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Thread: illegal gun sales

  1. #1
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    illegal gun sales

    Just saw on local news about a story concerning 5 out of 8 online gun sellers sold guns illegally by not doing a background check. fox 21 had the story, but the most confusing part was they mentioned that online gun sales dont require background checks. So what exactly was illegal if theres no law about that?

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    If they were FFLs, then they would be illegal sales.
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    More BS. People buying guns from online sites have to have it shipped to an in-state FFL for transfer, where a 4473 is filled out along with a NICS check. Uninformed people will think that people can order firearms online and have it shipped to their door with no paperwork, FFL, or NICS check.
    Aaah, the good old days. I remember buying $15.00 rifles out of Field & Stream classified and having them delivered through the mail.

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    But back then.......

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Aaah, the good old days. I remember buying $15.00 rifles out of Field & Stream classified and having them delivered through the mail.
    As I recall, we had to walk thru 3' snow drifts 2 miles to school UP HILL both ways and fight off the Saber Tooth Tigers along the way.

    My 3 daughters keep reminding me that I am now officially OTD. (Older Than Dirt)

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    As I recall, we had to walk thru 3' snow drifts 2 miles to school UP HILL both ways and fight off the Saber Tooth Tigers along the way.

    My 3 daughters keep reminding me that I am now officially OTD. (Older Than Dirt)
    Yep! Once killed a Grizzly Bear with my loose leaf notebook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yep! Once killed a Grizzly Bear with my loose leaf notebook.
    Bored him to death?

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    Exclamation Illegal Gun Sales

    The issue is that some people are selling guns using the internet to conduct a "face-to-face" or private sales of firearms. The piece claimed that "unlicensed" dealers were knowingly selling guns to people that may not be able to pass a background check.

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    Yes I saw this last night as I was going to sleep, needless to say it took me a little while to calm down.

    They played some audio between a seller and perspective buyer whom said he could not pass a background check and the comments were basically it was ok.

    They never clarified in the piece on wdbj, I believe it was, if the sale was an online ffl/dealer or not but they did show the armslist website. So I am thinking they are going after/referring to private sales. My question is could the individuals selling legally possess the firearms or not. For what we now it could have been both parties could not legally poses a firearm.

    Very hit and run in the way it was presented to me.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by p.publius View Post
    The issue is that some people are selling guns using the internet to conduct a "face-to-face" or private sales of firearms. The piece claimed that "unlicensed" dealers were knowingly selling guns to people that may not be able to pass a background check.
    No proof was presented, all smoke and mirrors. If laws were broken on either side of a transaction, prosecute. Don't waste my time with your ranting and posturing Mr. Bloomie - we have enough laws on the books to handle this.

    Bloomie and his ink don't want you to be law abiding - they want you disarmed! He will say or do anything, repeat anything, to that end. Even break the law himself.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I hate to be "that guy" but didn't Virginia pass a law against Bloomie sending his goons into Virginia (physically or via movement of electrons) to do this sort of thing?

    And these Bloomie stooges - are they posing as Virginia residents? Or did Bloomie hire actual Virginia residents to do his dirty work here?

    Has the AG's office said anything about this yet? And if not, why not?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I hate to be "that guy" but didn't Virginia pass a law against Bloomie sending his goons into Virginia (physically or via movement of electrons) to do this sort of thing?

    And these Bloomie stooges - are they posing as Virginia residents? Or did Bloomie hire actual Virginia residents to do his dirty work here?

    Has the AG's office said anything about this yet? And if not, why not?

    stay safe.
    I had the same questions Skid.
    I can't find the answers but if NY'ers are coming here, I hope Cuccinelli gives them a nice long paid visit.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I hate to be "that guy" but didn't Virginia pass a law against Bloomie sending his goons into Virginia (physically or via movement of electrons) to do this sort of thing?

    And these Bloomie stooges - are they posing as Virginia residents? Or did Bloomie hire actual Virginia residents to do his dirty work here?

    Has the AG's office said anything about this yet? And if not, why not?

    stay safe.
    I thought so too, Skid but can't find it....need coffee.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    well,,,

    another thread linked me to recent articals by workman and codrea about this topic,
    one of them talked about blumie not doing this in virginia because he would be sued!!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Don't forget, these anti-gun folks will not admit it and will even deny it to the press, but they actually believe that any non-government person who owns or possesses a gun is already a criminal. They have to keep their views framed in a context and euphemistic wording that is not so bizarre as to outrage the average citizen.

    If you read them long enough, you will see that it slips out from time to time.

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I thought so too, Skid but can't find it....need coffee.
    I'm thinking it is buried somewhere in here http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...00+cod+9.1-139 regarding private investigators. Based on my faulty memory the flap last time was the goons Bloomie sent to gun shows were acting as private investigators or were NYC private investigators working in Virginia without proper credentials.

    I could be wrong and there is some other section of the Code where all this is buried.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Riana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yep! Once killed a Grizzly Bear with my loose leaf notebook.
    Quote Originally Posted by architect View Post
    Bored him to death?
    I figured he ran out of ammunition.

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    Cool Virginia code 1950 reference and linky

    Here is the link detailing that it is a class 6 felony violation to conduct simulated stings for firearms sales by unauthroized people...specifically, Bloomie. Go down to L1 of the link and read it for yourself.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0509

    Then AG McDonnell sent Bloomberg a letter warning him not to conduct simulated stings in the Commonwealth. McDonnell is also the person responsible for recommending the bill prohibiting the activity. It was part of the 2007 session, HB 2653.
    Last edited by LRS76251; 12-16-2011 at 03:16 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRS76251 View Post
    Here is the link detailing that it is a class 6 felony violation to conduct simulated stings for firearms sales by unauthroized people...specifically, Bloomie. Go down to L1 of the link and read it for yourself.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0509

    Then AG McDonnell sent Bloomberg a letter warning him not to conduct simujlated stings in the Commonwealth. McDonnell is also the person responsible for recommending the bill prohibiting the activity. It was part of the 2007 session, HB 2653.
    That's it! Was right there in front of me all along.

    § 18.2-308.2:2 of the Code of Virginia

    L1. Any person who attempts to solicit, persuade, encourage, or entice any dealer to transfer or otherwise convey a firearm other than to the actual buyer, as well as any other person who willfully and intentionally aids or abets such person, shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to a federal law-enforcement officer or a law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101, in the performance of his official duties, or other person under his direct supervision.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That's it! Was right there in front of me all along.

    § 18.2-308.2:2 of the Code of Virginia
    L1. Any person who attempts to solicit, persuade, encourage, or entice any dealer to transfer or otherwise convey a firearm other than to the actual buyer, as well as any other person who willfully and intentionally aids or abets such person, shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to a federal law-enforcement officer or a law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101, in the performance of his official duties, or other person under his direct supervision.
    Looks like it leaves out attempts to bait private sellers.

    TFred

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    Yep, I noticed that as well TFred. Maybe it needs to be fixed. Bloomie and his ilk will always try to work the loopholes in the law. He's a real sleazeball IMHO.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It'd be interesting to see if any of the Virginians had a C&R or if they contacted anone with an FFL.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-16-2011 at 04:13 PM.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting story from WVEC-TV in Norfolk:

    http://www.wvec.com/my-city/norfolk/...135750958.html

    I called the station right after the broadcast, and asked what was illegal about the gun sale that they attempted. (The on-air story did mention that private sales are legal in VA.) The person I spoke with claimed that it's wrong to conduct such sales, and that all a private seller has to do is call the state police to run a background check. He also said that many people felt that a background check should be required for every sale. He claimed that their story was really a story about Bloomberg's efforts to identify illegal gun sales and sellers. But he wouldn't tell me what law was being violated by the station's attempt to purchase the rifle. He refused to debate the issue with me and hung up the phone.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    Here's an interesting story from WVEC-TV in Norfolk:

    http://www.wvec.com/my-city/norfolk/...135750958.html

    I called the station right after the broadcast, and asked what was illegal about the gun sale that they attempted. (The on-air story did mention that private sales are legal in VA.) The person I spoke with claimed that it's wrong to conduct such sales, and that all a private seller has to do is call the state police to run a background check. He also said that many people felt that a background check should be required for every sale. He claimed that their story was really a story about Bloomberg's efforts to identify illegal gun sales and sellers. But he wouldn't tell me what law was being violated by the station's attempt to purchase the rifle. He refused to debate the issue with me and hung up the phone.
    If he didn't complete the transaction, how does he know it wasn't some LEA running a sting? Maybe most of the people who say they are willing to buy and sell without regard to eligibility are LEAs running stings? Hmm...?

    TFred

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    Regular Member John Canuck's Avatar
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    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...alerts_article


    So much for the claim of anti-gunners that we need *“home rule.”* That’s just code for they want to rule your home, anyway.

    And that’s the case with this latest publicity stunt, one that at least takes the mask off the lie that the anti-self-defense lobby wants to close a mythical “gun show loophole”—their true (immediate) goal is to end all private sales, and use that as the beachhead from which to launch their next assault.

  25. #25
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    I listened to that story fairly carefully. I had the impression that the entire thing was about private intrastate transfers. It had nothing to do with real dealers. They were simply mischaracterizing private parties as "dealers" simply because they were engaged in selling their own property. They did have a recording of some "undercover" guy talking on the 'phone with a prospective seller, and saying something about how he was worried he might not pass a background check if he'd bought from a real dealer, and the seller said something about how private sellers don't have to do background checks. That was the most damning evidence they had. (I was thinking at the time that Fox (D.C. air channel 5) is broadcasting this into Maryland, where the possession or use of an unconsensual recording of a private conversation is a felony.)
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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