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Thread: Men who openly carried guns at Culver's accept settlement - Madison.com

  1. #1
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Men who openly carried guns at Culver's accept settlement - Madison.com

    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...871e3ce6c.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Treleven Madison.com December 20, 2011 4:55 pm
    A group of men who drew police attention for openly carrying guns at a Far East Side restaurant last year on Tuesday accepted a $10,000 offer from the city of Madison to settle their federal civil rights lawsuit against the city and a group of police officers. [ ... ] Madison police spokesman Joel DeSpain said police still encourage citizens to call if they have concerns about someone armed with a gun, "but depending on the circumstance we might not make contact with an individual."
    Merry Christmas Happier New Year Happy Festivus for the restive.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 12-20-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Madison messed up. They know, we know it and now the entire world knows it.

    Merry Christmas "Madison Five"!
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

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  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    It is about time. It is too bad they settled for only 10k. The police messed up big time and they tried to weasel out of it. They knew OC was legal and they knew refusing to identify yourself was also legal. With that said, I'm glad the Madison 5 gentlemen finally received their settlement. I know it has been stressful and a long road.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    just the cost of doing business, heh?

  5. #5
    Regular Member thieltech's Avatar
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    great news , its just one more police department that realizes its legal to open carry and to treat law abiding OCers with the respect every good citzens deserve's ... now to get the beaver dam police chief to see it the same way , he said in a news paper article months ago that he'd have his officers put down anyone that gets called in or seen with a gun and investigate them ... kinda like chief flynn ... maybe he's changed his views ...will see
    Last edited by thieltech; 12-20-2011 at 09:42 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Weasel words....

    In its offer, the city does not admit to any wrongdoing. Attorney Catherine Rottier, representing the city, said the offer was made simply to settle the case without having to spend a lot more money.
    If this was such a slam dunk, why wasn't it pursued to the point of real expense and an admission of wrongdoing for Madison?
    Last edited by davegran; 12-20-2011 at 10:12 PM.
    Dave
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  7. #7
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    I hope that's 10 G's apiece?


    Otherwise I can't see the rather optimistic promises of unlimited Go-Go dancers and Hostess Ding Dongs at the "We fought the Law and the Law Lost" party coming to fruition.

    That makes me sad.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet
    I hope that's 10 G's apiece?
    +1 (but I don't think so).

    Quote Originally Posted by HH
    Otherwise I can't see the rather optimistic promises of unlimited Go-Go dancers and Hostess Ding Dongs at the "We fought the Law and the Law Lost" party coming to fruition.
    $10K can buy a lot of Ding Dongs.
    Don't know what the dancers cost.
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    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    There won't be much left after the cheeseburgers I'm sure.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  10. #10
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    It would be nice if the settlement amount was AFTER ATTORNEY FEES. AND COSTS!

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    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Thank You

    I would like to thank everyone who helped with our case. Everyone that donated money, posted words of encouragement, or stuck up for us in public. Some people still don't understand we did nothing wrong. I wont get into that, because most of the people on the forum understand. This might not look like the best result to some, but I think its about the best we could get considering the... "totality of the circumstances". I guess that is all I have to say at this time. Thanks again.
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

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    Regular Member thieltech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    I would like to thank everyone who helped with our case. Everyone that donated money, posted words of encouragement, or stuck up for us in public. Some people still don't understand we did nothing wrong. I wont get into that, because most of the people on the forum understand. This might not look like the best result to some, but I think its about the best we could get considering the... "totality of the circumstances". I guess that is all I have to say at this time. Thanks again.
    U could have come out a lot better. Just gotta be patient... not many people have that

  14. #14
    McX
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    the issue wasnt and isnt how much they paid. it's that they paid. a liberal stronghold fell. and from what i hear in the media; the madison 5 incident was the pivoting point on the public view of gun rights, and it helped propel us to the license system we have today- such as it is. we could have stood outside and handed out flyers till hell froze over, and never had the effect of stimulating minds, and discussions, through the massive amounts of media coverage the incident sparked. now the 5 of us are just historical footnotes, soon to be forgotten. but we will remember.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    I would like to thank Wisconsin Carry Inc for standing by me. They were on the phone while this went down and had calls into supervisors while the encounter was occurring.

    I can only speak for myself and while I am disappointed that the judgement wasn't as big as we wanted, there are several pluses:

    1. We got a judgement, we didn't settle. There is a distinct legal difference. On a settlement, all sorts of caveats can be added, such as secrecy. A judgement, in the courts eyes, is the same as if we proceeded through a jury trial and prevailed. In civil suits, that is what you win, a judgement.
    2. Our case was cited by a circuit court judge who ruled 941.23 was unconstitutional (pre Act 35).
    3. Wording was added into Act 35 stating that carrying a firearm, in and of itself, cannot be disorderly conduct.
    4. Wording was added in Act 35 providing legal sanctions to LEOs who violate our rights solely because we have a ccl. While it could of gone further, our case was the impetus for this.

    Personally, I will be buying a firearm with the proceeds and naming it Noble.

    I also want to echo Mlutz's words in thanking all the people who supported me (us) and donated to the defense fund.

  16. #16
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieltech View Post
    U could have come out a lot better. Just gotta be patient... not many people have that
    Please do not 2nd guess this. We went with the advise of counsel. We could of dragged this out further but the end would of been the same. We would of received a judgement, just like we did now. There was NO WAY it would of been 6 figures and by that time we would of spent high 5 figures in attorney fees to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thieltech View Post
    U could have come out a lot better. Just gotta be patient... not many people have that
    If I would have know YOU thought we could have "come out a lot better" I wouldn't have had the attorney that I did... I would have hired you... Thanks for telling me... Now...
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

  18. #18
    Regular Member thieltech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please do not 2nd guess this. We went with the advise of counsel. We could of dragged this out further but the end would of been the same. We would of received a judgement, just like we did now. There was NO WAY it would of been 6 figures and by that time we would of spent high 5 figures in attorney fees to get it.
    i guess i cant really say u guys didnt have patients ... i didnt realize this was over a year ago ............ i still think the best thing that came from this personally is the fact that police cant treat us OC'rs like criminals and push us around like were the bad guys ....... i do respect u guys for standing your ground that night and getting things changed ... i personally might have been bullyed into giving up my ID , just for the simple fact that cops intimiadate me .but it depends on what officer it is ................................... smiley faces for everyone !

  19. #19
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    well congrats on the judgement hopefully madisTAN will remember that rights are rights and this will not happen again

    847 culvers dinner on mlutz lol
    SCOTT

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  20. #20
    McX
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    a win like this calls for some celebratory dance music!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD-VvbGa8H4

    *from what i hear we may be asked to put our gun prints in the cement at the chinese theater in hollywood!

    or for the more serious:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LE0KpcP05I&ob=av3e

    *look 'em in the eye.................let my people go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclotheshoff View Post
    well congrats on the judgement hopefully madisTAN will remember that rights are rights and this will not happen again

    847 culvers dinner on mlutz lol
    On who? :-p
    "I don't really care for "cream cheese"..."

  22. #22
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieltech View Post
    U could have come out a lot better. Just gotta be patient... not many people have that

    How much money have you received from me, thieltech?

    Zero?

    You could have come out a lot better.

    Just gotta be patient.

  23. #23
    Regular Member oliverclotheshoff's Avatar
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    two questions i have for anyone of the mad 5

    is that settlement split between the 5 or do you all get that sum and is that after whats left from the legal fees
    SCOTT

    "When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"

    "When seconds count police are minutes away"

    "Dialing 911 only takes seconds but waiting for help may take the rest of your life"

    http://g2-elite.com/phpbb/index.php Shed Hunting

  24. #24
    Regular Member Viper's Avatar
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    Heard this story on WIBA am 1310 this morning on my way into work.

    Despain could have covered that a little better when he suggested people call 911 if they are concerned...something like not calling 911 when no crime is occurring.

    I hope the 5 gentlemen and their families have a Merry Christmas. I am glad that this has been put to rest for you all.

    We should start an annual Culver's meet there.
    Rick
    "Don't draw fire, it irritates the people around you."

  25. #25
    Herr Heckler Koch
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is this now case law in Wisconsin?
    No. Case law comes only from the appellate courts. To get there, the defendants would have to have been found guilty and appealed the decision up to a senior enough court. That may be a consideration in the city's strategerie.

    Wisconsin Act 35 and gun law in general will provide employment for lawyers for a long time. I'm working on a list of tests of civil rights protections that will be needed.
    Last edited by Herr Heckler Koch; 12-21-2011 at 09:04 AM.

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