• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Men who openly carried guns at Culver's accept settlement - Madison.com

templar223

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
46
Location
Champaign, IL
Bravo, gents!

Outstanding job putting Madison PDs chief in his place, along with the heavy-handed beat cops.

I like the quote "... but we may not come out depending on the circumstances". Actually, that's what should have happened in this case, not sending the entire shift racing to Culvers to harangue a bunch of old white guys sitting around talking and eating cheeseburgers.

I seem to remember the chief running his mouth after the arrest. He seems a lot quieter now.

Hats off to each of you.

John
 

Vandil

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Sun Prairie
I just got pulled over in Madison by MPD Officer R. Veatch for failing to re-up my winter car registration sticker. (Whoops just spaced, it I only drive the jeep 2months a year and keep it out on leased farm property in Mazzo)

I handed him my CCL with my DL when he got to 3 questions portion. I had my dashcam running hurriedly pointed at the drivers window but not much to report other than a courteous officer doing his job. He did not separate me from my sidearm or knife during the stop. I had a S+W .380 and a Kershaw Vapor III on me.

The ticket is only 13 dollars more than the registration?
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Did Officer Veatch "request" your CCL and photo ID as required by §175.60 or did you consensually volunteer your Fourth Amendment protections away?

Here's a hypothetical; if he did not request your CCL status and you did not volunteer, what might the consequences be.

Another hypothetical; stipulating the requirements of §175.60(12) and §175.60(12g), what might be the repercussions of denying issue/possession of a CCL? A cop is prevented from fishing to learn the truth of the issue, that's reserved to the court.
 

Vandil

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Sun Prairie
Did Officer Veatch "request" your CCL and photo ID as required by §175.60 or did you consensually volunteer your Fourth Amendment protections away?

Here's a hypothetical; if he did not request your CCL status and you did not volunteer, what might the consequences be.

Another hypothetical; stipulating the requirements of §175.60(12) and §175.60(12g), what might be the repercussions of denying issue/possession of a CCL? A cop is prevented from fishing to learn the truth of the issue, that's reserved to the court.

Do you know why I stopped you today.
Not really
Your registration tag is expired
That's entirely possible
I need to see your drivers license and proof of insurance,
Sure
Is there any alcohol, illegal drugs, or firearms in the vehicle?
Yes I have a firearm
*hands over all three*
*hands back CCL and Insr*
 

Mlutz

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
758
Location
, ,
Outstanding job putting Madison PDs chief in his place, along with the heavy-handed beat cops.

I like the quote "... but we may not come out depending on the circumstances". Actually, that's what should have happened in this case, not sending the entire shift racing to Culvers to harangue a bunch of old white guys sitting around talking and eating cheeseburgers.

I seem to remember the chief running his mouth after the arrest. He seems a lot quieter now.

Hats off to each of you.

John

Old? I was 23 when this happened...
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Is there any alcohol, illegal drugs, or firearms in the vehicle? Yes I have a firearm *hands over all three*
§175.60(2g)(c) says "display," not surrender, on request of the cop.

Wisc. Stats. said:
§345.23 Officer’s action after arrest without a warrant.
If a person is arrested without a warrant for the violation of a traffic regulation [§345.22 Authority to arrest without a warrant], the arresting officer shall issue a citation under s.345.11, and in addition:
(1) May release the person; or
(2) Shall release the person when he or she: ...
There is no authority in Wisconsin statutes for a fishing expedition on cause of a traffic violation. Here is another needed test case. Be not the one.
 
Last edited:

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
rcawdor57 said:
WCI has some of the cases posted on the WCI website but there are others that are not listed.
I thought one of the reasons for helping with a case is publicity.
If info isn't posted, & the WCI name/logo isn't associated with advancing 2A rights, why be involved?
Or are you saying they're not publicizing their involvement yet, but will eventually?

paul said:
Thank you. I vaguely remember reading about the case, but hadn't seen the reference to the Culver's incident.
Some of that might be useful in a couple of upcoming cases. :rolleyes:

thieltech said:
on another site someone said the Madsion Police Department paided off the lawyers, to get them to drop the case.
Well, a) would you take seriously anyone who'd talk like that?
And b) no way John could be bought off.
[Or at least, it'd be cheaper to pay each of the Mad5 $100K.]

templar223 said:
sending the entire shift racing to Culvers to harangue a bunch of old white guys sitting around talking and eating cheeseburgers.
Hey, now, only a couple of them fit the description of "old"(ish). :p
(And when they catch up with me they'll kick my donkey!)
And when the gal saw them, it was only 2 sitting outside polluting their lungs.
They'd all finished eating.
After the PD arrived the others came out.
(Hindsight being 20/20, 1 could have stayed inside & made an assortment of phone calls.)

Vandil said:
LEO: Is there any alcohol, illegal drugs, or firearms in the vehicle?
No. (As long as you didn't have any alcohol, any illegal drugs, or any illegal firearms.)

And I'm sure there's going to be a case where a citizen doesn't volunteer the info that there is a firearm in the car & somehow the LEO finds out about it, & the citizen is charged w/ something like withholding evidence or lying to a cop or obstruction or something equally idiotic. :rolleyes:

But again, is silence lying?
Hand over the driver's license, registration, proof of insurance when required & keep your mouth shut.
You're not doing anything illegal, so why does the gov't have any need to know about it?
 

thieltech

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
92
Location
Beaver Dam
But again, is silence lying?
Hand over the driver's license, registration, proof of insurance when required & keep your mouth shut.
You're not doing anything illegal, so why does the gov't have any need to know about it? ...........<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< .... good advice .... stay quite with in reason
 

Vandil

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Sun Prairie
thieltech said:
No. (As long as you didn't have any alcohol, any illegal drugs, or any illegal firearms.)

And I'm sure there's going to be a case where a citizen doesn't volunteer the info that there is a firearm in the car & somehow the LEO finds out about it, & the citizen is charged w/ something like withholding evidence or lying to a cop or obstruction or something equally idiotic. :rolleyes:

But again, is silence lying?
Hand over the driver's license, registration, proof of insurance when required & keep your mouth shut.
You're not doing anything illegal, so why does the gov't have any need to know about it?

My fed tax stamps already point a seize this guys guns first arrow at me. I suppose I am less concerned with that aspect of gov knowledge than most. I will admit to being curious to see what Madison's SOP was going to be after recent UWPD and MPD memos which probably effected my answer to that question. I'd once again credit the hard work WCI put into current legislation for the benign response. It certainly would have been different 3 months ago.


If you do maintain silence and the next command is please step out of the vehicle what is the next course of action? Lock your keys in the car? (I keep a spare door key magnet attached in a hidden spot)
 
Top