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How safe are your gun safes from lock pickers?

Verd

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
381
Location
Lampe, Missouri, United States
http://vimeo.com/31177302

They delve into biometrics, basic gun locks that ship with your guns, trigger locks, and pretty much stick with low to mid-range cost on gun safes.

Information that you should really know about if you are using a gun lock/safe for more than just child protection.
 

Sheldon

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
556
Location
Battle Creek, ,
Some time back there was a posting (not here) about how easy it was to break into a gun safe... two guys with big bars, and 5 minutes tops, I believe they were You Tube videos... So short version locks and low end gun safes are only to keep honest people honest.....
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
Some time back there was a posting (not here) about how easy it was to break into a gun safe... two guys with big bars, and 5 minutes tops, I believe they were You Tube videos... So short version locks and low end gun safes are only to keep honest people honest.....

Like the guy in the video says, most off the shelf single gun safes are to keep children out, theives can get into them eventually. Even the one the guy said he gave up on cause it took too long, someone else from the show got it 10 minutes later near the end.

It is a good eye opener, and I shall have to look into Abloy locks (i think that's how it's spelled) and play around with mine, see how easy it is to pick mine through the cable lock holes....

I did like the Gun Vault from Lock Saf (not misspelled, that's how it's written on the box). He spent a long time tryong to replicate a fingerprint to fool it, but how likely will a theif have access to our finger to make a mold? I'd like to see him try that by lifting a print rather than direct molding.

Sent using tapatalk
 

Steeler-gal

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
560
Location
Fairfax County, VA
I've seen his talks and met him at Defcon and other Cons. He's very skilled. I actually learned how to pick locks at one of his sessions at a Con. :D I missed Defcon 19 so I'm glad you found this 'cause now I get to watch him. :)
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Bio Box RULES! LOL.

My six-digit electronic safe would take you, on average, 138 hours to crack by brute force attack, whereas it takes about 5 seconds to liberate my firearm in self defence, and that's if I have it stored in there in the first place. Normally I keep it on my person or within arm's reach if I'm home alone. If my son is visiting, I keep it on my person, under my pillow with my head on top of the pillow, or in the safe.

My safe requires two keys, one normal and one circular as a backup means of entry should the battery die. A locksmith friend claims he could pick either lock in less than five minutes, but picking two at once, with just two hands, might prove beyond his abilities.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
My six-digit electronic safe would take you, on average, 138 hours to crack by brute force attack, whereas it takes about 5 seconds to liberate my firearm in self defence, and that's if I have it stored in there in the first place. Normally I keep it on my person or within arm's reach if I'm home alone. If my son is visiting, I keep it on my person, under my pillow with my head on top of the pillow, or in the safe.

My safe requires two keys, one normal and one circular as a backup means of entry should the battery die. A locksmith friend claims he could pick either lock in less than five minutes, but picking two at once, with just two hands, might prove beyond his abilities.

Glad to see that you understand that 5 seconds is 4.9 seconds too slow.

Residential Security Cabinets (as opposed to true safes) are for keeping some theives honest and preventing jelly from getting on the grips. Safes do the same thing but cost more.

stay safe.
 

Steeler-gal

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
560
Location
Fairfax County, VA
He spent a long time tryong to replicate a fingerprint to fool it, but how likely will a theif have access to our finger to make a mold? I'd like to see him try that by lifting a print rather than direct molding.

Most of the hackers that do these talks do things like that just to see if they can push the envelope and fool the equipment. Being a hacker he just had to see if it "could" be done. I don't think he meant that he could get anyone's fingerprint on site and create a duplicate to break into a biometric safe.
 

lockman

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,193
Location
Elgin, Illinois, USA
Like the guy in the video says, most off the shelf single gun safes are to keep children out, theives can get into them eventually. Even the one the guy said he gave up on cause it took too long, someone else from the show got it 10 minutes later near the end.

It is a good eye opener, and I shall have to look into Abloy locks (i think that's how it's spelled) and play around with mine, see how easy it is to pick mine through the cable lock holes....

I did like the Gun Vault from Lock Saf (not misspelled, that's how it's written on the box). He spent a long time tryong to replicate a fingerprint to fool it, but how likely will a theif have access to our finger to make a mold? I'd like to see him try that by lifting a print rather than direct molding.

Sent using tapatalk

How about using your cold dead finger? Like in the movies.
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
How about using your cold dead finger? Like in the movies.

Then he isn't the average thief, and that's assuming I use my finger for the sensor :eek:

If I am already dead then he was there for more than a gun, and I failed.

Part of what the speaker was getting at is keeping the gun out of the hands of cops and dedicated hackers. What I was wondering is that if you had that one bolted to your car, could a cop make a copy of your prints to get into it without leaving evidence?

Sent using tapatalk
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
ETA: oh, yeah... I can't watch the video right now (saved the link for later), but did they mention First Alert? I have one of their safes in the trunk of my car, & somehow the police got into it. Didn't take them long, doesn't show any damage, and no, I did not give them the key or code. When I got the car back from the impound lot, both the key lock & knob were in the locked positions.

CHRISTOPHER1 said:
It is very useful information for us.
Thanks for sharing.
Jack House said:
Is it just me or it's there suddenly an overabundance of people making posts like these?
I haven't seen many others, but all of his posts are like that.
And even though he claims to be in Britain, he says in one post:
"I also had my first open carry experience this last weekend."
And his profile links to an attorney in Oregon.
Good use for the ignore feature.
 
Last edited:

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
ETA: oh, yeah... I can't watch the video right now (saved the link for later), but did they mention First Alert? I have one of their safes in the trunk of my car, & somehow the police got into it. Didn't take them long, doesn't show any damage, and no, I did not give them the key or code. When I got the car back from the impound lot, both the key lock & knob were in the locked positions.



I haven't seen many others, but all of his posts are like that.
And even though he claims to be in Britain, he says in one post:
"I also had my first open carry experience this last weekend."
And his profile links to an attorney in Oregon.
Good use for the ignore feature.

I don't recall any First Alert boxes in the vid, but he mostly talks about the types of locks used. What kind of lock does yours use? Most of the off the shelf "car safes" use locks that can be picked in seconds, literally. Even those cylinder locks people seem to like for some reason. I would not put it past any LEA to have picks handy. Maybe have a sticker that says you don't consent to search and seizure on the lock box? Lol

I am looking into getting some Abloy cam locks to replace the dinky locks that come with my lock boxes. They would have to destroy it to open them up.

Sent using tapatalk
 

Large Caliber Kick

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
224
Location
Mooresville, North Carolina, United States
In my few years that I was a reposessor, the only lock I wasn't able to pick was a war-lok. http://war-lok.com/

With any decent level of precision dexterity, picking almost any other lock can be learned in a matter of hours and mastered in a week. Yes it's true that you only need a paperclip and the clip off an old pen cap. In fact, that's what I trained with.

A safe with a ten number padlock (1-0) while nice in concept can present problems. On some models when you punch in the wrong number three times it will lock you out for 24 hours giving the thieves no choice but to start prying and cutting. However, if this happens to you the morning that you are catching a flight for a hunting trip in Alaska.....you get the point.

With a fingerprint biometric safe the keys are all over the house. Anyone with some makeshift fingerprinting powder and some plastic wrap or non-powdered glove can lift a print from anywhere in your house and access your firearm quickly.

Cracking a safe with a dial combination lock is a much more difficult task and can, no, will take hours for anyone exept the most highly trained and practiced individuals. A dial lock safe is rarely accessed quickly by thieves, is not effected by power failures, won't lock you out for 24 hours, and doesn't require you to wear gloves in your home 24/7 to keep your prints off your countertops.

Just my $.02, but I'll give it for free today. Merry Christmas.
 

TheRock

New member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
28
Location
, ,
There is a difference between picking a lock and defeating a lock. Picking a lock can take seconds to hours depending on the lock and the skill of the person trying to do it. Defeating most (not talking bank vaults here) locks and safes can usually be accomplished in less than 10 minutes if you don't care about damaging the container and given the proper tools.
 
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since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Had a friend of mine years ago who was a welder. He'd made a homemade gun safe from 3/4" hardened steel plating. Very simple design using a dual-padlocked key-holed retaining bar across the front plate.
 

Sheldon

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
556
Location
Battle Creek, ,
Golly I am trying to remember where I saw the gag video on the California Biometric gun vault. If anyone can find it please post, but short version... BG breaks in, call given to police, BG has gun, owner tries to get into his gun safe.... You can guess the rest...
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Golly I am trying to remember where I saw the gag video on the California Biometric gun vault. If anyone can find it please post, but short version... BG breaks in, call given to police, BG has gun, owner tries to get into his gun safe.... You can guess the rest...

This reminds me of those wooden toy puzzle boxes. If a metal one were similarly constructed, it wouldn't be to keep determined criminals out. Rather, it would be to keep them from gaining rapid access, while affording the owner near-immediate access (a second or two).

Biometrics :banghead: Please don't get me started.
 

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
Is it just me or it's there suddenly an over abundance of people making posts like these?


Posted using my HTC Evo

The new rules I have in place to block posting of links from spammers lead to their bots making these kind of posts without links sometimes. :)

Then I ip ban their country and they use proxies in the US. :)

The dance continues.


John
 
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