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Thread: New tactic from the anti-gun lobby: Gun Rights threaten LEOs!

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    New tactic from the anti-gun lobby: Gun Rights threaten LEOs!

    Realizing now that background checks can't possibly work on stopping those Americans who have no disqualifying red flags in their background from getting and misusing guns, it now appears the Hoplophobe Bunch is shifting gears to win over the Law & Order Republicans who rarely say no to cops: Gun Rights are dangerous to law enforcement:

    Fresh Va. Tech tragedy renews political gun debate

    Us:
    "Our agenda is fairly active this year," Philip Van Cleave told The Associated Press on Saturday as students placed flowers at an impromptu memorial to slain officer Deriek Crouse in a parking lot beside Tech's famed football stadium.

    Van Cleave's organization, the Virginia Citizens Defense League, and its gun-toting disciples who converge on Capitol Square each winter will lobby to prevent state agencies — including colleges — from banning guns on campus. For Van Cleave, the issue is simple. Free, law-abiding people have a fundamental right guaranteed in the Constitution to carry firearms to defend themselves and their homes.

    "Our belief is that you have to protect yourself from crime. It again just reminds everybody that there's some awfully vicious people out there," Van Cleave said.
    Them:
    Besides the monthly single-pistol limitation and the guns-on-campus initiative, gun-rights forces hope to advance bills that would make it even easier to obtain permits to carry concealed weapons, eliminate state background checks, broaden the legal principle that allows people in their homes to shoot intruders and keep guns of unlimited firepower free of government oversight as long as they are wholly built in Virginia and never taken beyond its borders.

    "All of these measures threaten law enforcement. They put law enforcement in danger," said Lori Haas, whose relentless efforts to restrict gun access began after her daughter Emily was shot in the head during Seung-Hui Cho's one-man massacre at Virginia Tech on April 16, 2007.

    Maybe, Haas says, what matters isn't the number of people slain by those who never should have access to guns, but who those people are — particularly whether they're close to state policymakers.

    "Are we going to wait to react when it's one of their colleagues, their loved ones, their family members?" she said. "Frankly, 'how many have to be killed to get their attention' hasn't worked."

    "It's just shocking to me how legislators just pander to the leadership to the gun lobby," she said.

    Andrew Goddard, whose son Colin was wounded during Cho's 2007 rampage, said it's time lawmakers paid at least as much attention to those who wear badges and face the risk of gun violence every day as they do to pro-gun lobbyists. Perhaps Crouse's slaying gives that message more currency.

    "When our police officers go to the General Assembly and say something about public safety, they should listen to them," Goddard said.
    So basically, to Goddard and Haas, the lives of badge-wearers are more important than anyone else's, apparently.

  2. #2
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    Anyone with more than one brain cell should be able to figure out that if LEO's, who are ALWAYS ARMED, are at risk of being shot, then so are the average citizen's of this country.

    Anti-gun people = people with one or less brain cell

    This explains everything...

  3. #3
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    ^^^

    yep.
    it's quite clear that anyone who'd shoot a police officer, a person presumed to be armed and with some level of firearm proficiency training, would have no fear of the disarmed populace. i want no part of being one of the fish in *that* barrel.

    when did logical, critical thinking disappear? this cr@p boggles the mind...
    Last edited by mk4; 12-12-2011 at 05:18 PM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Yet once again Haas demonstrates what a piece of work she is:

    Maybe, Haas says, what matters isn't the number of people slain by those who never should have access to guns, but who those people are — particularly whether they're close to state policymakers.

    "Are we going to wait to react when it's one of their colleagues, their loved ones, their family members?"
    I have not seen anything this insulting to the integrity of legislators in a long time, to suggest that they only care about the lives and safety of their own friends and family and not at all for their constituents. Every time this lady opens her mouth, her foot ends up inside.

    Of course, entirely foreign to her would be the concept that the laws as they are now, and as we hope to change this session, actually do increase safety for everyone, family, friends and relatives of the legislators included.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Yet once again Haas demonstrates what a piece of work she is:



    I have not seen anything this insulting to the integrity of legislators in a long time, to suggest that they only care about the lives and safety of their own friends and family and not at all for their constituents. Every time this lady opens her mouth, her foot ends up inside.

    Of course, entirely foreign to her would be the concept that the laws as they are now, and as we hope to change this session, actually do increase safety for everyone, family, friends and relatives of the legislators included.

    TFred
    Lori is losing more followers every day. This is just a desperate and pretty stupid move to get something going.

    I'm working on a new crusade to keep her busy.
    Stay Tuned for the Farm Show Loophole.
    You have no idea how many innocent people are killed and injured every year...by chainsaws.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Lori is losing more followers every day. This is just a desperate and pretty stupid move to get something going.

    I'm working on a new crusade to keep her busy.
    Stay Tuned for the Farm Show Loophole.
    You have no idea how many innocent people are killed and injured every year...by chainsaws.
    I would stand in line for the midnight showing of this one!

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I would stand in line for the midnight showing of this one!

    TFred
    I think that loophole can be plugged

    Last edited by peter nap; 12-12-2011 at 11:43 PM.

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    The thing that consistently surprises me about Ms. Haas (a German name, by the way, "Hawes" is Scottish, and should not be confused with "Haas") - is that her daughter was assaulted in a place that meets her own criteria for public safety. Everyone in the school at the time was unarmed except the assailant, whom I suppose we could agree was acting as an outlaw. The law of the place where her daughter was killed is precisely as she says she wants the world to be. The macabre implication is that at some psychological level, she seeks the death of others similarly situated. I'd sure like to be able to investigate her personal history and find out what happened to her as a child to cause her to be this way.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Thumbs down badge-wearers are more important than anyone else's

    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post

    So basically, to Goddard and Haas, the lives of badge-wearers are more important than anyone else's, apparently.

    They aren't the first! How do you think H.R. 218 got passed!
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    No to be taken lightly

    A CHP threat to LEO's is from the fantasy land that Haas lives in. That being said; I do not think we should take this new fantasy lightly. The anti's have no base from which to project political power so they are ignored, which ferments more desperation on their part. While this is a desperate attempt to divide the public between 2nd amendment supporters and LEO's they have their "proof" on every TV screen in VA. Far too many movements have used nothing more than smoke and mirrors to push an agenda in the legislature but, more importantly in the court of public opinion. This could be where we are most vulnerable; if the anti 2nd's can get the lie to catch on with the public despite no truth to the claim, the public can and will be swayed to their side ( LEO's side ). The media will repeat this over and over until it become accepted fact and PC ( Political correctness ) will keep many LEO's from speaking up.

    Once again the liberals have done what liberals do best LIE to achieve their ends.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docgmt View Post
    A CHP threat to LEO's is from the fantasy land that Haas lives in. That being said; I do not think we should take this new fantasy lightly. The anti's have no base from which to project political power so they are ignored, which ferments more desperation on their part. While this is a desperate attempt to divide the public between 2nd amendment supporters and LEO's they have their "proof" on every TV screen in VA. Far too many movements have used nothing more than smoke and mirrors to push an agenda in the legislature but, more importantly in the court of public opinion. This could be where we are most vulnerable; if the anti 2nd's can get the lie to catch on with the public despite no truth to the claim, the public can and will be swayed to their side ( LEO's side ). The media will repeat this over and over until it become accepted fact and PC ( Political correctness ) will keep many LEO's from speaking up.

    Once again the liberals have done what liberals do best LIE to achieve their ends.
    That's true and expect them to have a pet LEO or two to speak for them.
    We just have to deal with it one at a time.
    vimeo;19580169
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-13-2011 at 10:04 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docgmt View Post
    A CHP threat to LEO's is from the fantasy land that Haas lives in. That being said; I do not think we should take this new fantasy lightly. The anti's have no base from which to project political power so they are ignored, which ferments more desperation on their part. While this is a desperate attempt to divide the public between 2nd amendment supporters and LEO's they have their "proof" on every TV screen in VA. Far too many movements have used nothing more than smoke and mirrors to push an agenda in the legislature but, more importantly in the court of public opinion. This could be where we are most vulnerable; if the anti 2nd's can get the lie to catch on with the public despite no truth to the claim, the public can and will be swayed to their side ( LEO's side ). The media will repeat this over and over until it become accepted fact and PC ( Political correctness ) will keep many LEO's from speaking up.

    Once again the liberals have done what liberals do best LIE to achieve their ends.
    That's true and expect them to have a pet LEO or two to speak for them.
    We just have to deal with it one at a time.




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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    One thing that has always amazed, and even irritated me to an extent, is how people can get so worked up and outraged when a police officer is killed in the line of duty but no so much when "ordinary" folk are murdered. To me the murder of an officer is tragic and a very sad thing. But then again, it is also very tragic when ANY innocent party who is murdered. I fail to see where an LEO's life is any more precious or significant that anyone else's life which is lost at the hands of a criminal. To suggest that the life of my wife and daughters is somehow less significant than that of a police officer.... well, I hardly have words for this one.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 12-13-2011 at 10:52 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    One thing that has always amazed, and even irritated me to an extent, is how people can get so worked up and outraged when a police officer is killed in the line of duty but no so much when "ordinary" folk are murdered. To me the murder of an officer is tragic and a very sad thing. But then again, it is also very tragic when ANY innocent party who is murdered. I fail to see where an LEO's life is any more precious or significant that anyone else's life which is lost at the hands of a criminal. To suggest that the life of my wife and daughters is somehow less significant than that of a police officer.... well, I hardly have words for this one.
    I've often wondered the same thing.

    I think it's because of the chest thumping LEO's do about putting their life on the line for thee and me.
    I once pointed out to Novacop that being a LEO was fairly safe compared to Roofing and similar trades. He had his usual hissy fits.

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    Southernboy

    All of them are tragic and “would not happen if we just let Haas have her way”. It's the rarity of the event and the media that plays it up. While a number of LEO's were wounded this past weekend, because it was VT the media knew they could make ratings out of it. It also puts a dent in societies idea that these guys are there to keep us safe and if they are not, then who is? ( Yes it is a false premise but there none the less)

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    This argument never ceases to amaze me. The stupid anti-gun idiots absolutely love to point out how law abiding gun owners are nothing but potential criminals.

    The moronic fools can't see the sheer, mind-numbing, stupidity of their own argument:

    EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD who hasn't broken the law yet is a freekin' potential criminal.

    It's like saying teen girls can be potential mothers. DUH!......ANY female that was ever BORN is a potential mother.

    The way it is phrased makes it seem ominous but has no basis in reality. This is their entire argument in a nutshell. NONE of their arguments have any BASIS IN REALITY. Thier "spooky" boogeyman, and fabricated sound bites exist in a world where the actual, concrete fact of existence is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that matters to them is the "feeling" of safety, the warm fuzziness of appearances, and the comfort of emotional calm.

    To them (anti-gunners), if it "feels" safe, if it "looks" nice, and if it doesn't agitate their emotional fear...it HAS to be good.

    If it "feels" dangerous, "looks" scary, and causes alarm...is HAS to be bad.

    Reality has nothing to do with it. Facts are irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    ...Goddard and Haas...
    What I really don't understand is out of all the anti-gun people, these two have no reason to be. Had there been legally armed citizens on Campus back it 2007 it would be possible, and very likely probable, that their children would not have been shot.

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    I fail to see where an LEO's life is any more precious or significant that anyone else's life which is lost at the hands of a criminal. To suggest that the life of my wife and daughters is somehow less significant than that of a police officer.... well, I hardly have words for this one.
    A police officer puts his life on the line protecting you, don't you know? Every day he puts on the uniform he doesn't know if he's going to go home after his shift because he's "defending" us. He has made it his work to sacrifice himself for our safety, don't you see?

    And if you so much as even suggest that he's nothing more than a municipal revenue collector, well you're just a cop hater and you don't know what they go through every day. You've never "been there" so you don't know and therefor are not entitled to make any observations of their actions.

    How dare you suggest that there are bad cops and that the occasional "accidentally" murdered citizen is cause to be untrusting of the entire breed! After all, when serving a no-knock warrant with a SWAT team which makes a convoy detail in Fallujah look undermanned, you can never be too careful, especially relying on a paid informant's (snitch) word! Brawk - OFFICER SAFETY - Brawk.

    I would go as far as to say you're unpatriotic if you don't bow down at their feet and lick the soles of their shoes for all of the things they do for you, you ungrateful peasant.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Thank God you folks didn't shred me to pieces about my post regarding the murder of police officers. I was NOT doing any sort of bashing of any kind. It's just that I view people's lives as important and significant regardless of what they do for a living... unless, of course, they are criminal types and similar miscreants. I was half expecting after wrote that to get dragged over the coals for being so "calloused" and "uncaring". Good to see others feel the same about those for whom they care deeply.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Thank God you folks didn't shred me to pieces about my post regarding the murder of police officers. I was NOT doing any sort of bashing of any kind. It's just that I view people's lives as important and significant regardless of what they do for a living... unless, of course, they are criminal types and similar miscreants. I was half expecting after wrote that to get dragged over the coals for being so "calloused" and "uncaring". Good to see others feel the same about those for whom they care deeply.
    Shred you? Heck no! LEOs, military, fishermen, loggers and farmers (just to name a few) have hazardous jobs. Many people go to work everyday and wonder if they will come home that night. If they live in the USA, they weren't forced into their chosen profession. They all volunteered. They also accept their pay, even if they feel they are underpaid for the work they perform. I firmly believe there are many people in our country that are overpaid: Congressmen, Senators and most senior federal workers.

    Bottom Line: We knew the risks when we "signed on" for the job. We knew how much (or how little) we would be paid. We accept a paycheck once or twice a month (or more) for the work performed.

    I do feel some lives are worth more than others... I believe the lives of criminals that have committed serious crimes (crimes that harm others) aren't worth paying. Prisoners are PAID in jail. Why? Whatever pay they receive work they perform should go right back to paying for the air they breathe, food they eat and chothes they wear. Is there a "surplus" of cash from the work they have performed? Give it back to the local or state governments. Multiple offenders obviously have some sort of uncurable disease and are a danger to society. Why pay to keep them alive?

    Sorry for wandering OT...
    Last edited by MSC 45ACP; 12-13-2011 at 02:23 PM.
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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    The thing that consistently surprises me about Ms. Haas (a German name, by the way, "Hawes" is Scottish, and should not be confused with "Haas") - is that her daughter was assaulted in a place that meets her own criteria for public safety. Everyone in the school at the time was unarmed except the assailant, whom I suppose we could agree was acting as an outlaw. The law of the place where her daughter was killed is precisely as she says she wants the world to be. The macabre implication is that at some psychological level, she seeks the death of others similarly situated. I'd sure like to be able to investigate her personal history and find out what happened to her as a child to cause her to be this way.
    Hey my last name is Haas. Maybe I should OC at rally's more and try to get my name printed next to hers just to confuse people. Oh and my ancestry is Prussian.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    Hey my last name is Haas. Maybe I should OC at rally's more and try to get my name printed next to hers just to confuse people. Oh and my ancestry is Prussian.
    I'm confused. Is this Haas, too?

    Dan

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    Regular Member altajava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Lori is losing more followers every day. This is just a desperate and pretty stupid move to get something going.

    I'm working on a new crusade to keep her busy.
    Stay Tuned for the Farm Show Loophole.
    You have no idea how many innocent people are killed and injured every year...by chainsaws.
    Chainsaws aint nothin'. I know of more people that have gone through a chipper than have been maimed by a chainsaw. Where is the outcry to ban chippers!

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    Get more LEO support



    Getting back on track as it were; We should work on getting more LEO support. VCDL has held a few meetings with different police departments around the state that were very positive. Putting a face on the CHP holder for the police eliminates some of the unknown for that cops when dealing with the public. We should turn this into a positive for us and a negative for them. They are the ones that created the tension between the police and the public in the first place. It was and still is the left that calls America's bravest PIGs or BACON, treating them with disrespect and contempt.

    Should be an easy move on our part.

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docgmt View Post

    Getting back on track as it were; We should work on getting more LEO support. VCDL has held a few meetings with different police departments around the state that were very positive.
    Which meetings were they?

    Getting the cooperation of the various PD's, other than places like York, is impossible. Administration is Administration and the Union is the Union.

    Better to concentrate on support that gives more than lip service and a knife in the back.

    To quote a high ranking Henrico officer when Shall Issue was being considered..."I'll resign if that passes".
    It passed and he's still there, higher on the food chain and that's what you're trying to get support from.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-14-2011 at 01:11 PM.

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