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Thread: Bloomberg up to old tricks again. Buying from private sellers off internet sites.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Bloomberg up to old tricks again. Buying from private sellers off internet sites.

    http://www.fixgunchecks.org/deleteonlineoutlaws http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PerBK...layer_embedded Duct tape warning. New York is sending in agents to buy from and video private sellers. If it hasn't happened in Virginia, it will.
    Last edited by T Dubya; 12-14-2011 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Add another link.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T Dubya View Post
    http://www.fixgunchecks.org/deleteonlineoutlaws

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PerBK...layer_embedded


    Duct tape warning. New York is sending in agents to buy from and video private sellers. If it hasn't happened in Virginia, it will.
    So, they have progressed from "gun show loophole" to "Gun SALE loophole" -- some progress.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    A city investigation caught online gun sellers around the country illegally handing over assault weapons to people who said they couldn't pass a background check, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Wednesday, just days after a police officer was shot to death with an illegal gun.
    Last I checked, if your online sale was to someone in a different state, then you were required to ship the firearm to an FFL, who then performs the background check.

    Personally, I wouldn't care if someone in another state buys a gun from me and then can't pass the check. I'll ship it to their chosen FFL and from there it's their problem.

    If someone isn't shipping the gun to an FFL in another state, then that is already a violation of the law and no further laws are needed.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    62% of sellers on classified ad websites were willing to sell to individuals who admitted they couldn’t pass a criminal background check.
    http://www.fixgunchecks.org/deleteonlineoutlaws

    Really? Would like to see the documentation on that - see this as just so much BS. I have never met anyone, much less a large enough number to have any significant meaning, that would sell to someone that admitted that they could not pass a background check.

    So Mr. Bloomberg and friends how many did you actually check to see if they had really made such a claim? How many have you confirmed? Because you say it is so, does not make it so. Show us documented, verifiable facts, not empty claims - you are famous infamous for those!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    62% of sellers on classified ad websites were willing to sell to individuals who admitted they couldn’t pass a criminal background check.
    http://www.fixgunchecks.org/deleteonlineoutlaws

    Really? Would like to see the documentation on that - see this as just so much BS. I have never met anyone, much less a large enough number to have any significant meaning, that would sell to someone that admitted that they could not pass a background check.

    So Mr. Bloomberg and friends how many did you actually check to see if they had really made such a claim? How many have you confirmed? Because you say it is so, does not make it so. Show us documented, verifiable facts, not empty claims - you are famous infamous for those!
    Silly bear, empty emotional claims don't need backed up because an authority figure issued them. Same claim when I hear about what the law says all the time...
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuc65 View Post
    Silly bear, empty emotional claims don't need backed up because an authority figure issued them. Same claim when I hear about what the law says all the time...
    It is much the old adage of a lie repeated often enough...........

    Can't let such claims go unchallenged whether they originate from NYC or the White House. Obviously there are those that have gotten elected on the basis of such false claims and/or promises.

    If I let such as that go unrefuted, then I am part of the problem.

    If Bloomie would keep his illegal buyers in NY and out of other states, we would all be better off. I submit that the policemen attempting to purchase such as they are claimed to be doing are in fact "straw purchasers" and should be prosecuted as such.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I didn't listen to all the recordings. They made me sick for the most part. My first question was, is it legal in that state to record the conversation.

    In most of the calls the seller was just a normal fellow who thought the idiot was making a joke. But...as soon as the guy said I probably couldn't pass one (I think the key is the word probably)....the seller should have lost his sense of humor and killed the sale.

    I don't know ANYONE who wouldn't have refused to sell it.

    I listened to two sellers that flat knew better and one said so. That's not good and I'd probably turn him myself.

    I wonder how many calls it took to get those few that were questionable sellers.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    The more I think of this, the more I wonder how they pulled that off.

    To start with, Craigslist doesn't allow gun sales. You see one once in a while, but they get pulled pretty quickly.

    Were these callers in NY. If so, what phone number were they using?

    In a way, we're our worst enemy in countering this. I'd be more than willing to try the same thing just to show that most tell me to go pound sand....but if I did, I'd be banned from the web site or run out of the show, before I had enough conversions to mean anything.

    These things always remind me of the ATF trying to convince Randy Weaver to saw a shotgun off shy of 18".

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Remember: Ruby Ridge.

    God rest his family.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    62% of sellers on classified ad websites were willing to sell to individuals who admitted they couldn’t pass a criminal background check.
    http://www.fixgunchecks.org/deleteonlineoutlaws

    Really? Would like to see the documentation on that - see this as just so much BS. I have never met anyone, much less a large enough number to have any significant meaning, that would sell to someone that admitted that they could not pass a background check.

    So Mr. Bloomberg and friends how many did you actually check to see if they had really made such a claim? How many have you confirmed? Because you say it is so, does not make it so. Show us documented, verifiable facts, not empty claims - you are famous infamous for those!


    The only person and his underlings that are documented to sell to people that either can't pass a background check or they know they are selling to somoneon that is straw-buying the weapons as far as I know is Eric Holder and the DOJ.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Found this:

    "Bloomberg said the private investigators recorded telephone calls with sellers during the investigation and used concealed cameras when meeting with them in person.

    The sellers called were in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, New Mexico, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BE01Z20111215

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    In the interest of fair reporting, here is the TOS from armslist.com, one of the sites mentioned in this incident. This is a pop-up on first use, you must agree to continue to the site. It is obvious that Bloomberg's goons were in clear violation of these rules themselves. Once again, apparently the rules apply to "other folks", not the government. I would love to see the owners of this website sue them for violation of the TOS:

    ARMSLIST - TERMS OF USE

    1. I am 18 years of age or older.

    2. I understand that ARMSLIST DOES NOT become involved in transactions between parties and does not certify, investigate, or in any way guarantee the legal capacity of any party to transact.

    3. I am responsible for obeying all applicable enforcement mechanisms, including, but not limited to federal, state, municipal, and tribal statutes, rules, regulations, ordinances, and judicial decisions, including compliance with all applicable licensing requirements.

    4. I will not use Armslist.com for any illegal purpose.

    5. If I am at all unsure about firearm sales or transfers, I will contact the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosive at 1-800-ATF-GUNS and visit the ATF website at http://www.atf.gov.

    6. I will help to ensure the overall openness and accessibility of the site to all users through a peer-review process, including but not limited to the ARMSLIST Flagging Policy. I understand that failure to adhere to proper internet protocol and etiquette may result in removal of my posts or more severe corrective action.

    7. ARMSLIST may edit or remove information, including my posts, from the site without notice.

    8. If I violate these terms, ARMSLIST may permanently remove me from the site or, depending on the nature and severity of the violation, avail itself of such remedies as are prescribed by law. Whilst ARMSLIST ABSOLUTELY BELIEVES AND CHAMPIONS “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,” ARMSLIST will comply with federal, state, municipal, and tribal law enforcement entities pursuant to the Constitution of the United States and Due Process of Law.

    9. I take responsibility for my actions whilst using Armslist.com. I also take responsibility for any and all of my actions related to, or resulting from, my use of Armslist.com. Further, I am solely responsible for any and all consequences of such my actions.

    10. I indemnify and hold harmless ARMSLIST and all of its owners, directors, officers, employees, and agents for any and all loss, harm, damage, costs, liability, and expense caused to them, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by my use of Armslist.com, including but not limited to direct or indirect results of violations of any and all applicable laws.

    11. ARMSLIST may make changes to these terms at any time without notifying me. As a user, I am solely responsible for reading the most current version of the terms and conditions.

    12. By clicking “I agree,” I electronically represent (“sign”) that I agree to the above terms and further certify that I have read, and completely agree, to be legally bound by the ARMSLIST Terms of Use
    I think it is clear that the best response to this whole story is "yes, we already knew that criminals break laws..."

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=peter nap;1667172]I didn't listen to all the recordings. They made me sick for the most part. My first question was, is it legal in that state to record the conversation.
    ...snip..
    /QUOTE]

    All of the states listed in the later articles (see below) are 1 party consent states.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The more I think of this, the more I wonder how they pulled that off.

    To start with, Craigslist doesn't allow gun sales. You see one once in a while, but they get pulled pretty quickly.
    ...snip...

    True - That may be the biggest, most obvious error in Bloomy's claim.


    Quote Originally Posted by T Dubya View Post
    Found this:

    "Bloomberg said the private investigators recorded telephone calls with sellers during the investigation and used concealed cameras when meeting with them in person.

    The sellers called were in Arizona, Colorado, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, New Mexico, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wisconsin."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BE01Z20111215
    See comments above in blue.

    How do we know this entire thing wasn't staged - actors on both ends of the phone and at the so called exchanges? There are no facts to check - all verbal claims - that's called hearsay
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    I agree it is all hear say but their MO is to tell a lie enough and people will think it is true. Then they will find away to use these calls in some statistics in their favor about gun control.

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    How do we know this entire thing wasn't staged - actors on both ends of the phone and at the so called exchanges?
    My thoughts exactly, unless I see a formal investigation that actually names the sellers I'm not buying it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    David Codrea chimes in with his 3 cents:

    Bloomberg online gun sting creates more questions than answers

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...alerts_article
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Bloomers is at it again?

    Quote Originally Posted by T Dubya View Post
    http://www.fixgunchecks.org/deleteonlineoutlaws http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PerBK...layer_embedded Duct tape warning. New York is sending in agents to buy from and video private sellers. If it hasn't happened in Virginia, it will.
    Notice that once again, the coward of NYC has "agents" doing what he is afraid to do.

    I love his deranged rant about private sales.

    I wonder if he is doing the same to people who sell private autos, especially since more people are killed by cars than guns in this country every year.

    Why do "we" as Americans elect idiots like this to public office?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    ...snip....

    Why do "we" as Americans elect idiots like this to public office?
    We don't - the idiots do.

    Whoops sorry 'bout that!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Notice that once again, the coward of NYC has "agents" doing what he is afraid to do.

    I love his deranged rant about private sales.

    I wonder if he is doing the same to people who sell private autos, especially since more people are killed by cars than guns in this country every year.

    Why do "we" as Americans elect idiots like this to public office?
    Those aren't Americans, they're New Yorkers.

  21. #21
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Now Dave Workman lends his voice to challenging Bloomie.

    Bloomberg’s new ‘sting’ = same old agenda
    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/bloomberg-s-new-sting-same-old-agenda?CID=examiner_alerts_article
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The story is changing as it "ferments"

    Again we hear of "unlicensed gun dealers" - there is no such thing.

    Previous Bloomie reports said that the sellers were willing to sell even when the purchaser said he wouldn't qualify.

    Now the wording is "willing to sell to people who likely couldn't pass a background check."
    http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-coal...tory?track=rss

    Nothing has changed with Bloomie's tactics. He is vague, unsubstantiated, accusatory, scare monger who spins everything to suit his on agenda.

    If sellers break the law - report them.

    If (straw?) purchasers break the law - report them

    BTW - Urhonor Bloomberg - how about you ID the Virginia investigators so that we may properly reward them in accordance with Virginia law
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    First things first.

    First, Bloomers is a politician and therefore a known and proven liar.

    Second, Bloomers is a criminal for authorizing these straw purchases.

    Third, Bloomers should be prosecuted under the federal Organized Crime statutes for being the head of this crime organization.

    Fourth, Bloomers will NOT be prosecuted because he will claim in court that he was only doing his “AG Holder” impersonation.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Why is nobody mentioning the Virginia law that makes doing this stuff a crime?

    No, not the law about selling guns to criminals - the law about coming to Virginia to pull this, or sending folks to Virginia to do this. IIRC even moving electrons to Virginia to do this was included as a crime.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Why is nobody mentioning the Virginia law that makes doing this stuff a crime?

    No, not the law about selling guns to criminals - the law about coming to Virginia to pull this, or sending folks to Virginia to do this. IIRC even moving electrons to Virginia to do this was included as a crime.

    stay safe.
    Probably because Virginia is the closest FREE state that still believes in the Bill of Rights.

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