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Thread: How safe are your gun safes from lock pickers?

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Verd's Avatar
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    How safe are your gun safes from lock pickers?

    http://vimeo.com/31177302

    They delve into biometrics, basic gun locks that ship with your guns, trigger locks, and pretty much stick with low to mid-range cost on gun safes.

    Information that you should really know about if you are using a gun lock/safe for more than just child protection.
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    Some time back there was a posting (not here) about how easy it was to break into a gun safe... two guys with big bars, and 5 minutes tops, I believe they were You Tube videos... So short version locks and low end gun safes are only to keep honest people honest.....

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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Some time back there was a posting (not here) about how easy it was to break into a gun safe... two guys with big bars, and 5 minutes tops, I believe they were You Tube videos... So short version locks and low end gun safes are only to keep honest people honest.....
    Like the guy in the video says, most off the shelf single gun safes are to keep children out, theives can get into them eventually. Even the one the guy said he gave up on cause it took too long, someone else from the show got it 10 minutes later near the end.

    It is a good eye opener, and I shall have to look into Abloy locks (i think that's how it's spelled) and play around with mine, see how easy it is to pick mine through the cable lock holes....

    I did like the Gun Vault from Lock Saf (not misspelled, that's how it's written on the box). He spent a long time tryong to replicate a fingerprint to fool it, but how likely will a theif have access to our finger to make a mold? I'd like to see him try that by lifting a print rather than direct molding.

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    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Certain biometric devices are easily defeated. I would not rely on one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHER1 View Post
    It is very useful information for us.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Is it just me or it's there suddenly an over abundance of people making posts like these?


    Posted using my HTC Evo

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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    I've seen his talks and met him at Defcon and other Cons. He's very skilled. I actually learned how to pick locks at one of his sessions at a Con. I missed Defcon 19 so I'm glad you found this 'cause now I get to watch him.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsontech View Post
    Bio Box RULES! LOL.
    My six-digit electronic safe would take you, on average, 138 hours to crack by brute force attack, whereas it takes about 5 seconds to liberate my firearm in self defence, and that's if I have it stored in there in the first place. Normally I keep it on my person or within arm's reach if I'm home alone. If my son is visiting, I keep it on my person, under my pillow with my head on top of the pillow, or in the safe.

    My safe requires two keys, one normal and one circular as a backup means of entry should the battery die. A locksmith friend claims he could pick either lock in less than five minutes, but picking two at once, with just two hands, might prove beyond his abilities.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    My six-digit electronic safe would take you, on average, 138 hours to crack by brute force attack, whereas it takes about 5 seconds to liberate my firearm in self defence, and that's if I have it stored in there in the first place. Normally I keep it on my person or within arm's reach if I'm home alone. If my son is visiting, I keep it on my person, under my pillow with my head on top of the pillow, or in the safe.

    My safe requires two keys, one normal and one circular as a backup means of entry should the battery die. A locksmith friend claims he could pick either lock in less than five minutes, but picking two at once, with just two hands, might prove beyond his abilities.
    Glad to see that you understand that 5 seconds is 4.9 seconds too slow.

    Residential Security Cabinets (as opposed to true safes) are for keeping some theives honest and preventing jelly from getting on the grips. Safes do the same thing but cost more.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    He spent a long time tryong to replicate a fingerprint to fool it, but how likely will a theif have access to our finger to make a mold? I'd like to see him try that by lifting a print rather than direct molding.
    Most of the hackers that do these talks do things like that just to see if they can push the envelope and fool the equipment. Being a hacker he just had to see if it "could" be done. I don't think he meant that he could get anyone's fingerprint on site and create a duplicate to break into a biometric safe.

  11. #11
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baked on Grease View Post
    Like the guy in the video says, most off the shelf single gun safes are to keep children out, theives can get into them eventually. Even the one the guy said he gave up on cause it took too long, someone else from the show got it 10 minutes later near the end.

    It is a good eye opener, and I shall have to look into Abloy locks (i think that's how it's spelled) and play around with mine, see how easy it is to pick mine through the cable lock holes....

    I did like the Gun Vault from Lock Saf (not misspelled, that's how it's written on the box). He spent a long time tryong to replicate a fingerprint to fool it, but how likely will a theif have access to our finger to make a mold? I'd like to see him try that by lifting a print rather than direct molding.

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    How about using your cold dead finger? Like in the movies.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    How about using your cold dead finger? Like in the movies.
    Then he isn't the average thief, and that's assuming I use my finger for the sensor

    If I am already dead then he was there for more than a gun, and I failed.

    Part of what the speaker was getting at is keeping the gun out of the hands of cops and dedicated hackers. What I was wondering is that if you had that one bolted to your car, could a cop make a copy of your prints to get into it without leaving evidence?

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    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    ETA: oh, yeah... I can't watch the video right now (saved the link for later), but did they mention First Alert? I have one of their safes in the trunk of my car, & somehow the police got into it. Didn't take them long, doesn't show any damage, and no, I did not give them the key or code. When I got the car back from the impound lot, both the key lock & knob were in the locked positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHER1
    It is very useful information for us.
    Thanks for sharing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House
    Is it just me or it's there suddenly an overabundance of people making posts like these?
    I haven't seen many others, but all of his posts are like that.
    And even though he claims to be in Britain, he says in one post:
    "I also had my first open carry experience this last weekend."
    And his profile links to an attorney in Oregon.
    Good use for the ignore feature.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 12-16-2011 at 02:25 PM.
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    Regular Member Baked on Grease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    ETA: oh, yeah... I can't watch the video right now (saved the link for later), but did they mention First Alert? I have one of their safes in the trunk of my car, & somehow the police got into it. Didn't take them long, doesn't show any damage, and no, I did not give them the key or code. When I got the car back from the impound lot, both the key lock & knob were in the locked positions.



    I haven't seen many others, but all of his posts are like that.
    And even though he claims to be in Britain, he says in one post:
    "I also had my first open carry experience this last weekend."
    And his profile links to an attorney in Oregon.
    Good use for the ignore feature.
    I don't recall any First Alert boxes in the vid, but he mostly talks about the types of locks used. What kind of lock does yours use? Most of the off the shelf "car safes" use locks that can be picked in seconds, literally. Even those cylinder locks people seem to like for some reason. I would not put it past any LEA to have picks handy. Maybe have a sticker that says you don't consent to search and seizure on the lock box? Lol

    I am looking into getting some Abloy cam locks to replace the dinky locks that come with my lock boxes. They would have to destroy it to open them up.

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    "A Right Un-exercised is a Right Lost"

    "According to the law, [openly carrying] in a vehicle is against the law if the weapon is concealed" -Flamethrower (think about it....)

    Carrying an XDm 9mm with Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint. Soon to be carrying a Ruger along with it....

  15. #15
    Regular Member Large Caliber Kick's Avatar
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    In my few years that I was a reposessor, the only lock I wasn't able to pick was a war-lok. http://war-lok.com/

    With any decent level of precision dexterity, picking almost any other lock can be learned in a matter of hours and mastered in a week. Yes it's true that you only need a paperclip and the clip off an old pen cap. In fact, that's what I trained with.

    A safe with a ten number padlock (1-0) while nice in concept can present problems. On some models when you punch in the wrong number three times it will lock you out for 24 hours giving the thieves no choice but to start prying and cutting. However, if this happens to you the morning that you are catching a flight for a hunting trip in Alaska.....you get the point.

    With a fingerprint biometric safe the keys are all over the house. Anyone with some makeshift fingerprinting powder and some plastic wrap or non-powdered glove can lift a print from anywhere in your house and access your firearm quickly.

    Cracking a safe with a dial combination lock is a much more difficult task and can, no, will take hours for anyone exept the most highly trained and practiced individuals. A dial lock safe is rarely accessed quickly by thieves, is not effected by power failures, won't lock you out for 24 hours, and doesn't require you to wear gloves in your home 24/7 to keep your prints off your countertops.

    Just my $.02, but I'll give it for free today. Merry Christmas.

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    There is a difference between picking a lock and defeating a lock. Picking a lock can take seconds to hours depending on the lock and the skill of the person trying to do it. Defeating most (not talking bank vaults here) locks and safes can usually be accomplished in less than 10 minutes if you don't care about damaging the container and given the proper tools.
    Last edited by throck; 12-17-2011 at 11:54 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Had a friend of mine years ago who was a welder. He'd made a homemade gun safe from 3/4" hardened steel plating. Very simple design using a dual-padlocked key-holed retaining bar across the front plate.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Golly I am trying to remember where I saw the gag video on the California Biometric gun vault. If anyone can find it please post, but short version... BG breaks in, call given to police, BG has gun, owner tries to get into his gun safe.... You can guess the rest...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Golly I am trying to remember where I saw the gag video on the California Biometric gun vault. If anyone can find it please post, but short version... BG breaks in, call given to police, BG has gun, owner tries to get into his gun safe.... You can guess the rest...
    This reminds me of those wooden toy puzzle boxes. If a metal one were similarly constructed, it wouldn't be to keep determined criminals out. Rather, it would be to keep them from gaining rapid access, while affording the owner near-immediate access (a second or two).

    Biometrics Please don't get me started.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Is it just me or it's there suddenly an over abundance of people making posts like these?


    Posted using my HTC Evo
    The new rules I have in place to block posting of links from spammers lead to their bots making these kind of posts without links sometimes.

    Then I ip ban their country and they use proxies in the US.

    The dance continues.


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    Just to throw my 2 cents in. I'm a former locksmith, and have had the good fortune of breaking into many types of safes during my years employed in that field. The best advice I can give is to get a heady duty dial safe, and spend the money/time to have it bolted down correctly, preferably into a corner against two walls. (Removes access to back, and one side of safe) Secondly, understand that every lock can be defeated, its only a matter of time to accomplish it. If the would be thief is planning a quick smash and grab, he will not be able to defeat a dial safe in the time he/she plans. Also, there is a method I used to use when bolting the safes down. They should be bolted from inside down into the floor. But they should also have solid steel angle brackets bolted on the outside around the lower edge of the safe. Then those angle brackets should also be bolted down to the floor. What this does is it prevents a would be thief from using a tool to pry the safe up from the ground, where he could potentialy steal the entire safe, contents and all. When done properly, the safe will be next to impossible to be forced away from the ground, forcing the thief to attempt entry on the spot. Most will not take the time or effort to do this. Problem solved

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    Oh yeah, one more thing. All external bolts should be break away types, or one way bolts. Good luck

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  23. #23
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    When my home was invaded, the thieves tried to bash in my gun safe. They used so much force that it pretty much locked the locking mechanism in place for good. None of the firearms were stolen, but I had to have it heavily repaired. I guess it did its job?

  24. #24
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    My theory is that safes function like this:

    1. Keeps out relatives, kids, friends;
    2. Is a layer of the whole security package;
    3. Delays any determined thief, only;
    4. Weight is a key - fill bottom of cheap safe with sandbags, assure there is no easy entry flaw (like ability to peel back the top or bottom);
    5. Use two safes, one with sandbags and try things like housing half of your gun/ammo in one, the other with the rest. Thief can't easily steal both, gets one and only has parts;
    6. Hide the safe. It's simply a good delay addition;
    7. Check plan for obvious flaws (i.e. have a 5 yo and a 10 year old try to find and defeat it, hehe).
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    I have an amsec gunsafe with an electronic lock and am wondering how hard it is to break into, but I can't watch the video atm. Can anyone tell me what makes it so easy to break into an electronic safe or how easy it is to force a 500lb safe open.

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