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Letter I sent to Simon Malls (Southridge mall)

bigdaddy1

bigdaddy1

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Joined
May 7, 2009
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1,320
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Southsider der hey
They post.

I noticed that the Southridge Shopping Mall in Greendale Wisconsin has no weapons postings at the mall entrances. I assume you are aware that Wisconsin has recently passed legislation that permits law abiding citizens the right of self defense and the ability to carry concealed weapons. It is also legal to carry holstered firearms openly in Wisconsin. Citizens that receive a concealed carry license go through an extensive back ground check by the Wisconsin Department of Justice and required firearms safety training before they are issued a concealed carry license. I also assume you are aware that criminals will not obey your postings and will carry firearms regardless of your signage. Posting such signs will only affect those law abiding citizens, and leave them prey to those who will not. Wisconsin also has included in their legislation immunity from liability for businesses that do not post due to actions of customers or employee's. For those business that choose to post they inherit that liability for the safety of their customers and employees. I recommend you remove these postings as they have shown to be ineffective against stopping the criminal element from bringing in firearms, and will permit those law abiding citizens ability to defend themselves, and will not infringe our constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Thank you for your time, and please contact me if you have any questions regarding this issue.
 
Russf

Russf

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I was shopping at southridge mall lat weekend. I went into Kolhs department store through there enterance. No signs posted on there doors. I needed to go to boston store so I walked to the enterance of the mall through kohls and yet again there were no signs. So I walked through the mall to get to Boston store. Not once did I see a sign posted anywhere. Also I was at Bayshore mall and did not see one sign anywhere on the grounds or any stores there. Even on the enterances to the inside mall shopping. As far as I could see Bayshore mall is not posted...
 
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bigdaddy1

bigdaddy1

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Southridge mall does post but not with the "official" signage. They have it in the "mall rules" posted by each door. Next time I go I will take a picture of it. I haven't shopped at Bayshore for over a decade but I think it was in the paper or the news that they will not allow firearms on the premises.
 
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Russf

Russf

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bigdaddy1 said:
Southridge mall does post but not with the "official" signage. They have it in the "mall rules" posted by each door. Next time I go I will take a picture of it. I haven't shopped at Bayshore for over a decade but I think it was in the paper or the news that they will not allow firearms on the premises.
Click to expand...

My point is, how can you follow there rules if you dont see the rules anywhere. now if I walked into the mall through the mall enterance then I may see them but thats not what i did..Putting something in the paper is not posting signs therefore I assume it is ok to go armed.
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
And you are correct. Unfortunately it will take a test case to drive the point home. Be not the one. Maybe Hugh 'Fagin' Jarmis will step up.
 
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MKEgal

MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
Russf said:
I was at Bayshore mall and did not see one sign anywhere on the grounds or any stores there.
Click to expand...
Last I was over there (2 weeks ago?) they had signs at the roads/driveways entering the property.
Haven't gone back to measure them, but I doubt they're the correct size to prohibit carry on property, and anyway there's an exception in the law something to the effect of "you can post unless your intent is to prohibit people carrying firearms on your property".

I'm on my way to the coffee shop breakfast meet, so will have to dig up the exact wording later, but there's a PDF in my sig you can search.
 
I

islandbayy

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Nov 28, 2011
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Greendale
I'd like to know more opinions on this as well. Entered through Boston Store with the Wife & Kids, proceeded to go right into main mall through B.S. and did not see a single sign of any type. I too would like a more "confirmation" if it is still ok to carry.

Cheers!
 
bigdaddy1

bigdaddy1

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IMO, if the MALL posts you are only responsible for the MALL itself. As the stores are rented or leased, and they have their own rights if a store in the mall does not post then the malls authority ends at that store entrance. What needs clarification is if a store has its own entrance and also enteres into the mall where a sign may not be posted would you be responsible for knowing?
 
E

E6chevron

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Oct 8, 2011
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Milwaukee Wisconsin
I try to use the statutes themselves when trying to understand the law:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/943/II/13

943.13(1m)(c)2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility.
...
943.13(2)(am) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant within the meaning of sub. (1m) (b), (e) or (f) if he or she has been notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is posted. Land is considered to be posted under this paragraph under either of the following procedures:
...
943.13(2)(bm)1. In this paragraph, "sign" means a sign that states a restriction imposed under subd. 2. that is at least 5 inches by 7 inches.
_ 2.
...
__ am. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., 4., and 5., an owner or occupant of a part of a nonresidential building, the state or a local governmental unit, or a university or a college has notified an individual not to enter or remain in a part of the building while carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if the owner, occupant, state, local governmental unit, university, or college has posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the part of the building to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the building can be reasonably expected to see the sign.

__ b. For the purposes of sub. (1m) (c) 2., an owner or occupant of the grounds of a nonresidential building or of land has notified an individual not to enter or remain on the grounds or land while carrying a firearm or with a particular type of firearm if the owner or occupant has posted a sign that is located in a prominent place near all probable access points to the grounds or land to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the grounds or land can be reasonably expected to see the sign.
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For a mall,
* Firearms are always allowed in a vehicle being driven or in the parking facility.
* The firearms carrier has to be notified personally, either orally or in writing,
-- OR
* The buildings need to be posted prominently at every entrance to the portion of the building that is restricted.
* The grounds need to be posted at all probable access points to the grounds that are restricted.
 
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H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Don't miss the prima facie proof of posting!

Wisconsin Statutes
943.13 Trespass to land.
[ ... ]
(2) (am) A person has received notice from the owner or occupant within the meaning of sub. (1m) (b), (e) or (f) if he or she has been notified personally, either orally or in writing, or if the land is posted. Land is considered to be posted under this paragraph under either of the following procedures:
1. [ ... ]Proof that appropriate signs as provided in this subdivision were erected or in existence upon the premises to be protected prior to the event complained of shall be prima facie proof that the premises to be protected were posted as provided in this subdivision.
Click to expand...
 
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