OC in Schools Afterhours

Scotchman · Dec 11, 2011

I have a question that I think is easy but want a second opinion to make sure. I attend an Amateurr Radio Club meeting which uses an Elementary School for its monthly evening meetings. I started to OC back in August and now "someone is scared by it and has asked the club to request I leave it behind"....

The simply answer to me seems that the answer is, I dont need to. I attend with my kids and it is late at night and therefore safer to be armed.

Am I correct that there is nothing they can really do other than harrass me? Or should I back away? My kids would rather continue the meetings if we can.

thanks, I know it is probably very simple but thought I should ask you guys.

I made sure that they got the MPS update. They admit that they know the law now! I just want to make sure that the School will still not be an issue and if not... That other newbies like myself never get intimidated by the fear-mongers out there.

TheQ · Dec 11, 2011

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?80987-No-OC-Waterford-Schools

Read that thread and decide what's best for you and your situation.

stainless1911 · Dec 12, 2011

Good advice.

Its an instruction manual to show the .gov how to screw a person out of using thier God given rights.

Just remember, OCers are the first line of defense for the students in this state. There are no other protections in place for them at this time. They may be able to catch the blood on video, but that's the best effort thus-far.

CV67 PAT · Dec 12, 2011

TheQ said:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?80987-No-OC-Waterford-Schools

Read that thread and decide what's best for you and your situation.

Why doesn't anyone else have problems like this? Just sayin'.

Glock9mmOldStyle · Dec 12, 2011

Here's an idea

I would ask the club to sign a document stating that they assure your safety and are fully responsible for you and yours safety / well being, while attending the meetings and while on the property. Do so in a friendly manner. They of course will NOT sign it. Then you can ask them: "if they are not going to take responsibility for your safety, then why shouldn't you?" Watch the baffled looks as the try to spin their way out of a valid question to their irrational response to your legal OC??? Then ask them if you carried concealed (don't it would break the law) would they be okay? If they say CC is fine ask them why a pistol out of sight is okay? It would be smart to carry a voice recorder at minimal or even better a stealth video recorder so you can post their responses

I think you will probably find that you will either have to give up your right to self defense or face more issues from them and the School district.

It's not right or lawful, but they get away with it most of the time in my honest opinion.

stainless1911 · Dec 12, 2011

CV67 PAT said:
Why doesn't anyone else have problems like this? Just sayin'.

Go to Waterford to watch the next high school game, bake sale or whatever OCing, and let us know how it goes.

FWIW, everything that was done at Waterford was done "by the book".

CV67 PAT · Dec 12, 2011

stainless1911 said:
Go to Waterford to watch the next high school game, bake sale or whatever OCing, and let us know how it goes.

FWIW, everything that was done at Waterford was done "by the book".

Already done that. Went last fall with my friend and his son. We were not unnoticed either.

Maybe a different "book" is in order.

Glock9mmOldStyle · Dec 12, 2011

stainless1911 said:
Go to Waterford to watch the next high school game, bake sale or whatever OCing, and let us know how it goes.

FWIW, everything that was done at Waterford was done "by the book".

CV67 PAT said:
Already done that. Went last fall with my friend and his son. We were not unnoticed either.

Maybe a different "book" is in order.

This is just my opinion here: Pat is vastly different in appearance then Stainless (I am told age/social status/etc..) is. Should this matter? In a perfect world no. But I suspect if Stainless showed up to school to visit his child driving a BMW and wearing business clothes the welcome he received may have been very different. Not fair or legal but the truth in my honest opinion.

CV67 PAT · Dec 12, 2011

Glock9mmOldStyle said:
This is just my opinion here: Pat is vastly different in appearance then Stainless (I am told age/social status/etc..) is. Should this matter? In a perfect world no. But I suspect if Stainless showed up to school to visit his child driving a BMW and wearing business clothes the welcome he received may have been very different. Not fair or legal but the truth in my honest opinion.

Different... yes.

Scruffy long haired, bearded biker.

Not a single negative encounter in Michigan.

It's not how we look as much as how we act.

Las Vegas 2008 very bad experience on the strip. Thanks to Nevada AG and Nevada Dept of Public Safety for their intervention, LVMPD has been "trained."

TheQ · Dec 12, 2011

I posted that thread to show the OP the experience another person had in Waterford -- then the person could see what they MIGHT be in for if they decide to push forward.

Then again the OP might take Legal Update 86 with them next time and everyone might go, "oh, okay. No problem!"

It's the OP's path and his personal choice.

Scotchman · Dec 12, 2011

I DID give them a copy of MSP Update 86 and they understand that I am acting Legally. they are just "asking me not to". Seems I stirred a hornets nest. I just wanted to make sure that as they are not even the School but just a renter of the gym afterhours - that their asking is also meaningless.

This is my first negative encounter and I want it to go as well as possible for the benefit of all OCers.

stainless1911 · Dec 12, 2011

I tried giving them that, as well as having the laws printed, in hand, but they would not so much as look at them.

The audio is posted for all to hear on my youtube channel, from the first time I OCed at the school to the conference at the local PD with Venator, myself, the principal, head of security the security officer, the Deputy Chief for the Waterford PD, and the PD attorney, Louis Furino. The Attorney misrepresented the laws, both actively and by omission in order to achieve the desired "interpretation" of the law.

Encounter was here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWRJYlGTxQ4&list=UU1BXJgl5ghLczDVvSKjHonQ&feature=plcp

You can follow up from my channel here : http://www.youtube.com/user/stainless1911?feature=mhee

CV67 PAT · Dec 12, 2011

stainless1911 said:
I tried giving them that, as well as having the laws printed, in hand, but they would not so much as look at them.

The audio is posted for all to hear on my youtube channel, from the first time I OCed at the school to the conference at the local PD with Venator, myself, the principal, head of security the security officer, the Deputy Chief for the Waterford PD, and the PD attorney, Louis Furino. The Attorney misrepresented the laws, both actively and by omission in order to achieve the desired "interpretation" of the law.

Encounter was here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWRJYlGTxQ4&list=UU1BXJgl5ghLczDVvSKjHonQ&feature=plcp

You can follow up from my channel here : http://www.youtube.com/user/stainless1911?feature=mhee

If you so adamantly believe that what you are doing is lawful, why don't you just stand your ground and do it?

stainless1911 · Dec 12, 2011

They have given me a written no trespass order.

Given the opportunity to carry in any other district, I can, and will.

CV67 PAT · Dec 12, 2011

stainless1911 said:
They have given me a written no trespass order.

Given the opportunity to carry in any other district, I can, and will.

You can be trespassed from public property upon which you have a lawful purpose for being present?

You have received legal counsel that has advised you of the lawfulness of this order?

Bronson · Dec 13, 2011

Scotchman said:
their asking is also meaningless.

Tell them that you're uncomfortable with them not carrying and you are politely asking that all members, that are legaly able, carry an openly visible pistol. When they say they can't do that ask them why another members discomfort is given more consideration than yours.

Bronson

stainless1911 · Dec 13, 2011

CV67 PAT said:
You can be trespassed from public property upon which you have a lawful purpose for being present?

You have received legal counsel that has advised you of the lawfulness of this order?

Yes, and yes.

The only way is to take a trespass at this point, and then fight it out in court. The PD attorney already said that they would take it to appeals if I prevailed.

Scotchman · Dec 13, 2011

Bronson said:
Tell them that you're uncomfortable with them not carrying and you are politely asking that all members, that are legaly able, carry an openly visible pistol. When they say they can't do that ask them why another members discomfort is given more consideration than yours.

Bronson

Thank You. I really like that. The meeting is Wednesday and I am more encouraged to go and stand firm.

Thanks

HKcarrier · Dec 13, 2011

stainless1911 said:
Yes, and yes.

The only way is to take a trespass at this point, and then fight it out in court. The PD attorney already said that they would take it to appeals if I prevailed.

I wish someone with some DEEP pockets would subsidize Brainless on this one... just based on principle... "we don't care if you're legal, we'll just be such a PITA and abuse the system that you'll comply". Bull Squeeze.

Venator · Dec 13, 2011

HKcarrier said:
I wish someone with some DEEP pockets would subsidize Brainless on this one... just based on principle... "we don't care if you're legal, we'll just be such a PITA and abuse the system that you'll comply". Bull Squeeze.

No offense to Stainless, but maybe DEEP pockets and a "Boy Scout" type to take on this issue.

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