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Thread: Lynnwood Walmart on 164th

  1. #1
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    Lynnwood Walmart on 164th

    Let me start by saying I started open carrying about 3 months ago and shop at Walmart both in Lynnwood & Everett and never had the cops called on me.

    But today I went to go exchange a gift as I bought a shirt for my lead which ended up being to big, so as I get out a older man and looks to be grand son were leaving walmart and I walked across of them and I guess he saw my firearm but I wasn't paying attention to him so I go to the clerk in the front to get a tag for the exchange and then walked back to where the shirts were and grabbed a new one and headed back toward the return area.

    As I was slowly walking back toward the line, I see a little kid pointing in my direction and I see its the same old man with him and he was talking to the clerk asking for the manager as "that man has a gun" and the clerk says well he is allowed to. (+1 for walmart clerk) But then he goes on saying if you feel threatened you can call the cops. (by this time I am in line and can hear every word the guy is saying and he is 5 steps away from me with his kid but he is threatened right?)

    Line takes about 10-15mins to get to the front and with no sight of any cops I thought maybe they weren't coming. But then as I left three sheriffs greet me and say "I'm sure you know why we are here right?" while smiling and I said I do and understand you are only doing your job. They then ask if I have a cpl and if its loaded and I said yes to both and then they ask why not just hide it then and I just told them because its a large gun (XDm). One asks to see my ID to check up on me and I said even though I don't have to, since you guys are being so nice about it I will (also needed to be somewhere by a certain time and had no time to deal with it)

    5 seconds later I am free to go and the guy which was parked next to me started driving off and when I got to the exit he and his grandson could not stop giving me the glare haha

    thanks for reading and I think walmart and the sheriffs did a great job in this one compared to a few I have seen.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    But then he goes on saying if you feel threatened you can call the cops. (by this time I am in line and can hear every word the guy is saying and he is 5 steps away from me with his kid but he is threatened right?)
    Sounds like he knew the law verbatum, and used it to harrass you. Although "the mere carrying of a weapon in a holster is not cause for alarm". Who was alarmed and who called police to complain? The old guy? His problem on a malicious complaint. WalMart? Why would they call after telling him it was legal. Sounds like 911 call may have been botched also.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member mtlhdtodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    ...when I got to the exit he and his grandson could not stop giving me the glare haha

    thanks for reading and I think walmart and the sheriffs did a great job in this one compared to a few I have seen.
    Me being the get along type, this is where I would have told the old d-bag that he was no. 1 with me and given him a big phuck you very much!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Sounds like he knew the law verbatum, and used it to harrass you. Although "the mere carrying of a weapon in a holster is not cause for alarm". Who was alarmed and who called police to complain? The old guy? His problem on a malicious complaint. WalMart? Why would they call after telling him it was legal. Sounds like 911 call may have been botched also.
    know for a fact it was the old man. he stood outside the door and was on the phone and kept looking at me, the clerk told him I was allowed to carry but the guy just kept insisting that it was not able and thats when the clerk told him if you feel threatened you have the right to call the police. to me I was okay with the clerk telling him to do that as he was bothering the clerk with this who has his own job
    Last edited by rlacsamana1989; 12-19-2011 at 06:20 PM.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    nice DOES NOT mean comply..... one day you'll understand.

    so I'm not doing anything illegal? have a nice day officers....

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    "But then as I left three sheriffs greet me and say "I'm sure you know why we are here right?"

    My response would be, yup, you are here to educate the guy who called you that I am doing nothing illegal, have a nice day officers.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I wonder why people forget everything they've learned on OCDO?

    When the cops come up you simply say WHY AM I BEING DETAINED? If they say you're not, you say, ok, good day.

    It takes LESS than five seconds.

    My complaint, I guess you could call it is why are you OC-ing if you're not prepared to deal with this? You have a recorder running you recite the mantra (see above) and you, thus, don't encourage the police/sheriff to abridge the law, ask for documents they have no right to see. If they run your serial number and mistype it you could end up in jail or worse. If you're not willing to do the right thing, why not just CC?
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 12-19-2011 at 07:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    nice DOES NOT mean comply..... one day you'll understand.

    so I'm not doing anything illegal? have a nice day officers....
    +1

    To the OP,

    I understand you were trying to be polite, but a few things to think about. You were OCing, no need for a CPL, no need to even give that information. Also what business is it of theirs if its loaded (although I have no idea why it wouldn't be)? Lastly, you willingly allowed them to violate your 4th ammendment right by giving them your ID. Now say the DA decides to try to make an example of you, they have your information and file charges. They had no RAS to demand ID. Better to just ask if you are being detained and if they say no, walk away.

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Either this guy intentionally lied about your actions to get the police to come, or 911 dispatch knowingly sent police out to someone that wasn't breaking the law. So either this guy made a false report, which is a crime, or dispatch is wasting department resources. Either way, I'd be trying to correct whatever it was.
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  10. #10
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    ^^ Good points. But remember you don't ask IF you ask WHY am I being detained. If you do that they have to answer 'you are not'. If you ask 'IF' they can counter it too easily, ignore it or stonewall you. Why is much better.
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

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  11. #11
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    Let me start by saying I started open carrying about 3 months ago and shop at Walmart both in Lynnwood & Everett and never had the cops called on me.

    But today I went to go exchange a gift as I bought a shirt for my lead which ended up being to big, so as I get out a older man and looks to be grand son were leaving walmart and I walked across of them and I guess he saw my firearm but I wasn't paying attention to him so I go to the clerk in the front to get a tag for the exchange and then walked back to where the shirts were and grabbed a new one and headed back toward the return area.

    As I was slowly walking back toward the line, I see a little kid pointing in my direction and I see its the same old man with him and he was talking to the clerk asking for the manager as "that man has a gun" and the clerk says well he is allowed to. (+1 for walmart clerk) But then he goes on saying if you feel threatened you can call the cops. (by this time I am in line and can hear every word the guy is saying and he is 5 steps away from me with his kid but he is threatened right?)

    Line takes about 10-15mins to get to the front and with no sight of any cops I thought maybe they weren't coming. But then as I left three sheriffs greet me and say "I'm sure you know why we are here right?" while smiling and I said I do and understand you are only doing your job. They then ask if I have a cpl and if its loaded and I said yes to both and then they ask why not just hide it then and I just told them because its a large gun (XDm). One asks to see my ID to check up on me and I said even though I don't have to, since you guys are being so nice about it I will (also needed to be somewhere by a certain time and had no time to deal with it)

    5 seconds later I am free to go and the guy which was parked next to me started driving off and when I got to the exit he and his grandson could not stop giving me the glare haha

    thanks for reading and I think walmart and the sheriffs did a great job in this one compared to a few I have seen.
    Their job is now to stop and ID law abiding citizens???
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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    Sounds like he knew the law verbatum, and used it to harrass you. Although "the mere carrying of a weapon in a holster is not cause for alarm". Who was alarmed and who called police to complain? The old guy? His problem on a malicious complaint. WalMart? Why would they call after telling him it was legal. Sounds like 911 call may have been botched also.
    Cause has nothing to do with it. The threshold is, is that alarm warranted. There is a huge difference between "cause" and "warrant", that's why the RCW is written the way it is.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    The ridiculousness of this situation, the FAIL of the 911 dispatcher and the FAIL of the deputies really becomes apparent if you substitute "gun" with "offensive T-shirt..."
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    I believe if an officer is polite, I shouldn't try to make their day bad. Cops are people just like us but have to deal with things like this on a daily basis. Now I agree I should of not given them my ID to check but I was already in a rush and I was about to get in a car so they might of found a way to pull me over and get it either way which I'd rather not deal with that. (not saying they would but it could happen)

    I know my rights and have learned alot from OCDO and stated to the cops that I was indeed aware that I did not have to shell out my ID to them but out of courtesy I was going to comply. & they also let me know that they explained to the man that I was not doing anything legal and really couldn't do anything but a brief check on me.

    Thanks for the input, I understand we need to stand for our rights and will take that into consideration next time I have police activity.

  15. #15
    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Come on....I know you're in a rush so just give me your ID and I'll run it real quick.

    You're late to your sons recital? Ok, do me a quick favor and just let me see your CPL! It's ok, I know you're a LAC!




    Badger, I like that. Why am I being detained?

    See, I been preparing with the :

    Am I being arrested?
    Am I being detained?
    Good day to you!

    Why am I being arrested? < Really puts them on the spot
    Why am I being detained?

    Why don't you have a good day and just leave me alone?!?!?!


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    Regular Member Jamfish's Avatar
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    Whether it's this situation or ones others have recounted for us... I suppose there's little to be gained by filing a FOIA for calls to law enforcement, getting name/information of said caller(s), and going after(legally) those who harrass you?
    Last edited by Jamfish; 12-20-2011 at 02:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    nice DOES NOT mean comply..... one day you'll understand.

    so I'm not doing anything illegal? have a nice day officers....
    I tried that once, wound up in hand cuffs for an hour. Cops don't give a crap whether your legal or not, if they decide to look at your ID, they will, one way or another.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlacsamana1989 View Post
    One asks to see my ID to check up on me and I said even though I don't have to, since you guys are being so nice about it I will

    Let me get this straight.....


    It's perfectly acceptable to trample your Constitutional Rights, if they're polite about it?

    This is what you have just said.

    I understand the difference between angry, spiteful, arrogant jerks who simply treat you as if you're a stupid commoner and polite, professional, courteous law enforcement officers who are simply doing their job.

    But to excuse WRONGFUL BEHAVIOR simply because the person doing so is nice about it, FAILS TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE.

    Of course, this is just me.

    Maybe it will take them tasing you, knocking you to the floor, and hauling you off in the back of a cruiser while smiling and saying, "Sorry. We're just doing our job." (politely) with a smile on their face for you to get it.

    I'm not going to pound on you too hard, though. For your first encounter, I think you did extremely well. Things didn't go 100% flawless with my first encounter, either. There were several things I missed, and I acted completely subordinate myself trying to "appease" the officer. Bad idea. All it did was justify his hostility when I started "playing the part" of intimidated, clueless, commoner. So, I applaud you on a fairly successful first encounter. I encourage you to look at it objectively as a "training run". The next time (and there will be a next time if you OC with any frequency) hopefully, you'll be much better prepared, and less "intimidateable".


    There are some excellent pointers here, such as "Why am I being detained?".

    Asking, "Am I free to go?" is also a good tactic as, if the officer says, "No", you have officially been detained. While you always retain the right to remain silent, upon the answer of "No", you can pointedly remind the officer you are aware of this: "Since I am being detained, I will now utilize my right to remain silent." There is now no further point in "investigating" as there is no further cooperation from you. He either walks away ending the detention, or makes an arrest resulting in a possible lawsuit if he has no reason for doing so.

    Careful, though. They may try to use the ol' "He wasn't cooperative" excuse as RAS, or probable cause. (As if, when they are trying to cook up a half-baked excuse to put you away, you're supposed to help them.)

    If he says "Yes", he just approved of you turning your back and "hoofing it" along your merry way in the opposite direction.

    I also reccommend carrying a simple DVR (Digital Voice Recorder) to "back up" any evidence of wrongdoing on the officer's part. (Check your local laws on single party consent for recording devices before doing so, though.)

    The next time this happens, you'll be much better prepared with some experience that should give you a little more confidence in standing up for your rights.

    Best of luck to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    I tried that once, wound up in hand cuffs for an hour. Cops don't give a crap whether your legal or not, if they decide to look at your ID, they will, one way or another.
    Not neccissarly, I have declined to show ID many times and have never been in cuffs for saying no.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    Cause has nothing to do with it. The threshold is, is that alarm warranted. There is a huge difference between "cause" and "warrant", that's why the RCW is written the way it is.
    Exactly. If the simple fact of possession of a gun warranted alarm, it would justify a MWAG call to 911 every time you saw a cop or noticed the storefront of a gun store.

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    If you should know exactly who and why called, I would point the perp out to the Sheriffs deputy and tell them to go talk to the person that put in the false 911 call, as what I am doing if perfectly legal. Please inform the perp that you found nothing illegal going on except with his call. He had even been told that I was doing nothing wrong by the walmart clerk, but still called 911. Now...That is what is illegal.

    The one time I was talked to by a deputy sheriff, it was two words and off he went to find the woman that made the call. no license chack, did not even ask if I had a CPL or if the gun was loaded.
    Last edited by hermannr; 12-21-2011 at 01:19 AM.

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    Regular Member Roscoe.40swMP's Avatar
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    wow! great story and replies going on here. I have not personally OC yet, I am new here and still learning. This thread has provided me with a lot of info which is great. I am waiting personally for my CPL just to make things easier for me traveling in my car and such. I like reading all the replies here it is helping me, a person who has never carried openly heading toward that direction and have some of the confidence if I were to ever have a "encounter" with the law. Great stuff keep it up!
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  23. #23
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe.40swMP View Post
    wow! great story and replies going on here. I have not personally OC yet, I am new here and still learning. This thread has provided me with a lot of info which is great. I am waiting personally for my CPL just to make things easier for me traveling in my car and such. I like reading all the replies here it is helping me, a person who has never carried openly heading toward that direction and have some of the confidence if I were to ever have a "encounter" with the law. Great stuff keep it up!
    Just remember when you OC: You are doing nothing illegal when you OC a handgun, no more so than carrying a cell phone. So don't be nervous, use a good holster, and if you feel the need to check your weapon, use your elbow not your hand.

    Nervous Nellys call attention to themselves, not necessary, and not necessarily a good thing.

    You can carry for years and never have a problem with anyone, because no one notices if you act confident that what you are doing is completely 100% legal.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Roscoe.40swMP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Just remember when you OC: You are doing nothing illegal when you OC a handgun, no more so than carrying a cell phone. So don't be nervous, use a good holster, and if you feel the need to check your weapon, use your elbow not your hand.

    Nervous Nellys call attention to themselves, not necessary, and not necessarily a good thing.

    You can carry for years and never have a problem with anyone, because no one notices if you act confident that what you are doing is completely 100% legal.
    Couldn't agree more, I see this stuff and I realize it is condensed version of all the people that carry openly. I like reading the stories and the situations and how people handle themselves. I handle weapons quiet frequently and I am confident but going out in the public could probably change all that. I know the first couple of times I am going to fee like there are laser beam eyes piercing through me.

    Theoretically, I have OC before in uniform on Whidbey Island coming home from a gun shoot. My buddy had his M9 on and was in Wendy's and I went in with him. He was inside and standing in line then all of a sudden he was like hey come outside. He felt uncomfortable and handed the weapon over to me. I wore it the rest of the way back home from Whidbey back to Bangor and any stops that we had in between with no problem. There was probably the factor of wearing my NWU's and all but people still did stare and I just shrugged it off.
    ‘‘The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.’’

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  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    He had even been told that I was doing nothing wrong by the walmart clerk, but still called 911. Now...That is what is illegal.
    Not enough LEOs left to waste (1) the LEOs time, (2) the citys resources, (3) MY bloody tax dollars. If this stuff can get past dispatch, why not prosecute for malicious mischief.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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