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Thread: Double Edged Knifes

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Double Edged Knifes

    I think I remember someone said double edged knives are illegal, federal law, I think.

    My son sharpened the back edge on one of his hunting knives. Before I grind it down, defacing his craftmanship, I want to make sure that it is infact illegal. Please, if you can, cite the law so that I can cite it to him, so he does not get mad at me.

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    Regular Member msteinhilber's Avatar
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    No idea on the legality, but have you told him how dumb of an idea that is (in my opinion) as it can really make the knife less useful. I prefer a flag 90 degree grind on the back edge, without it's a hell of a lot harder to baton the knife with another piece of wood to split wood or perform other cuts to aid with making shelter or anything else if you had to. You lose the ability to use your thumb along the backside to aid with control or leverage. Just seems like a silly idea in my opinion, legality aside it's really taking function away from a good blade.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msteinhilber View Post
    No idea on the legality, but have you told him how dumb of an idea that is (in my opinion) as it can really make the knife less useful. I prefer a flag 90 degree grind on the back edge, without it's a hell of a lot harder to baton the knife with another piece of wood to split wood or perform other cuts to aid with making shelter or anything else if you had to. You lose the ability to use your thumb along the backside to aid with control or leverage. Just seems like a silly idea in my opinion, legality aside it's really taking function away from a good blade.
    You amke a good point. All I told him was what he did was a felony. IDK if it is, but I had to say it. He does have several other knives.

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sounds like your son wants a "combat" knife, not a working tool or defensive option.

    Anytime one modifies a weapon themselves from the original design, there is the risk that an aggressive prosecutor will use that fact against you.

    Knife laws are many and varied + not always (seldom?) included in state preemption. Add to that that there are frequently local ordinances that have an effect.

    You might continue your query here:
    http://www.knife-expert.com/sta-law.htm#S-W
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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I have a dagger that has 1/2 of the top sharpened (purchased that way), its made to fit in a sheath that can fit into a boot or other like footwear. Couldn't tell you why its only sharpened half way though.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Many states have laws prohibiting the concealed carry of certain species of knife, such as bowie and dirk. Now, you ask, just what is a bowie knife or a dirk? The answer to that is not as clear-cut as one might imagine, and often the non-difference between two knives has been decided in court to be the difference between guilt and innocense. Check your state's knife laws carefully - it may not be illegal to posses/carry a double-edged knife but it is illegal to carry one in a concealed manner. (941.23 https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/941/III/23 ) That seems to be the situation in Wisconsin - that carrying any knife in a concealed manner may be considered illegal even though there seems to be an "understanding" that most knives under 3 inches are not considered dangerous weapons - except in Milwaukee.

    bigdaddy1 - the "false edge" on the spine of your knife is there to make penetration easier. That grind is usually not brought to a sharp edge. And carrying it concealed in your boot could (see above) get you in trouble in Wisconsin.

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    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    There is no enforced federal law about double edged "combat" type knives. There may be one, but it isn't enforced to the point that it is basically perfectly legal. A "dive knife" often is indistinguishable from the blade profile excepting a blunted tip and a non-symmetrical grip. So unless whomever is saying it's illegal is actually quoting law, it's in the "hearsay" category.

    If he wants a combat knife (no, not particularly useful, but as a self-defense tool they'll punch through just about any clothing and a good portion of the bone over a rib cage) Smith and Wesson makes a decent one for cheap. And putting in "boot knife" in amazon.com will bring up any number to choose from that are inexpensive.

    Note though, by ceasing this messing with the knife you may not really be helping anything. Sometimes it's the "see what I can do" type project and not really any useful goal. I have dozens of half-finished "ideas" lying around my apartment like that. The tinkering tendencies of your son should not be punished by you... sometimes it's a fun hobby or a good career budding....

    You might want to see if he wants to make his own knife from scratch using some spring steel or a file. There's a whole bunch of people that do that.
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  8. #8
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    The legal definition of switchblade, illegal to have/carry in Wisconsin, includes many pocketknives in regular use/commerce - and mine. A drop point blade is typically sharpened for some portion of the back.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 12-13-2011 at 07:28 AM.

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    I have a knife that is fully serrated on one side with the other side being a straight blade that I ordered online from a US company. I doubt I would have been able to buy the knife and have it shipped to my door if it was a federal offense to have such a knife. As for the legality of the knife in my state, it is legal to own it, but it is unconstitutionally illegal to carry it (it's switchblade). If only we could get our arms laws to actualy match our state constitution which says that the legislature can't prohibit any arms for self defense.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I think carrying a knife concealed is legal with a CCL, as it is a weapon. Weapon as defined would include a knife.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  11. #11
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I think carrying a knife concealed is legal with a CCL, as it is a weapon. Weapon as defined would include a knife.
    Not a switchblade. That is my point.

    When I have a moment then I'll string the citations together and add them here. Or you can do your own research.

    §175.60(1)(j) "Weapon" means a handgun, an electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a), a knife other than a switchblade knife under s. 941.24, or a billy club.

    §941.24 Possession of switchblade knife.
    (1) Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be surrendered to any peace officer.

    My very conventional pocket knife, a Columbia River Knife and Tool M16-01Z opens arguably by pressing a button and unarguably by a movement, making it a legally defined switchblade.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 12-13-2011 at 09:12 AM.

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    Regular Member Vandil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy1 View Post
    I have a dagger that has 1/2 of the top sharpened (purchased that way), its made to fit in a sheath that can fit into a boot or other like footwear. Couldn't tell you why its only sharpened half way though.
    False edge, supposedly allows you to back hand cut in a knife fight but the only thing I've ever seen one used for was as an impromptu gut hook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Not a switchblade. That is my point.

    When I have a moment then I'll string the citations together and add them here. Or you can do your own research.

    §175.60(1)(j) "Weapon" means a handgun, an electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a), a knife other than a switchblade knife under s. 941.24, or a billy club.

    §941.24 Possession of switchblade knife.
    (1) Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be surrendered to any peace officer.

    My very conventional pocket knife, a Columbia River Knife and Tool M16-01Z opens arguably by pressing a button and unarguably by a movement, making it a legally defined switchblade.
    To me that seems excessively broad. After all what type of folding knife doesn't open with movement?

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aknazer View Post
    To me that seems excessively broad. After all what type of folding knife doesn't open with movement?
    Arguably, that is something to which a court will have to decide. Realistically, IMO you have little to worry about with your "whittling knife" Case folder.
    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

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  15. #15
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Arguably, that is something to which a court will have to decide. Realistically, IMO you have little to worry about with your "whittling knife" Case folder.
    Through my career as an electrician, first Navy IC and then journeyman marine electrician, I carried a Camillus TL-29 that I spent many hours sharpening, lapping and polishing into a knife that would open with one hand, conveniently with a flick of the wrist.

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    Super Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Through my career as an electrician, first Navy IC and then journeyman marine electrician, I carried a Camillus TL-29 that I spent many hours sharpening, lapping and polishing into a knife that would open with one hand, conveniently with a flick of the wrist.
    In some states (most?), carrying a tool of your trade/employment is an "excusable" form of defense in court. Beside what you have is a somewhat worn out ol' knife ; )

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time.

    Yata hey

  17. #17
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    LOL very well worn!

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Spring Loaded..????

    QUOTE=Herr Heckler Koch;1666165]Not a switchblade. That is my point.

    When I have a moment then I'll string the citations together and add them here. Or you can do your own research.

    §175.60(1)(j) "Weapon" means a handgun, an electric weapon, as defined in s. 941.295 (1c) (a), a knife other than a switchblade knife under s. 941.24, or a billy club.

    §941.24 Possession of switchblade knife.
    (1) Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
    (2) Within 30 days after April 16, 1959, such knives shall be surrendered to any peace officer.


    One of the knives I carry (Tac-Force – Speedster Model) quickly "flips" open with just slight finger pressure by pulling back on one of the "finger guards" (?) at the base of the blade. It is a lock blade and needs to be "unlocked" before closing. When closing there is some resistance (pressure). Does seem like some sort of “spring” action but the only possible type of “spring would be a very small coil type spring where the blade connects to the handle. Not at all visible when looking closely at the knife. The blade itself has a dagger shape and only sharp on one edge and a small “grove” on both sides with small holes in the grove.

    I know, I know.... A spring is a spring no matter shape or size....

    I am wondering by being (probably) spring activated hence illegal … (?)

    If I carry her inside my pants pocket with the “belt” clip showing on the outside of the pocket then technically not concealed hence legal..???

    Just askin…

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    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 12-13-2011 at 10:59 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Cool The Venerable TL-29!

    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Through my career as an electrician, first Navy IC and then journeyman marine electrician, I carried a Camillus TL-29 that I spent many hours sharpening, lapping and polishing into a knife that would open with one hand, conveniently with a flick of the wrist.
    Ah...the TL-29....I think I still have one somewhere. Were you in Charleston, S.C. in the 70's or 80's?

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    is there honestly a person that doesn't carry some sort of knife on them nowadays??? and aren't most of those knifes closing knifes in some way shape or form, so the knife edge is covered??? i almost wonder if that knife law is along the lines of one of those old but forgotten or not really enforced laws. i mean by that definition, carrying a leatherman or all-in-one tool is illegal, and who doesn't carry one of those nowadays???

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    If one gets caught with a true swicth blade you most likely well get charged.

    The other kinds of knifes well that depends on where, who and ifs.

    One always has the choice of defending with, it is just a tool IE hunting knife ect.

    If Iam out building deer stands ect in the woods a large 12 inch bowie ect is most likely a tool. The same knife under the car seat when you get picked up for drunk driving could very well see you charged with CCW. But then what about the axe, hammer ect in the same car northen Wis tools down town Madison.Milw. who knows.

    If you pull it out and use as it a weapon who knows.

    We need to do away with the what ifs and go to true consitutional carry. IMHO is if you process and are using it for a lawful purpose you can have and process it.

    If you grab it and use it unlawfully you get charged. IE you take it and use it to rob a store ect..

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Lightbulb I Have Never Carried A Knife Except A Hunting Knife Back In The Early Days

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio_vette View Post
    is there honestly a person that doesn't carry some sort of knife on them nowadays??? and aren't most of those knifes closing knifes in some way shape or form, so the knife edge is covered??? i almost wonder if that knife law is along the lines of one of those old but forgotten or not really enforced laws. i mean by that definition, carrying a leatherman or all-in-one tool is illegal, and who doesn't carry one of those nowadays???
    I don't carry one. Even in my military days I never carried the TL-29. I kept it in my toolbox. I have a pocket knife or two but don't carry them. I don't have much need to carry a knife around on me. I have worn a hunting knife back in the day but only for hunting or hiking/camping.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

    —John F. Kennedy

  23. #23
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    If one gets caught with a true swicth blade you most likely well get charged.
    Wisconsin defines a true switchblade in §941.24 above and excepts it from legal concealed carry in §175.60(1)(j) above also. Or do you have some other idea of a true switchblade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Heckler Koch View Post
    Wisconsin defines a true switchblade in §941.24 above and excepts it from legal concealed carry in §175.60(1)(j) above also. Or do you have some other idea of a true switchblade.

    I guess I don't understand your Question.

    You have spring assited openers that some, not me would like to call a switch blade.

    Too me a true switch blade is a knife the meets the defintion in the law.

  25. #25
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    §941.24 Possession of switchblade knife.
    (1) Whoever ... possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a ... device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

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