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Thread: My latest run in at the DMV

  1. #1
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    My latest run in at the DMV

    They took down the signage so I didn't think I would have a problem. I was hoping to get another 30 days for the Jeep that we got.

    Couldn't so on the way out the security guard follows me out and tells me that I can't carry and that it's a misdemeanor. I told him that he was wrong and that he would show me. He turns around looking for the signage on the door. Then goes inside to get the supervisor. She comes out and reiterates the same thing. And tells me that the cops are on their way. Shortly thereafter I make contact. That's where the video starts.


    I would embed it but OCDO doesn't support Ustream. I was streaming it live just in case something happened. One gets real pissed at my comment 2 mins in.

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19208322

    Hopefully nobody gets a cramp in their neck from trying to watch.
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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 08:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    Before the cops showed up I asked then to show me where it said I couldn't. That's when she said the cops where on their way.

    Thanx for the complement, I was pretty nervous.

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    Sabotage-

    This is NOT a criticism, just a few questions. Everyone handles a situation like this differently and only you can decide for yourself how to react. I applaud you for walking away without any criminal charges, that's always goal #1! :-)

    Why did you let them take your gun? Why did you let them take your ID? Why did you unlock your car for them?

    Did they tell you what crime you are suspected of committing which authorized them to detain you, seize and search your property?

    I got pissed watching it. The cop at 11:40 saying "You're subject to the business." as if the DMV is a private business that can make their own rules. Did you get names and personnel numbers?

    Which DMV was this?

    Tim
    Last edited by timf343; 12-17-2011 at 05:45 PM.

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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    I am watching now...curious...did you refuse to leave when asked to? Is that why they are so antsy?

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    You can file a complaint here:

    http://www.lvmpd.com/about/ia_complaints.html

    "Trespass" can be done obviously by any private business which asks you to leave and you don't. But in a public building, where you have lawful business (such as requesting an additional 30 day tag), you cannot be asked to leave unless you're breaking the law.

    Perhaps the strongest evidence of this is the explicit nature of Nevada law. See NRS 202.265, which defines all the places where you may not carry a weapon, whether open or concealed. Then, NRS 202.3673 further limits where a CCW holder may carry a concealed weapon. Much like the fact that open carry is legal despite no law "authorizing" it, the fact that NRS 202.265 and 202.3673 are silent upon carrying non-concealed into a public building is prima facie evidence that the legislature considered such activities to be lawful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabotage70 View Post
    They took down the signage so I didn't think I would have a problem.
    Wait, I just re-read this. Are you saying there are NO signs at that DMV? Perhaps they'd rather allow CC then force OC? It doesn't change the fact that OC is still legal, but if there are no signs, CC would also be legal there.

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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    Also not criticizing you, as I am sure you were quite nervous...I have no idea how I would have handled it...but...

    Why were you not asking them to define the law? You said, yep a LOT...in fact to almost everything they said.

    When they say, "Do you understand?" and you say, yep...it is the same as agreeing that they are right.

    "No, I don't understand? From my understanding, a government building is public and therefore they cannot file a trespass, or deny my access regardless if carrying unless I am breaking a law. Could you show me the law I am breaking or show me the NRS that allows a government/pulic building the right to trespass me, a co-owner, as a member of the public?"

    Perhaps someone could put together a nice card/pamphlet with the law regarding this particular issue, to have on hand anytime we are visiting public buildings and a dumb security guard wants to spout verbal nonesense.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    You're subject to the business.
    I respect the fact that you didn't want to argue with the police officer. It is pretty hard to argue with an idiot.

    But I am disappointed at the fact that they had your drivers license, your gun, and access to your car.

    This was YOUR choice and I'm not picking on you at all. It is just a pet peeve of MINE when I see cops harass open carrying Americans for doing nothing wrong and the open carry is all "yes sir" and saying things like "thank you." (not sure if I heard that exactly in YOUR video, but I've seen plenty of it). It just grinds my gears. If I am ever violated by a police officer who has stepped outside his line of duty to enforce his opinion and emotions on me with his badge I will show no respect. I would not physically resist in this situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't be cooperative.

    With THAT said, I am not familiar with the laws in Nevada, maybe you were resisting the best you could within some unconstitutional duty to ID, give access to car, give gun away law. I don't know.

    Overall, this is outrageous and I am eager to see what you write to the leadership at the DMV and that police dept. (Please remember to keep that business quote in there, that was just crazy. business...PFFFFFFFFFFFF)
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  10. #10
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "Get your ID out sir."
    "ID? What ID? I don't carry Eye-Dee. I might carry a license, but that's only when I'm performing a licensed activity. Am I performing a licensed activity, Officer?"

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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 08:26 PM.

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    so the big question of the day is can the public be trespassed from a public building?

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    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    I was actually on my out the door when the security guard followed me out.

    The cop walked up behind me and grabbed my gun. And from there I pretty much forgot everything I learned.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabotage70 View Post
    I was actually on my out the door when the security guard followed me out.

    The cop walked up behind me and grabbed my gun. And from there I pretty much forgot everything I learned.

    Sent from the Droid on roids
    No worries, it's always like that the first time or two.

    "I'm sorry, Officer, are you detaining me on suspicion of having committed a crime? No? Then we're just having a friendly little conversation right?
    Yeah, well in that case; I don't have friendly little chats with people unless I'm as well armed as they are. So, I guess the question is, do I get my gun back and we have a friendly conversation, Or, do I get my gun back and I go skipping along my merry little way?"

    If I'm not under arrest or being detained, then Officer Friendly is Not in charge of the conversation.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 12-17-2011 at 07:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    so the big question of the day is can the public be trespassed from a public building?
    There are two laws I can find:

    NRS 206.140 Nuisance in building; trespass upon grounds; disturbing assembly. Every person who:
    1. Commits any nuisance in any building, public or private;
    2. Commits any trespass upon the grounds attached thereto, or any fixtures placed thereon, or any enclosure or sidewalk about the building; or
    3. In any manner interferes with or disturbs those peaceably assembled within the building, shall be guilty of a public offense proportionate to the value of any property damaged or destroyed, but in no event less than a misdemeanor.

    And the one cited above, NRS 207.200.

    How could you be trespassed from the DMV? You would have to violate a rule of the property owner. Since the State of NV is the property owner, they write their rules in the form of laws. The laws establish limits on what you can do where. For example, NRS 202.265 says even though you own a gun, and your child attends school, if you go to pick her up from school, you can't bring the gun with you, even though you have a legal right to be there.

    There are OTHER buildings owned by the State where you have no right to be, despite the fact that they are publicly owned. These would be places like the highway maintenance building on the side of the road, the Governor's mansion, or the DMV when it's closed.

    Arguably it comes down to whether or not you have a "lawful right" to be there. You have no business at a highway maintenance building, but you certainly do at the DMV. If you go, and you're breaking no laws, some bureaucrat can't override the property owner's wishes (in this case, the people of NV, thru the legislature), no matter how much power they think they have. It'd be no different than if they said "You can't bring your kids with you." or "You can't talk on your cell phone." But, ironically it is not the carrying of a gun, but those two examples of kids and cell phones, that in fact could violate NRS 206.140 above depending on the circumstances.

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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 08:25 PM.

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    Time to make some more calls to the DMV. And the DMV is not a business... It's a government facility.

    I think you handled it fine. I don't like "fighting" the cops on the street. They will not listen. You have to make your point through IA and with lawyers. All you can do is assert your rights, and handle it as best as you can. it's hard to play by the rules when they don't.

    It's great how you can be on the strip with an assault riffle one minute with no issues, and then in the DMV with a pistol and get rolled up there.
    "I rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6."
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

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    Regular Member jdholmes's Avatar
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    What baffles me with all this is...I thought we had the issue of the DMV dealt with? When they took down the signs, shouldn't they have sent a notice around or a mass email? The employees all should be aware...why are we dealing with this again?

    And absolutely you should be going after both the DMV and the metro...their behavior was just /wrong/ and you have video to prove it.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    Tim, yes they did take the signs down.the security was going to point them out but they where gone.

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    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryMike View Post
    Time to make some more calls to the DMV. And the DMV is not a business... It's a government facility.

    I think you handled it fine. I don't like "fighting" the cops on the street. They will not listen. You have to make your point through IA and with lawyers. All you can do is assert your rights, and handle it as best as you can. it's hard to play by the rules when they don't.

    It's great how you can be on the strip with an assault riffle one minute with no issues, and then in the DMV with a pistol and get rolled up there.
    Lol.

    We actually hung out for about 15 mins with slung AR's after we took the pics. And about a half hour OC with pistols before.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdholmes View Post
    What baffles me with all this is...I thought we had the issue of the DMV dealt with? When they took down the signs, shouldn't they have sent a notice around or a mass email? The employees all should be aware...why are we dealing with this again?

    And absolutely you should be going after both the DMV and the metro...their behavior was just /wrong/ and you have video to prove it.
    At a guess...
    They took the signs down because they had to,
    they keep quiet about it because they didn't want to
    (have to take them down, that is.)

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    I don't think they had to take them down because state law gives them the authority to restrict the carry of concealed weapons in public buildings. I'm thinking it was actually something else - without the signs, concealed carry is 100% legal by a CCW holders. I think they took them down so that someone who is CC is not required to OC. Obviously doesn't change the fact that you can't conceal without a CCW, so OC is the only choice for some.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Las Vegan's Avatar
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    Sab, PM sent.
    "The right of self-defense never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals."
    - President James Monroe

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    Did you get names and badge #s? Whats the next move?

  25. #25
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    I'm going to file a complaint. To be honest i'm going to need a little help. I'll get the ball rolling Monday. I've been away from home all day so I haven't been able to look anything up yet.

    I got the DMV supervisor's contact info. So I got that to start with.

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