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Thread: Carrying open or concealed without a permit?

  1. #1
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    Carrying open or concealed without a permit?

    US Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Chapter 13, Subsection 311 defines the militia as "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."

    Florida Chapter 790.25...

    "(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 (Open Carry) and 790.06 (Concealed Carry) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (a) Members of the Militia, National Guard, Florida State Defense Force, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, organized reserves, and other armed forces of the state and of the United States, when on duty, when training or preparing themselves for military duty, or while subject to recall or mobilization;"

    What I'm getting at, is technically, couldn't any able bodied male 17+ years of age American citizen or legal resident with intent to become a citizen, or any female NG member carry concealed or open without any permit?

    Obviously this is dangerous...you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride, but am I missing something?

    I looked under 790's definitions for any definition of militia that differs from the federal definition, and found nothing...
    Last edited by shastadude17; 12-13-2011 at 10:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Schlitz has brought forth another to OCDO..... I do it big...
    Last edited by Schlitz; 12-13-2011 at 10:25 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shastadude17 View Post
    US Code Title 10, Subtitle A, Part 1, Chapter 13, Subsection 311 defines the militia as "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."

    Florida Chapter 790.25...

    "(3) LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053 (Open Carry) and 790.06 (Concealed Carry) do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (a) Members of the Militia, National Guard, Florida State Defense Force, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, organized reserves, and other armed forces of the state and of the United States, when on duty, when training or preparing themselves for military duty, or while subject to recall or mobilization;"

    What I'm getting at, is technically, couldn't any able bodied male 17+ years of age American citizen or legal resident with intent to become a citizen, or any female NG member carry concealed or open without any permit?

    Obviously this is dangerous...you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride, but am I missing something?

    I looked under 790's definitions for any definition of militia that differs from the federal definition, and found nothing...


    That's because it's not (mostly) covered under 790, it comes under :

    Florida Statutes 870.06 - Unauthorized military organizations
    Florida Statutes > Title XLVI > Chapter 870 > § 870.06 - Unauthorized military organizations

    Current as of: 2011
    Check for updates
    2010 version

    No body of persons, other than the regularly organized land and naval militia of this state, the troops of the United States, and the students of regularly chartered educational institutions where military science is a prescribed part of the course of instruction, shall associate themselves together as a military organization for drill or parade in public with firearms, in this state, without special license from the Governor for each occasion, and application for such license must be approved by the mayor and aldermen of the cities and towns where such organizations may propose to parade. Each person unlawfully engaging in the formation of such military organization, or participating in such drill or parade, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    s. 15, ch. 1466, 1866; RS 2411; s. 10, ch. 5202, 1903; G

    http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/f...tatutes_870-06

    But it is covered under 790. 29

    790.29 Paramilitary training; teaching or participation prohibited.

    (1) This act shall be known and may be cited as the "State Antiparamilitary Training Act."

    (2) As used in this section, the term "civil disorder" means a public disturbance involving acts of violence by an assemblage of three or more persons, which disturbance causes an immediate danger of, or results in, damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual within the United States.

    (3)(a) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

    (b) Whoever assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, intending to unlawfully employ the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder within the United States, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

    (4) Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to prohibit any act of a law enforcement officer which is performed in connection with the lawful performance of his or her official duties or to prohibit the training or teaching of the use of weapons to be used for hunting, recreation, competition, self-defense or the protection of one's person or property, or other lawful use.

    History.--s. 1, ch. 82-5; s. 164, ch. 83-216; s. 1220, ch. 97-102.

    Sections: Previous 790.233 790.235 790.24 790.25 790.251 790.256 790.27 790.28 790.29 790.31 790.33 790.331 790.333 790.335 790.336 Next

    Last modified: March 26, 2010

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    Interesting lol...so the state of FL specifically bans the first part of the 2nd amendment? Wow.

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    Yes, and no- the way they "get around that" , so to speak, is that what they are "banning" is the formation of militias other than National Guard/Reserve, etc,unless it's something the Governor calls up and grants license to..
    How "constitutional" any of it is, who knows. Not aware of anyone having tried to challenge it.

  6. #6
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    Now, where it can get interesting is in the Federal, Title 18/ title 10 levels of Statutes.
    Florida just seems to have copied theirs from the federal version, mostly.

    -CITE-
    10 USC CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA 01/07/2011

    -EXPCITE-
    TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
    Subtitle A - General Military Law
    PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
    CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

    -HEAD-
    CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

    -MISC1-
    Sec.
    311. Militia: composition and classes.
    312. Militia duty: exemptions.

    -End-



    -CITE-
    10 USC Sec. 311 01/07/2011

    -EXPCITE-
    TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
    Subtitle A - General Military Law
    PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
    CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

    -HEAD-
    Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes

    -STATUTE-
    (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
    males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
    313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
    declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
    and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
    National Guard.
    (b) The classes of the militia are -
    (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
    and the Naval Militia; and
    (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
    the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
    Naval Militia.

    -SOURCE-
    (Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 14; Pub. L. 85-861, Sec. 1(7),
    Sept. 2, 1958, 72 Stat. 1439; Pub. L. 103-160, div. A, title V,
    Sec. 524(a), Nov. 30, 1993, 107 Stat. 1656.)

    -MISC1-



    HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES
    1956 ACT
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Revised Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at
    section Large)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    311(a) 32:1 (less last 19 words). June 3, 1916, ch. 134,
    Sec. 57, 39 Stat. 197;
    June 28, 1947, ch. 162,
    Sec. 7 (as applicable to
    Sec. 57 of the Act of
    June 3, 1916, ch. 134),
    61 Stat. 192.
    311(b)
    32:1 (last 19 words).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    In subsection (a), the words "who have made a declaration of
    intention" are substituted for the words "who have or shall have
    declared their intention". The words "at least 17 years of age and
    * * * under 45 years of age" are substituted for the words "who
    shall be more than seventeen years of age and * * * not more than
    forty-five years of age". The words "except as provided in section
    313 of title 32" are substituted for the words "except as
    hereinafter provided", to make explicit the exception as to maximum
    age.
    In subsection (b), the words "The organized militia, which
    consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia" are
    substituted for the words "the National Guard, the Naval Militia",
    since the National Guard and the Naval Militia constitute the
    organized militia.



    1958 ACT
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Revised Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at
    section Large)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    311(a) 32 App.:1. July 30, 1956, ch. 789,
    Sec. 1, 70 Stat. 729.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    The words "appointed as . . . under section 4 of this title" are
    omitted as surplusage.

    AMENDMENTS
    1993 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 103-160 substituted "members" for
    "commissioned officers".
    1958 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 85-861 included female citizens of
    the United States who are commissioned officers of the National
    Guard.

    -End-



    -CITE-
    10 USC Sec. 312 01/07/2011

    -EXPCITE-
    TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
    Subtitle A - General Military Law
    PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
    CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

    -HEAD-
    Sec. 312. Militia duty: exemptions

    -STATUTE-
    (a) The following persons are exempt from militia duty:
    (1) The Vice President.
    (2) The judicial and executive officers of the United States,
    the several States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and
    the Virgin Islands.
    (3) Members of the armed forces, except members who are not on
    active duty.
    (4) Customhouse clerks.
    (5) Persons employed by the United States in the transmission
    of mail.
    (6) Workmen employed in armories, arsenals, and naval shipyards
    of the United States.
    (7) Pilots on navigable waters.
    (8) Mariners in the sea service of a citizen of, or a merchant
    in, the United States.

    (b) A person who claims exemption because of religious belief is
    exempt from militia duty in a combatant capacity, if the
    conscientious holding of that belief is established under such
    regulations as the President may prescribe. However, such a person
    is not exempt from militia duty that the President determines to be
    noncombatant.

    -SOURCE-
    (Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 15; Pub. L. 100-456, div. A,
    title XII, Sec. 1234(a)(3), Sept. 29, 1988, 102 Stat. 2059; Pub. L.
    109-163, div. A, title X, Sec. 1057(a)(7), Jan. 6, 2006, 119 Stat.
    3441.)

    -MISC1-



    HISTORICAL AND REVISION NOTES
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Revised Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at
    section Large)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    312(a) 32:3 (less last 67 words). June 3, 1916, ch. 134,
    Sec. 59, 39 Stat. 197.
    312(b)
    32:3 (last 67 words).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    In subsection (a), the words "Members of the armed forces" are
    substituted for the words "persons in the military or naval
    service". The words "except members who are not on active duty" are
    inserted to reflect an opinion of the Judge Advocate General of the
    Army (JAGA 1952/4374, 9 July 1952). The word "artificers" is
    omitted as covered by the word "workmen". The words "naval
    shipyards" are substituted for the words "navy yards" to reflect
    modern terminology. The words "on navigable waters" are inserted to
    preserve the original coverage of the word "pilots". The words
    "actually" and "without regard to age" are omitted as surplusage.

    AMENDMENTS
    2006 - Subsec. (a)(2). Pub. L. 109-163 substituted "States, the
    Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands" for
    "States and Territories, and Puerto Rico".
    1988 - Subsec. (a)(2). Pub. L. 100-456 substituted "and Puerto
    Rico" for "Puerto Rico, and the Canal Zone".

    -End-

  7. #7
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    Here is a listing of the statutory sources for each state law.

    States with Both Anti-Militia and Anti-Paramilitary Training Laws (7)

    -Florida. FLA. STAT. ANN. ch. 870.06, 790.29.
    -Georgia. GA. CODE ANN. ss 38-2-277, 16-11-150 to -152.
    -Idaho. IDAHO CODE ss 46-802, 18-8101 to -8105.
    -Illinois. ILL. REV. STAT. ch. 1805, para. 94-95.
    -New York. N.Y. MIL. LAW s 240.
    -North Carolina. N.C. GEN. STAT. ss 127A-151, 14-288.20.
    -Rhode Island. R.I. GEN. LAWS ss 30-12-7, 11-55-1 to -3.


    States with Anti-Militia Laws Only (17)

    -Alabama. ALA. CODE s 31-2-125.
    -Arizona. ARIZ. REV. STAT. ANN. s 26-123.
    -Iowa. IOWA CODE s 29A.31.
    -Kansas. KAN. STAT. ANN. s 48-203.
    -Kentucky. KY. REV. STAT. ANN. s 38.440.
    -Maine. ME. REV. STAT. ANN. tit. 37-B, s 342.2.
    -Maryland. MD. CODE ANN. art. 65, s 35.
    -Massachusetts. MASS. GEN. L. ch. 33, s 129-132.
    -Minnesota. MINN. STAT. s 624.61.
    -Mississippi. MISS. CODE ANN. $ 33-1-31.
    -Nevada. NEV. REV. STAT. s 203-080.
    -New Hampshire. N.H. REV. STAT. ANN. s 111:15.
    -North Dakota. N.D. CENT. CODE s 37-01-21.
    -Texas. TEX. GOV'T CODE ANN. s 431.010.
    -Washington. WASH. REV. CODE s 38.40.120.
    -West Virginia. W. VA. CODE s 15-1F-7.
    -Wyoming. WYO. STAT. s 19-1-106.


    States with Anti-Paramilitary Training Laws Only (17)

    -Arkansas. ARK. CODE s 5-71-301 to -303.
    -California. CAL. PENAL CODE s 11460.
    -Colorado. COLO. REV. STAT. s 18-9-120.
    -Connecticut. CONN. GEN. STAT. s 53-206b.
    -Louisiana. LA. REV. STAT. ANN. s 117.1.
    -Michigan. MICH. COMP. LAWS s 750.528a.
    -Missouri. MO. REV. STAT. s 574.070.
    -Montana. MONT. CODE ANN. s 45-8-109.
    -Nebraska. NEB. REV. STAT. s 28-1480 to -1482.
    -New Jersey. N.J. REV. STAT. s 2C:39-14.
    -New Mexico. N.M. STAT. ANN. s 30-20A-1 to -4.
    -Oklahoma. OKLA. STAT. ANN. tit. 21, s 1321.10.
    -Oregon. OR. REV. STAT. s 166.660.
    -Pennsylvania. 18 PA. CONS. STAT. s 5515.
    -South Carolina. S.C. CODE ANN. s 16-8-10 to -30.
    -Tennessee. TENN. CODE ANN. s 39-17-314.
    -Virginia. VA. CODE ANN. s 18.2-433.1 to -433.3.

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