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Thread: Run in with cop at Glenbrook mall in Ft Wayne

  1. #1
    Regular Member patriotjason's Avatar
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    Angry Run in with cop at Glenbrook mall in Ft Wayne

    So my girlfriend and I were doing some christmas shopping and i happened to be open carrying. We entered in thru sears. I checked the doors and made sure they weren't a posted no carry zone. We entered the mall thru Sears and I didn't see any signs anywhere saying I couldn't carry my firearm. We were in Kirklands when a security guard and ft wayne leo came up to me out of no where. The leo tells me to keep my hands away from my gun and goes on to state this is private property and that Im not allowed to carry in the mall. He said there were signs at the entrances saying that no weapons were allowed. The officer was kind of a dick. He kept telling me his opinion as if it were law as he escorted me out of the mall saying I need a more secure holster and that I need to get one that can be worn concealed. I left and locked my gun in the car and returned to finish shopping. As I came back in I used one of the mall main entrances by TGIfridays and there were signs but not a single one mentioned anything about a weapons let alone firearms. To say the least Im quite pissed this cop had the balls to just stand there and lie to my face. Just curious what anyones take on this is. Im from ohio and have my cch. I didn't wanna try and argue with the leo since i wasn't sure on the specifics of open carry in Indiana

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    First welcome to OCDO (OpenCarryDotOrg).

    Second, the LEO may not have actually been lying to you. If private property owners do not prefer to have OC on their property, in most cases they can ask you to leave. The LEO may have been giving you opinions on your type of holster and being pushy, but the law precede him. Posted or not if the manager asks you to leave you must comply and then can take it up with corporate, later.

    Third, it's a good idea to get an Olympus-type voice recorder, and where legal (one and two party states, other situations vary) run it whenever you are OC in public (and sometimes it's a good idea to have when on your property, also). Get the type with a USB port and long play times and get into a habit of carrying it on you, running if you have a firearm with you.

    HTH
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    Regular Member patriotjason's Avatar
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    No one from the mall mgt asked me to leave the leo was the first one I had contact with. He was trying to say my holster wasn't secure. I can grab my gun and yank on it all day and its not coming out of my holster unless I unsnap it. Ive been reading the threads here for sometime mainly on ohio but this was my first posting so thank you for the welcome. I keep meaning to buy a voice recorder but never seem to get around to it. The cop kept interupting me when I tried to tell him that open carry was legal and He said if were gonna have a problem I'll confiscate your gun. He's lucky he didn't try anything as He would have been in violation of the law and not me. No one had asked me to leave and they were not posted. He came at me with attitude right from the get go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patriotjason View Post
    So my girlfriend and I were doing some christmas shopping and i happened to be open carrying. We entered in thru sears. I checked the doors and made sure they weren't a posted no carry zone. We entered the mall thru Sears and I didn't see any signs anywhere saying I couldn't carry my firearm. We were in Kirklands when a security guard and ft wayne leo came up to me out of no where. The leo tells me to keep my hands away from my gun and goes on to state this is private property and that Im not allowed to carry in the mall. He said there were signs at the entrances saying that no weapons were allowed. The officer was kind of a dick. He kept telling me his opinion as if it were law as he escorted me out of the mall saying I need a more secure holster and that I need to get one that can be worn concealed. I left and locked my gun in the car and returned to finish shopping. As I came back in I used one of the mall main entrances by TGIfridays and there were signs but not a single one mentioned anything about a weapons let alone firearms. To say the least Im quite pissed this cop had the balls to just stand there and lie to my face. Just curious what anyones take on this is. Im from ohio and have my cch. I didn't wanna try and argue with the leo since i wasn't sure on the specifics of open carry in Indiana
    The way I read this, the cop was giving you the notice that the property owner did not want you OCing. The guard could have told you himself, I imagine, never calling the police. But, for whatever reason security had the cop at least as back up, and had maybe designated the cop to act on their behalf temporarily in the potential trespassing manner. Regardless of signs, the cop was giving you the legally important notification. Meaning, had you refused, I'm thinking you would have been cited or arrested for trespassing. I suspect it doesn't really matter whether there are signs. The in-person notification counts.

    If the cop had been pleasant about it, things would have made more sense. But, some cops seem to specialize in creating confusion, also in making people think that they have to comply just because a cop orders it. Imagine if the cop had said, "Sir, excuse me. This is an official contact. The property owner is exercising their rights under the law and wishes you to leave. I must tell you that if you do not immediately begin walking with me to the door, I must arrest you for trespassing. Shall we go, sir?" "Oh, no, sir. I understand you are taken aback a little bit, and don't understand what is happening, I really do. But, that is not legally relevant. We must leave right now, or I will be compelled by my duties to arrest you for trespassing. Shall we go, sir?" Totally different way of accomplishing the same thing.

    If you want to formally complain about the cop's demeanor and false information to his department go ahead. You have a 1st Amendment right to petition government for redress of grievances. However, you will first want to check carefully that you were not committing any gun offenses or anything in the jurisdiction where the encounter occurred. Cops screw up. And, that can include overlooking a cite-able offense that you can bring to their attention with a complaint.

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    Was at Glenbrook yesterday. There are no signs posted. I was carring but had my pull over on. It was still obvious I was carring. No troubles but I was in and out. They say FWPD can be assess about open carring but the FWPD cop I know says OC is legal and they all should know that. Didnt see any security so they musta been busy with you lol. Havent OC, at least cant remember doing so at the mall. Only go there twice a year anyway.

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    I always have a hard time thinking quickly on the spot, but I've been studying the law (not just handgun but many other laws) so that I can differentiate between an officer's opinion and the law. That way when he starts spouting opinion (like "you need to conceal that") I can say "thank you for your opinion, officer, may I go now?"

    They always seem to avoid me when I'm open carrying though. I guess I'll have to try something else, since I'm only doing it to get attention. <<Kidding!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    Was at Glenbrook yesterday. There are no signs posted. I was carring but had my pull over on. It was still obvious I was carring. No troubles but I was in and out. They say FWPD can be assess about open carring but the FWPD cop I know says OC is legal and they all should know that. Didnt see any security so they musta been busy with you lol. Havent OC, at least cant remember doing so at the mall. Only go there twice a year anyway.
    Actually, there are signs, at least one that I know of. Look at the main entrances and not at any outside store entrance or inside store entrance. The one I've seen posted is inside the main entrance facing Coliseum. Now to the OP, as for the legalities of carrying, whether it be open or concealed, remember this, private property means that short of violating your civil rights (denying you service, etc. based on your color, creed, sex, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, etc.), the property owner or someone acting as an agent thereof, can do pretty much what they will ... within the law. And this, unfortunately, does include prohibiting the carrying of firearms or any other type of weapon on the premesis. Does this suck? Absolutely. Do you have any recourse? Yes, you can either a) carry concealed, or b) shop someplace else.

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    I have never used a main door. Usually its thru Sears. Never see any, so I cant be faulted. They should be at all doors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hogeater f6 View Post
    I have never used a main door. Usually its thru Sears. Never see any, so I cant be faulted. They should be at all doors.
    Agreed, the sign should be posted at all entrances to the main mall floor.

  10. #10
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    Was there again last week and went thru Sears. Didnt see any nor did I see any posted around the mall. It was in my pocket.

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    I've personally open carried through Macys, Pacsun, Spencers, and some other stores in the mall. I carry a stainless FNP40 in a black hawk holster, so it's rather large and obvious that I am. Only problem I've had are with people that think it's illegal to open carry. Most people side with the FWPD and their view on the carrying laws. Most local law enforcement in Fort Wayne are extremely uneducated on the gun laws, and what is legal. I personally love seeing people open carry, it honestly makes me feel a little safer. I personally think that people need to stop being so skiddish when they see a gun on the hip. 99% of people that plan on doing harm with their weapons don't carry them in plain sight...

  12. #12
    Regular Member vermonter's Avatar
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    Malls

    All malls across the USA generally have policies. In S Burl VT there is a very small sign. Signs have no weight of law, but like ALL state with no weight of law rules you will be trespassed or at the least thrown out. If you go to the mall pull your shirt over it so you don;t get a trespass. I bet this Glenbrook Mall will have signs now that you have made it an issue, not that they have weight of law in Indiana! I would never OC into a mall knowing the atmosphere of malls. they are ALL owned by a handful of companies. I was in Michigan City Indiana last year and the run down ghetto mall had a sighn stating carriers would be arrested. I carried CC like a always do and ignored it....

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGordon42
    ...private property means that short of violating your civil rights (denying you service, etc. based on your color, creed, sex, sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, etc.), the property owner... can do pretty much what they will... And this, unfortunately, does include prohibiting the carrying of firearms...

    I'm getting used to the confusion/ignorance from anti's & even the uninformed,
    but here on a 2A-supportive board?!?!
    The Bill of Rights specifically protects certain rights that are enumerated, among which is bearing arms (2A).
    It's a civil right just as much as religion (1A).
    If it's wrong to refuse someone's money because they're wearing a [insert religious symbol here], it's just as wrong to refuse someone who is lawfully armed.

    Now we get into a discussion of private property control v. inherent natural rights.
    I think my right to life overrides the wishes of some company's lawyers.
    But if they don't want to take my money, I'll shop somewhere else.

    Unfortunately, with the current state of the legal system, Citizen is right -
    private property control trumps a real person's inherent natural right to self-defense.
    The system is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    The Bill of Rights specifically protects certain rights that are enumerated, among which is bearing arms (2A). It's a civil right just as much as religion (1A). If it's wrong to refuse someone's money because they're wearing a [insert religious symbol here], it's just as wrong to refuse someone who is lawfully armed.

    Now we get into a discussion of private property control v. inherent natural rights. I think my right to life overrides the wishes of some company's lawyers.
    This might very well be a winning argument. Can Meijer or a shopping mall legally throw you out of the store for wearing a Star of David?
    Last edited by griffin; 02-07-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    I'm getting used to the confusion/ignorance from anti's & even the uninformed,
    but here on a 2A-supportive board?!?!
    The Bill of Rights specifically protects certain rights that are enumerated, among which is bearing arms (2A).
    It's a civil right just as much as religion (1A).
    If it's wrong to refuse someone's money because they're wearing a [insert religious symbol here], it's just as wrong to refuse someone who is lawfully armed.

    Now we get into a discussion of private property control v. inherent natural rights.
    I think my right to life overrides the wishes of some company's lawyers.
    But if they don't want to take my money, I'll shop somewhere else.

    Unfortunately, with the current state of the legal system, Citizen is right -
    private property control trumps a real person's inherent natural right to self-defense.
    The system is wrong.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wg...eature=related
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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