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Thread: Putting old yeller down...

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Unhappy Putting old yeller down...

    So a friend of a friend of a friend of mine has a dog with a bad leg. The surgery is $4,000 and isn't even guaranteed to work. So my friend's friend wants to put the dog down before it has a chance to snap it's leg running around the house/yard. He doesn't really want the dog's last moments to be on a steel table in a vet clinic because he feels this environment stresses his dog out. He'd much rather throw the frisby one last time and put old yeller down, bring the dog home, and bury it in the backyard with a little tomb stone.

    The question here is: is anyone aware of laws when it comes to shooting an animal in the state of Florida? like, could this be construed as some twisted form of animal cruelty? (I think the cruel thing to do is keep the animal alive)

    I've done some googling and I can't find any decent information out there. Does anyone have any personal experience like this they could share?


    To keep this OC related, the friend's friend will be open carrying a .357 GP100 to do the deed.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    I don't have a cite but I am fairly certain that it would fall under animal cruelty.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    So a friend of a friend of a friend of mine has a dog with a bad leg. The surgery is $4,000 and isn't even guaranteed to work. So my friend's friend wants to put the dog down before it has a chance to snap it's leg running around the house/yard. He doesn't really want the dog's last moments to be on a steel table in a vet clinic because he feels this environment stresses his dog out. He'd much rather throw the frisby one last time and put old yeller down, bring the dog home, and bury it in the backyard with a little tomb stone.

    The question here is: is anyone aware of laws when it comes to shooting an animal in the state of Florida? like, could this be construed as some twisted form of animal cruelty? (I think the cruel thing to do is keep the animal alive)

    I've done some googling and I can't find any decent information out there. Does anyone have any personal experience like this they could share?


    To keep this OC related, the friend's friend will be open carrying a .357 GP100 to do the deed.

    Absolute NO-GO

    Class III Felony in Florida.

    Statute 828.12 et seq.

    Intentional Cruelty: Fine up to $10,000, imprisonment up to 5 years.
    Intentional Cruelty with torture: Minimum fine of $2500 and psychological treatment.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    I wonder how putting poison in a dog's blood is not cruel, but shooting it in the head is seen as cruel?
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Your "friend" is an idiot. Putting down a vicious dog, sure. Putting down a stray, maybe. Putting down your pet, not the best option. Tell your "friend" to pop for a home visit from the vet & have it done in his enviroment.
    Could this be construed as animal cruelty? Might be, but I don't see that. Certainly don't see it being filed on. Where is this act of mercy set to take place? Front lawn of a gated community or out behind the barn on a few acres?
    Again,don't do this. I'v had to put down a family pet in a bad situation. It wasn't pretty, not the last memory you want. For even close to a quick death, shot placement has to be in one specific spot,not just to the side of the head.
    On a side note, I had a three legged war dog, best damn dog I ever had, glad someone didn't try to clean his ears by round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NORTHMITROFLATFOOT View Post
    Your "friend" is an idiot. Putting down a vicious dog, sure. Putting down a stray, maybe. Putting down your pet, not the best option. Tell your "friend" to pop for a home visit from the vet & have it done in his enviroment.
    Could this be construed as animal cruelty? Might be, but I don't see that. Certainly don't see it being filed on. Where is this act of mercy set to take place? Front lawn of a gated community or out behind the barn on a few acres?
    Again,don't do this. I'v had to put down a family pet in a bad situation. It wasn't pretty, not the last memory you want. For even close to a quick death, shot placement has to be in one specific spot,not just to the side of the head.
    On a side note, I had a three legged war dog, best damn dog I ever had, glad someone didn't try to clean his ears by round.

    Exactly. The vet doing it, is the way it needs to go. Both in the eyes of the Law- which no, you cannot get around, and in terms of a "humane" way of doing it. The shot from the vet is like the dog goes to sleep.
    No one wants ever to do that to their buddy, and on that I feel for the guy.
    North is right though, no matter how much he thinks it may be the right thing to do for his buddy,he will not want that as his last memory- it will stay with him forever,and he will end up hating himself for it.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NORTHMITROFLATFOOT View Post
    Your "friend" is an idiot.
    Yeah, he is some kind of idiot for considering the way people have been doing it for years... O_o

    Constructive criticism was probably never your "thing."
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Your probably right with the constructive criticism comment. I'm not trying to sound like an ass. Let me rephrase, in my personel opinion, your friend will regret shooting the dog. In my professioan opinion, it likely would not be prosecuted. If it is done, it should be done with no possible complaintants.
    When working in another country years ago, I witnessed "dog hunts". Basically police riding around in a truck, coming upon a pack of dogs and shooting as many as possible. Not pretty. It was done because of a great threat to the local community with roving packs of wild dogs. This was a third world or close to it country. We are not. Tell your friend to call a vet. Your also right on the comment of it being done this way for years. At one time we lit by candle & rode in wagons. There didn't use to be a vet on every corner. We have evolved, have your friend call the vet.

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    "the way people have been doing it for years"

    ...and once upon a time we all packed single-shot, smooth-bored, black-powder, ball-launching firearms, and died at the age of 30 or so due to fevers...shall we return to ALL the "old ways"?

    Heck, for that matter, if we're inclined towards "did it for years,that way" bring back Duels! (never was taken off the law-books, in Florida, actually)...

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    "Constructive criticism was probably never your "thing."

    And on this matter ^, something to think about: The fact that he and/or you paused before just going ahead and commiting this felony, indicates to us AND YOU, that instinctively, there was something possibly wrong about the idea. Legally, and otherwise.
    That's a good sign though, perhaps we must not give up hope for you, entirely..

    And "constructive" criticism belongs where it fits, and where the victim of it is receptive to it.
    That whole "no such thing as a dumb question " thing? That's just what we tell kids-in public- so they dont feel like complete idiots in front of their friends/family/classmates, etc.
    For "adults"?...mmm no.
    Last edited by j4l; 12-11-2011 at 02:02 PM.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    "Constructive criticism was probably never your "thing."

    And on this matter ^, something to think about: The fact that he and/or you paused before just going ahead and commiting this felony, indicates to us AND YOU, that instinctively, there was something possibly wrong about the idea. Legally, and otherwise.
    That's a good sign though, perhaps we must not give up hope for you, entirely..
    How did this have anything to do with constructive criticism? Do you just grab random quotes and say "WELL ON THAT NOTE THINK ABOUT THIS" lol. And how do we know this is a felony? Is there any case law on this? You cited 828.12 earlier. Have you read it?
    "(2) A person who intentionally commits an act to any animal which results in the cruel death...is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or both."

    What is the definition of a "cruel death?" Is instantly ending a dog's life with out any pain cruel? Or is letting the dog run on a lame leg until it snaps cruel? Maybe you should read 828?

    828.02 Definitions....the words “torture,” “torment,” and “cruelty” shall be held to include every act, omission, or neglect whereby unnecessary or unjustifiable pain or suffering is caused
    Would shooting a dog who NEEDS to be put down to stop pain be considered cruel by the law? Well, the act of putting the animal down is necessary and justifiable, and when done with a .357 MAG between the ears will not cause any pain or suffering.

    The pause before this decision doesn't indicate that instinctively something was wrong, the pause is because there are laws that govern every tiny detail of our lives now-a-days. Why wouldn't someone check the legality of discharging a firearm to end their dog's pain if they had never done it before?

    And "constructive" criticism belongs where it fits, and where the victim of it is receptive to it.
    That whole "no such thing as a dumb question " thing? That's just what we tell kids-in public- so they don't feel like complete idiots in front of their friends/family/classmates, etc.
    For "adults"?...mmm no.
    I really don't see how this isn't a valid question. I've talked to plenty of people who grew up around dogs who 'took care' of the dog themselves. To them it is shameful to let someone else put down your dog. To them it is a personal thing that you do FOR your 4 legged family member so they're not in pain. To call it a dumb question simply because YOU think you are the know all of the law is boarder line trolling IMO. But for today, the trolls will not be fed.


    Though these responses seem to be VERY opinionated and lack support by laws or case laws, I did learn a little bit about 828 and the definition of "cruelty" in the state of FL. I also learned that j4l is terrible with analogies.

    "the way people have been doing it for years"

    ...and once upon a time we all packed single-shot, smooth-bored, black-powder, ball-launching firearms, and died at the age of 30 or so due to fevers...shall we return to ALL the "old ways"?

    Heck, for that matter, if we're inclined towards "did it for years,that way" bring back Duels! (never was taken off the law-books, in Florida, actually)...
    Same type of argument argument the antis use against open carry. Good job. troll troll troll your boat, gently down the stream!
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    ^^^^^ And hence, the "dumb question" comment.
    Ty for clarifying, and validating it, for everyone with your emotional/hypersensitive, and knee-jerk responses.

    You criticize someone for "constructive criticism" or lack thereof. I commented that it only should be applied to those likely to accept it as such. Your level of immaturity proves ,beyond doubt, that you certainly ARENT capable of taking it as such, if even applied.

    Let's backtrack a bit, shall we? YOU posted to (potentially thousands) of complete strangers on an internet forum a question about something in which YOU lacked knowledge. You were provided the answer to said question. The fact there is perhaps little or even NO case law available on the subject one way or the other, or at least none that we yet know of
    (and lack the time or inclination to be your personal research assistants,when google can work the same for you as for us)
    doesnt mean the answer was wrong.

    The law is what the law is. Once informed of it, ignorance of it can no longer be claimed.
    Being a (supposedly) adult person of suspected sound mind, you and/or your pal can choose to interpret it as you wish- provided you understand from the word "go" that coming out on the wrong side of your own interpretation of it can have penalities that only you two can face for doing so.
    Be an adult, choose your action, and then prepare to man-up and deal with whatever the outcome may be. As with anything in the Statutes, you may see it -or not- one way, and a jury, if it ever came to that, may see it a completely different way- take your chances.

    But again -YOU posed the question to total strangers in an online message board.That, once again, tells us that because you had to stop and wonder about it, before taking an action on it, your gut was telling you maybe it's not the brightest idea to act on it. Personally, I say go with your intitial, gut instinct. Or ignore it altogether, your choice-that's why it's called Natural Selection.

  13. #13
    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    I would not advise this friend to shoot his own dog.

    The reason is simply this, if something should go awry, your friend does not want his dog's last breath to be taken while looking at his owner putting a bullet between his eyes.

    There is no "good" way to put a dog out of its misery. But, the way a vet does is more like drifting off to sleep.

    I had to shoot a stray dog that had been terrorizing the neighbors, my mom and sister, and then finally, my own dog. When it attacked my dog and had her down on the ground, I ran out and kicked the daylights out of it. My friend had a 20 gauge and let one loose in to the dogs chest at close range. It went down, but was still alive and looking at me when I finished it with a .38 to the head.

    Now, that dog was not mine and definitely not a part of my family. Even so, it was disconcerting to look in to its eyes before finishing it.

    I cannot imagine having to use a second shot on a dog I loved. That would be devastating.

    It is nice to think that we could allow our dog go out doing something it loved, such as catching a frisbee, but the chances that something could make it come out bad are there.

    Holding your dog and scratching its ears while it goes asleep, while not easy, will be far more peaceful for everyone.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    ^^^^^ And hence, the "dumb question" comment.
    Ty for clarifying, and validating it, for everyone with your emotional/hypersensitive, and knee-jerk responses.
    I bring in actual definitions from the law that YOU cited and instead of addressing that you attempt to bait me. You will not get a 'rise' out of me, as I have a PhD in trolling myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I've done some googling and I can't find any decent information out there. Does anyone have any personal experience like this they could share?
    lack the time or inclination to be your personal research assistants,when google can work the same for you as for us
    I didn't ask anyone to google anything for me.


    I was going to type up more of a response, but after reading your posts I've come to the conclusion that you're really just trolling. (which is fine by me)
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member Golden-Arm's Avatar
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    i have multiple dogs in my family, and once every year or so, time comes to put one down. a decent vet will take the dog into the back room, and introduce a catheter into one of it's legs, that will accept an i.v. the dog is then returned to you, in a private room, where you may spend some time with it, before the vet checks in, and asks you if you're ready. when you aare, you are able to hold the dog in your arms, lap, whatever, and talk to and comfort, while the injections are administered. the dog drifts off to sleep fairly rapidly, and the second injection "seals the deal". it's honestly the hardest thing i've ever done, each time i do it, but it's peaceful, painless and you're dogs last moments in life, are spent securely with you. the "cold steel table" deal, is what strays get aat the pound. if your vet doesnt work like this, it's time to find a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I bring in actual definitions from the law that YOU cited and instead of addressing that you attempt to bait me. You will not get a 'rise' out of me, as I have a PhD in trolling myself.




    I didn't ask anyone to google anything for me.


    I was going to type up more of a response, but after reading your posts I've come to the conclusion that you're really just trolling. (which is fine by me)

    Your surrender is accepted. And being defeated by someone's logic isnt trolling, it's just being defeated by someone else's logic, much as that may hurt to admit.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Arm View Post
    i have multiple dogs in my family, and once every year or so, time comes to put one down. a decent vet will take the dog into the back room, and introduce a catheter into one of it's legs, that will accept an i.v. the dog is then returned to you, in a private room, where you may spend some time with it, before the vet checks in, and asks you if you're ready. when you aare, you are able to hold the dog in your arms, lap, whatever, and talk to and comfort, while the injections are administered. the dog drifts off to sleep fairly rapidly, and the second injection "seals the deal". it's honestly the hardest thing i've ever done, each time i do it, but it's peaceful, painless and you're dogs last moments in life, are spent securely with you. the "cold steel table" deal, is what strays get aat the pound. if your vet doesnt work like this, it's time to find a new one.
    You're input is much appreciated and by the sounds of it the vet is going to end up being the final destination for this puppy.

    Your surrender is accepted. And being defeated by someone's logic isnt trolling, it's just being defeated by someone else's logic, much as that may hurt to admit.
    So persistent. I know your over there tapping F5 repeatedly, awaiting my response to the tune of, "OMG I HAVEN'T BEEN DEFEATED YOUR LOGIC SUCKS." It's okay, trolling isn't easy when you first start. j4l, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    You're input is much appreciated and by the sounds of it the vet is going to end up being the final destination for this puppy.


    So persistent. I know your over there tapping F5 repeatedly, awaiting my response to the tune of, "OMG I HAVEN'T BEEN DEFEATED YOUR LOGIC SUCKS." It's okay, trolling isn't easy when you first start. j4l, I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

    It's ok, kiddo. We understand that interweb butthurt just...hurts.. You'll be ok by morning..


  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  20. #20
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    Indeed. All this is keeping you up waaay past your bedtime, and we dont want you to miss the bus in the morning because you overslept.
    Study hard.
    You'll need it for tomorrow..

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Ya know, in all honesty, I was kidding about the "kid/child" stuff -at first.
    And then I looked..

    "Basic Information

    Age
    22 "






    'nuff said. All further comments, complaints, posts by you= null and void. Come back in about... 25 yrs or so.





    ......no wonder..

  23. #23
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    I mean... wow...just ... wow.. 22? Rly?



  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    <insert raging reply here in caps lock about how angry I am that you would call me a child at age 22>
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    22 - the end.


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