SB 760,761,762 passed- 26 inch pistol length.

and with this the gun owners will kill another bill (just like with SB 58. I can see their (Legislatures) frustration in us and being united.

I was going to remain "neutral" on the bill.

Your statement concerns me.

They dont, or shouldn't need to ask us, consult with us, or need our opinion on anything gun related. They are not supposed to be sheep in need of a leader. Gun controls are unconstitutional, simple as that. If there are laws restricting in any way, the law abiding from the owning or carrying of any kind of weapon in any manner, then the law should be repealed.

You don't need the consensus of opinion of the states gun owners to do that.

I wrote a letter with a little different spin... I said I thought it was NOT a good thing to have less registered guns... and that "some people would have a problem with these unregistered weapons"... of course, -I- would not have a problem with that... hehe... so we'll see what kind of response I get with playing 1/2 anti...

stainless1911 said:

Your statement concerns me.

They dont, or shouldn't need to ask us, consult with us, or need our opinion on anything gun related. They are not supposed to be sheep in need of a leader. Gun controls are unconstitutional, simple as that. If there are laws restricting in any way, the law abiding from the owning or carrying of any kind of weapon in any manner, then the law should be repealed.

You don't need the consensus of opinion of the states gun owners to do that.

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The problem you are failing to see with this bill, stainless, is that it is a good thing and a bad thing.

It's bad you won't be able to carry MI Pistols in your car any more. Kind of a bummer, I was thinking about buying a PS-90.

The good news is, I won't have to register my PS-90 -- and we can all agree that's a good thing?

Which is of more value? Carrying the MI Pistol or not having to register it? I fear that's a topic up for debate -- amongst good hearted gun owners and second amendment advocates -- even those who support OC.

stainless1911 said:

I also agree.

OT. This is nothing more than a gun control measure. IF this passes, it will further restrict our rights. Gun owners are supposed to have the majority in Lansing, but the only thing that comes out of there, is the repeal of a dueling law, and this? WTF. Vote them all out. The silencers weren't legislation, at least if it had been, it would have been something.

Eileen Kowall is my representative, she claims to be pro gun, as do many others in Lansing, but it takes more than a "fan" of guns, we need people willing to step up and do something. I will very likely NOT be voting for her again.

Click to expand...

It's sad that few so-called pro-2A, pro-CC and/or pro-OC folks realize this. If the Bills are signed into law, it does absolutely nothing to remove pistol registration in Michigan nor will it create any momentum towards ConCarry. I suspect, the reason for very little opposition from the pro-2A, etc, crowd is due to the fact that if the Bills are signed into law, those who already possess Michigan pistols are content with the fact that theirs will grandfather in and "F" everyone else, now and in the future. I don't honestly believe (FFL's) there are warehouses full of Michigan pistols that FFL's are unable to sell to Little Johnnie and Susie for hunting purposes due to the current age and registration requirements. Even if it were true, I highly doubt Little Johnnie and Susie have been anxiously awaiting to go hunting with their newly acquired, pistol grip Mossy, Mares Leg or even an AK with a folding stock.

TheQ said:

The problem you are failing to see with this bill, stainless, is that it is a good thing and a bad thing.

It's bad you won't be able to carry MI Pistols in your car any more. Kind of a bummer, I was thinking about buying a PS-90.

The good news is, I won't have to register my PS-90 -- and we can all agree that's a good thing?

Which is of more value? Carrying the MI Pistol or not having to register it? I fear that's a topic up for debate -- amongst good hearted gun owners and second amendment advocates -- even those who support OC.

Click to expand...

I do see both sides. I too would love to own a P-90 and the FN 5.7, but the main reason I'd want one, is for a car gun. I hate registration, but you dont kill a snake by cutting off its tail.

TheQ said:

Go vote on it

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First two votes casts: one for (Stainless) and one against. Both people voting are strong 2A people. You can see how this is a divisive question.

A third vote comes in that is in favor of not registering MI Pistols....and a fourth. It's 3 to 1.

Now tied 3 to 3. Hopefully you can see this is a bit more complicated....

I know the people who have answered so far. They are usually active participants on the MOC Facebook Page.

I vote to get rid of the rifle registration, once that's gone, we need to get rid of handgun registration. Then get rid of the law banning uncased rifles/shotguns in a vehicle.

Keep messing with that snakes tail, and see what it gets you.

maustin195 said:

Just a slight disagreement with what you said. The bill as passed by the Senate doesent say the Michigan Pistols have to be registered by Jan 1 2012. It says that they have to be owned,possesed,carried or transported by then.(Section 23 of bill as passed by Senate). The way I read this is you would still be legal if the bill passes as written now as long as you fill out the paperwork and buy the gun by midnight Dec. 31 2011.

Click to expand...

Actually, the House version specifies:

"SEC. 3. A PERSON WHO, BEFORE JANUARY 1, 2012, LAWFULLY OWNED, POSSESSED, CARRIED, OR TRANSPORTED A FIREARM 30 INCHES OR LESS IN LENGTH AS A PISTOL PURSUANT TO A LICENSE ISSUED UNDER SECTION 2 OR 5B OR PURSUANT TO AN EXEMPTION UNDER SECTION 2 OR 5B MAY CONTINUE TO LAWFULLY OWN, POSSESS, CARRY, OR TRANSPORT 1 THAT FIREARM AS A PISTOL ON OR AFTER JANUARY 1, 2012 PURSUANT TO THAT LICENSE OR ANY RENEWAL OF THAT LICENSE OR PURSUANT TO THAT EXEMPTION."

Yooper said:

I vote to get rid of the rifle registration, once that's gone, we need to get rid of handgun registration. Then get rid of the law banning uncased rifles/shotguns in a vehicle.

Click to expand...

Well actually you can now, if its under 30" and you have a CPL, but if you buy one after Jan 1st...

SpringerXDacp said:

It's sad that few so-called pro-2A, pro-CC and/or pro-OC folks realize this. If the Bills are signed into law, it does absolutely nothing to remove pistol registration in Michigan nor will it create any momentum towards ConCarry. I suspect, the reason for very little opposition from the pro-2A, etc, crowd is due to the fact that if the Bills are signed into law, those who already possess Michigan pistols are content with the fact that theirs will grandfather in and "F" everyone else, now and in the future. I don't honestly believe (FFL's) there are warehouses full of Michigan pistols that FFL's are unable to sell to Little Johnnie and Susie for hunting purposes due to the current age and registration requirements. Even if it were true, I highly doubt Little Johnnie and Susie have been anxiously awaiting to go hunting with their newly acquired, pistol grip Mossy, Mares Leg or even an AK with a folding stock.

Click to expand...

I agree 100% with you... it's the same attitude that got us to where we are today... "I got mine, so who cares about anyone else"... the fudds.... the sportsman... "as long as I can hunt I don't care about any other gun rights"...


At this point, I don't really care about registration, because the "important" ones to have aren't registered... (if the govt comes a knockin, they're not going to get the rifles... and the rifles are what the people would need)


I disagree with this law unless they amend it to allow CPL holders to carry loaded rifles.

HKcarrier said:

I agree 100% with you... it's the same attitude that got us to where we are today... "I got mine, so who cares about anyone else"... the fudds.... the sportsman... "as long as I can hunt I don't care about any other gun rights"...

Click to expand...

"Sportsmen aren't the only ones that are "fudds", it would appear...

HKcarrier said:

I disagree with this law unless they amend it to allow CPL holders to carry loaded rifles.

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"CPL holders are OK. But not those other guys."

Nothing like the "fudd" calling the "fudd" a "fudd"

CV67 PAT said:

"Sportsmen aren't the only ones that are "fudds", it would appear...



"CPL holders are OK. But not those other guys."

Nothing like the "fudd" calling the "fudd" a "fudd"

Click to expand...

Oh, you're right, I"m sure that all the legislators are going to just open everything wide open and instantly everyone is going to just beable to carry anything they want any time they want anywhere they want. Sure. That sounds realistic.

ORRRR maybe it should be just as it as been with the CPL... in incremental steps. People show that it's not the wild west when law abiding citizens are armed, and more rights can be restored. Allowing CPL holders loaded carry of ALL firearms is a step in the right direction and expands current rights. I"m not saying screw everyone else so STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I'm saying once the CPL holders show it's not a bloodbath, then more work towards CON carry can be done.

Currently we can carry rifles... we are losing that right with this bill. Middle ground would allow for CPL holders to still beable to carry not just short rifles, but all rifles... which would GAIN ground for us.

Calling me a fudd really is just out of line and ignorant and like the main stream media you twist and contort anything anyone says so that you can pat yourself on the back at how brilliant you are and what an idiot everyone else is. Oh Pat, you're just soooo smart that you figured me out. You exposed me for the anti that I really am. All of my posts on this forum and others were just a clever ruse to trick you guys, but I can't get past you. You're just TOO good Pat. I've just been laying in wait to try to do what I can to get rid of the 2A!!! Now my year long plan is junked... curse you Pat!


All you do on any of the forums is name call, pot stir, and pick fights... You DO NOT ADD ANYTHING to the forums. Pat, you really need to grow up or get out. The infighting you cause and the immaturity you present really does nothing to help our cause.

HKcarrier said:

Oh, you're right, I"m sure that all the legislators are going to just open everything wide open and instantly everyone is going to just beable to carry anything they want any time they want anywhere they want. Sure. That sounds realistic.

ORRRR maybe it should be just as it as been with the CPL... in incremental steps. People show that it's not the wild west when law abiding citizens are armed, and more rights can be restored. Allowing CPL holders loaded carry of ALL firearms is a step in the right direction and expands current rights. I"m not saying screw everyone else so STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I'm saying once the CPL holders show it's not a bloodbath, then more work towards CON carry can be done.

Currently we can carry rifles... we are losing that right with this bill. Middle ground would allow for CPL holders to still beable to carry not just short rifles, but all rifles... which would GAIN ground for us.

Calling me a fudd really is just out of line and ignorant and like the main stream media you twist and contort anything anyone says so that you can pat yourself on the back at how brilliant you are and what an idiot everyone else is. Oh Pat, you're just soooo smart that you figured me out. You exposed me for the anti that I really am. All of my posts on this forum and others were just a clever ruse to trick you guys, but I can't get past you. You're just TOO good Pat. I've just been laying in wait to try to do what I can to get rid of the 2A!!! Now my year long plan is junked... curse you Pat!


All you do on any of the forums is name call, pot stir, and pick fights... You DO NOT ADD ANYTHING to the forums. Pat, you really need to grow up or get out. The infighting you cause and the immaturity you present really does nothing to help our cause.

Click to expand...

Read what you posted. You call one group of firearm owners fudds for not embracing others. Then you single out those in your class as being better than others. Not picking a fight. Just calling a fudd a fudd. You're the one that wanted to have a certain class of firearm owners to have privileges over others.

You have yourself questioned my moxie. Suggested that I should fund defense funds for an individual and a few other things. Sounds a little like the pot stirrer calling the pot stirrer.

ETA: And as far as growing up... I may be getting older. But I refuse to grow up.

Glass hoses pat. Be careful with those rocks.

stainless1911 said:

Glass hoses pat. Be careful with those rocks.

Click to expand...

Cite where I have ever claimed that any group of gunowners should have privileges above another.

CV67 PAT said:

Cite where I have ever claimed that any group of gunowners should have privileges above another.

Click to expand...

I'd like you to cite where -I- did. I'm not for anything but constitutional carry. I open carried a ton before I got my CPL and I think OC is more constitutional and way more "pure" than CC with permission pass. I think it's bull squeeze we have to get our little permission slip to carry and not only that, but PAY for it. That singles out people with less money and it's WRONG.

If I can carry a pistol, why shouldn't I beable to carry a rifle? Why shouldn't ANYONE? If people want to go on rampages, they will find a way regardless... and I see losses as the cost of freedom and besides, you can't legislate safety. IT is a mere illusion.

I also understand that you can't go from 0 to 100 instantly. The rights were taken away incrementally and will have to be restored as such. I don't have any problem with anyone having a gun rack in the back window of their chevy truck... with the exception of security issues...




As far as your moxie: Yes, you should put up or shut up because you make some pretty bold claims. You've basically said "anything you can do I can do better" and that "everyone else OCs "wrong" and you do "right" so yes, show us, oh great one... teach us.. lead by example.

In addition to your moxie, I question your motives. Why are you here? Why do you come on these forums? Is it to learn? (nope, you already know it all) It it to help others learn? (I just hurt myself laughing so hard) Is it to hang out with like minded people? (can't be... no one else is as talented, intelligent, active in 2A, as good at OC, as good a shot, as knowledgeble, or as all around good looking as you) Is it to generate conflict and have someone to constantly argue with and constantly seek to belittle and tear people down? (ding ding ding... that's about all I can see) I don't see you doing much to help out or build people up.

I don't know where I suggested you fund anything, but yes, we should help further the cause where we can and stand up for our 2A brothers and sisters.

As far as your age, fine, don't grow up... just try to act like an ADULT. I mean, you've already been BANNED from 2 forums that I know of... who knows how many more there are. Might be a clue to you.