 1; 1983, c. 633; 1993, c. 412, s. 2; c. 539, s. 174; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1997‑238, s. 4.)

    There is simply NO WAY that a municipality could justify a general weapons ban at a "festival" being held on a public street under NCGS § 14-277.2--with the exception of a PARADE that might also be part of this festival. But the festival itself--info booths, vendors, entertainment, etc--that area simply cannot be arbitrarily declared off-limits for lawful carry by a county or municipality without running afoul of State Preemption.

    They simply do not have the authority to arbitrarily ban the lawful carry of firearms in a specific portion of the city, or on a specific few streets just because some sort of festival is going on.

    Perhaps the City Attorney needs to know that unless this "law" is stricken from the books, that the AG will be notified that they are acting in violation of NC Statute and the NC Constitution, and legal action will be forthcoming...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-13-2011 at 07:45 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  7. #7
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    I completely agree!

    But if Greenville can ban lawful carry in dog parks because they've "redefined" them to be playgrounds, banning carry at a "festival" redefined to become a public "demonstration" seems mild. For what purpose do "vendors" have "booths" other than to "demonstrate" their wares. This would be a lay-up for a belligerent municipality.

    This is why there never can be any "common sense" restrictions of the 2A - because common sense no longer exists.

    I agree it is legal, but I also think that it is potential trouble. But I'm all for trouble-makers when they make the right kind of trouble, and can manage the consequences.

    If the OP gets in trouble I hope we'll all be willing to help to the extent we can!
    Last edited by Doble Troble; 12-13-2011 at 10:59 PM.

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    Sort of technically, one has to be "affiliated, participating in, or spectating" a parade for it to be a violation of that statute.
    The Christmas parade in my town goes along the street right in front of my place of business. I leave my business OC'ing while the marching band is passing. I'n not standing there "spectating", I couldnt give a rats ass about the parade. Simply going about your business while the city has a parade isn't illegal unless your doing one of the three prohibited things at the parade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveStrings View Post
    Sort of technically, one has to be "affiliated, participating in, or spectating" a parade for it to be a violation of that statute.
    The Christmas parade in my town goes along the street right in front of my place of business. I leave my business OC'ing while the marching band is passing. I'n not standing there "spectating", I couldnt give a rats ass about the parade. Simply going about your business while the city has a parade isn't illegal unless your doing one of the three prohibited things at the parade.
    Might be interesting to read Part 12 Ch 1 Sec 12-1060 of the Raleigh ordinances in regard to this. You don't have to be a spectator or participant.

    We've the same garbage in Fayetteville.
    Won't change what I do, either.

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