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Continuum of Force

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
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Security Guard: That dude right there (pointing at you from the witness stand) saved my life by shooting those two dudes that was putting a beat-down on me. I would not be here today if it were not for that fella.

It could happen....

That man right there, shot 2 members of our cast while filming our pilot series for TV........it could happen :p
 

Felid`Maximus

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Nov 12, 2007
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Reno, Nevada, USA
But you only have to buy it once, unless you're goofing around & fire one not in self-defense.

Training cartridges are $20 each. I would want to train with the device a little. They have lasers, but the prongs spread, and the device has a ridiculously short range, especially the version sold to civilians. And the civilian versions also only get one attempt to hit the target.

Nobody else can use the one you dropped, because you have to enter a code to activate it & when replacing a cartridge.
Sounds like a major pain if you want to replace cartridges for your own use to have to enter a code.
 
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Grapeshot

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Training cartridges are $20 each. I would want to train with the device a little. They have lasers, but the prongs spread, and the device has a ridiculously short range, especially the version sold to civilians. And the civilian versions also only get one attempt to hit the target.


Sounds like a major pain if you want to replace cartridges for your own use to have to enter a code.

The "code" is supplied by the manufacturer only to approved sales/persons.

Recognize that what they are trying to do is prevent the BG from getting his dirty little paws on the good stuff. Problem is with such measures is that it also effects the good guys (by far the majority) equally.
 

jdholmes

Regular Member
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Jan 27, 2011
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Henderson, Nevada
In Canada we had very strict laws on defending yourself and your home....basically like the UK seems to be, it basically comes down to matching force...you can't punch him if he hasn't shown equal aggression. If he is walking away with your tv, but hasn't shown you physical aggression towards you then you are left pretty much without defense if you harm him.

However...the loophole is similar to the key that was posted previously.."If you fear for your life..."

My Dad was a police officer for over 20 years and always told us that if we stuck with simple and specific wording we would be alright in court.

"I feared for my life..."..."I feared for my families life."...did you try to kill him? "No, I used what means I had to stop him out of fear for my life."


Look...I am 5'8" and 140 lbs soaking wet...If a couple guys are coming at me with fists, there is no way I am fending them off with fists...heck if one guy is trying to put a beating on me or rob me, I feel I have reason to fear for my life.

Police officers have different levels of force because of the many different situations they are required to respond to, and as said before...we don't have to respond to the loud guy at burger king, they do. If loud guy turns into bad guy and draws a weapon, I have reason to believe my life or the lives of others in the establishment are in danger...different story.
 

jdholmes

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Messages
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Location
Henderson, Nevada
In way of question re: owning a baton here. I see the law quoted referring to a billy...a billy is different than a baton...so I guess I am unsure why we can't own a baton...
 

DVC

Regular Member
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City? Who wants to live in a CITY?, Nevada, USA
Let's look more closely:

NRS 200.160 Additional cases of justifiable homicide. HOMICIDE [the taking of human life by another human, intentionally or as a result of intentional action which a reasonable person would assume is likely to take life -- this section implies also the threat of such action] is also justifiable when committed:

1. In the LAWFUL DEFENSE [not while committing a crime] [. . .] of ANY OTHER PERSON [whether or not you know the person you are defending], in his or her presence or company, when there is REASONABLE GROUND TO APPREHEND A DESIGN [if a reasonable person would believe it] on the part of the person slain to COMMIT A FELONY [there are a lot of felonies, from rape to burglary to robbery to arson of occupied buildings] OR to do some GREAT PERSONAL INJURY [you don't have to know if the beating is of the level of a felony] to the slayer or to any such person, AND there is IMMINENT DANGER [means, opportunity and apparent intent] of such design being accomplished . . .

In other words, yes, you can use deadly force to defend the security guard against a beating, BUT when the danger has passed, the justification expires.
 

Grapeshot

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In way of question re: owning a baton here. I see the law quoted referring to a billy...a billy is different than a baton...so I guess I am unsure why we can't own a baton...

Many state laws contain the wording "like kind" or similar to that, and some judges base their decisions on such thinking.

Still it's enough of a difference IMO that a good attorney should have sufficient cause to correct such misinterpretation.
 

varminter22

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
927
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Originally Posted by 28kfps Nevada does not have a castle law, per se, despite multiple attempts by state legislators to enact such a law. However, the state does not require a duty to retreat by crime victims and allows for the use of deadly force in some circumstances.For physical or deadly force to be justified in Nevada, a person must believe that his life or safety, or the life or safety of another, is in jeopardy. He also must use no more force than is necessary to subdue the attacker.
Cite? I do not recall seeing that specific in the NRS.

I've never heard that either.
 

Felid`Maximus

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Reno, Nevada, USA
I see the law quoted referring to a billy...a billy is different than a baton...so I guess I am unsure why we can't own a baton...

I don't understand what the difference is between a billy and a baton. I'd like to understand. Can you explain what the difference is or how one could distinguish a billy from other types of sticks like batons?
 
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jdholmes

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Messages
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Henderson, Nevada
Maybe there is no difference down here...up home when my father was chief of polie for a town they all carried what they referred to as 'billy clubs'...they were the classic short, thick, L shaped ones. When the RCMP took over they issued 'batons'. These were the collapsible, long, skinny style.

The training for the use was different on the batons then the billy clubs...mostly because the billy club wasn't just swung like a regular old stick, the L handle shape allowed it to be used differently...I think he said there were advantages to both...the baton was light and quick...had more length...

Perhaps the words are interchangeable...
 

gmijackso

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Jan 31, 2010
Messages
208
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Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
I don't understand what the difference is between a billy and a baton. I'd like to understand. Can you explain what the difference is or how one could distinguish a billy from other types of sticks like batons?

Here is my understanding of the differences. This is just my experiences growing up, around police officer friends and family, and working in a military surplus store for several years supplying "odd" weapons to the masses and to police officers. It is in NO way a legal definition.

This, is what a Billy Club has always been to me. Basic definition is that it is generally pretty short, and has flexibility.
http://www.amazon.com/Rothco-Flexible-Leather-Billy-Club/dp/B000UPOMRM

This is what was commonly referred to as a Night Stick. It was what police officers carried when I was a kid. It is also often called a baton. I believe the "real" name is a Tonfa as it is an Asian weapon in its history.
http://www.amazon.com/General-Edge-...sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1323937009&sr=1-14

This is what is most commonly referred to as a "baton" today. More accurately a "collapsible baton". Baton is a literal French translation to stick, so really most any shape is a baton. These are what have become more frequently carried by police officers today.
http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wesson-...=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1323937009&sr=1-1

Hope it helps some.
 
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