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Thread: OC in KY near a school.

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    OC in KY near a school.

    My current situation is I am 20 years old and a Kentucky resident and OC. The neighborhood I live in is in a school zone and me and my wife literally live 3 houses away from an elementary school. We frequently walk our dogs around the walking path around the grounds of the school and sometimes I jog the loop around the school, So my question is, is there a legality issue with me OCing on school grounds. I know there is the Gun Free School Act of 1994, but wasn't sure if it was specific on school grounds or inside the school. Also will a CCDW in this situation make any difference? As of right now if I go that way I won't carry but just one of those things, an extra security measure and just don't feel as "naked". Any information helps and thanks to all the OC'cers

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    I said that I was aware of the Gun Act, but never said I new the details only it, I only knew of the statue never looked into it. And as for breaking the law I haven't carried on school grounds yet because I wanted to get advice and make sure I knew everything about it before I even did it, so I have not been violating the act. You said the CCDW would exempt that from KY law, and did you mean that it still applies under federal law? Because you said Exempt in KY then said would still apply under state law. Just want to make sure I have all the facts. Thanks for the info and I will read up on the GFSZ Act, because I hae never read it until the statute that you posted. Thanks again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbale22 View Post
    I said that I was aware of the Gun Act, but never said I new the details only it, I only knew of the statue never looked into it. And as for breaking the law I haven't carried on school grounds yet because I wanted to get advice and make sure I knew everything about it before I even did it, so I have not been violating the act. You said the CCDW would exempt that from KY law, and did you mean that it still applies under federal law? Because you said Exempt in KY then said would still apply under state law. Just want to make sure I have all the facts. Thanks for the info and I will read up on the GFSZ Act, because I hae never read it until the statute that you posted. Thanks again!
    I am just going to reword what gutshot said so you will understand this.

    According to the GFSZ you cannot carry a gun within 1000ft of a school on public property, unless you are licensed by the state gov to carry. So if you have a CCDW then you can carry within 1000 ft of school PROPERTY (ie. Building + Grounds + sport field) without violating the GFSZ. If you don't then you can still carry within 1000ft on PRIVATE land not owned by the school (ie: Your property or a neighbors property, etc) but not on public land. You can NEVER carry on school grounds but on certain limited circumstances in KY.

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    Ahh, I was reading that wrong. I understand it now, CCDW exempts to be able to carry within the 1000 ft. But not on grounds. But how I'm reading it is that OC is legal within that 1000 ft. For instance in this situation on private property (I.e My property or a neighbors private property. Correct me of I'm wrong but I think that's what I'm understanding here.


    Thanks
    -Jbale22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbale22 View Post
    Ahh, I was reading that wrong. I understand it now, CCDW exempts to be able to carry within the 1000 ft. But not on grounds. But how I'm reading it is that OC is legal within that 1000 ft. For instance in this situation on private property (I.e My property or a neighbors private property. Correct me of I'm wrong but I think that's what I'm understanding here.


    Thanks
    -Jbale22
    That isn't really an easy one to answer though as long as you're on YOUR property it should be legal. The reason I said that that isn't an easy one is based upon some reports I've read about individuals who lived within the zone and had their sidearm on their own property and were still arrested on that federal law. Granted, those reports are seemingly far and few between. I'd say that you have more to fear from a P.O.'ed neighbor that falsely reports you for brandishing your sidearm. But as is always the case with these types of queries, it's best to consult an attorney and NOT rely upon the word of others. We can relay what we know and hear but in the court of law, that won't water, so to speak.
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    Reviving this old thread!

    My topic of concern right now is that me and a few friends are in college, and would like to CC after completing our CCDW process. The way I am interpreting the GFSZ Act is that is applies to Primary and Secondary Education Schools. (Elementary, Middle, High School.) Which would leave Post-Secondary (Technical/Community Colleges, and Universities out of the equation.) But that leaves KRS 527.070 up to interpretation to if "School Property" applies to Universities etc.. After some research it seems that Public Colleges, (i.e. University of Kentucky, University of Louisville, WKU, EKU etc.) are up kept by tax dollars, but are generally considered private property unless you attend the school. So it seems there needs to be some clear definition on the legality of this issue.

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    Or you could read 527.070(1), at the bottom it has this:

    The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of postsecondary or higher education.

    I interpret that to mean that collages and universities are not considered schools for this section.

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    Wow I can't believe that I looked over that, I interpreted it the same way. So having said that would CC and OC be legal by KY State Law on College Campuses? Signs carry weight I know that but I'm assuming if there is a sign posted that the only repercussions could be from the school itself not by KY State Law.

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    The last sentence in paragraph (1) of KRS 527.70, which is referenced above, states that the provisions do not apply to post secondary or higher institutions.
    The CC permit, which must be issued by KY, will keep you clear in the GFSZ and has no effect on private property or on school property. The GFSZ only applies to elementary and secondary schools.
    KRS specifically prohibit guns on school property or on any property used for school purposes. The higher level institutions may be covered elsewhere or by their own regulations or rules.

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    Signs carry no weight of law, don't quote me I haven't did independent research but am merely relying on what I have read. So if you "miss" a sign and carry anyways then you are not breaking any law. Unless, of course, there is already a law against it. Just because you "miss a sign" and walk into a high school football game doesn't mean that they can't prosecute. If you, as some random person that is not associated with the school, go walking through a university campus that does not allow firearms, there isn't much that they can do to you. Just have you escorted off the property. But if they ask you to leave and you don't then it is trespassing.

    It is super easy to miss things. You're searching for one specific thing, you don't want to read the whole KRS website. So you must skim the pages looking for certain words that blend in pretty good with lines of other text.

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    Let's see if I can clarify any of this.

    If you do not have a Ky cdwl, you can't carry within 1000 ft of any k-12 school property.

    If you do get your Ky cdwl, then federal law will not apply to you in Ky, however, you still must follow state law, which says no carry in school buildings, buses, etc., or on school grounds, unless your firearm remains in your vehicle, and if you leave the vehicle it must get locked. This means you can carry within 1000 feet of the k-12 school property, but you can't cross the property line.

    The k-12 school law in Ky does not apply to say a McDonalds, if a k-12 school function is
    going on. It only applies to property owned and operated by the school district. The lousiville zoo tried banning firearms because k-12 schools used their facility. The zoo is not owned by the school district, they saw the light, and are no longer prohibiting carry.

    This law has nothing to do with post-secondary institutions. These institutions however was given the authority to prohibit deadly weapons on their property in the 96 concealed carry law, (unconstitutional I might add). This means it is not against the law to carry there, but if your a student they can prohibit you from ever entering the building again,
    and ruin your education. Hopefully this unconstitutional crap will be gone soon.

    "no firearm" signs do not hold force of law in Ky, and they can be ignored. If someone who owns or manages the property asks you to leave, then you must leave or face arrest for trespassing. If a place is off limits and is stated off limits in 237.110, it is against the law to carry there regardless if it's posted or not. This would be places like "k-12 schools, and court of justice courthouses.". Don't forget, most of the places listed in 237.110 are off limits while carrying concealed, but not while carrying openly.

    I strongly suggest reading krs chapters 237, 527, and 503. Check past attorney general opinions, and supreme court cases, the most important being "Holland vs. Commonwealth"
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 02-06-2012 at 06:33 PM.

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    Thanks KYGlockster, the last part about post-secondary education helped clear up a lot. I had a pretty decent understanding of the k-12 GFSZ situation. However I didn't know that they tried that at the Louisville Zoo. But to avoid any trouble with the university I won't be carrying on campus. Another quick question i don't now of you would know or not, but with this situation, if HB 280 was to pass when voted on would the absence of KRS 527.020 take away their authority to prohibit firearms?

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    Nope, they would have to amend krs 237.115.

    Hey gutshot, or anyone else who might know, I was picking my daughter up from school yesterday, and there was an animal control officer openly carrying a Ruger talking to one of his friends. Being as he certainly is not a commissioned officer, or judge, etc., how can he legally carry? Was he not committing a felony by removing his firearm from his vehicle? I've read everywhere, and I see nothin that gives a county judge/exec. Authority to allow his county animal control officer to do this?

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    He was meeting a friend on the clock in a county vehicle to socialize. I have pictures that verify he was armed and on school property. My view of this, is if I don't have the ability to carry without being arrested on felony charges, why should a dog catcher?

    I will contact judge/exec. And inform everyone of what he says. It's hard to get away though when I have the evidence a crime was committed. I say it will be a interesting conversation.

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    Regarding carry on college grounds, here is what I came up with.

    My research has led me to believe there is nothing illegal about carrying on university property in KY. All colleges that I am aware of prohibit carry, which is no different than any private business banning carry (you're only breaking the law if they ask you to leave and you refuse). However, the university will likely expel you, which will probably make it difficult to get into any other school in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if they make you repay any and all scholarships or aid etc.

    I graduate in May My right to life and defense of my life is important to me. However I want to get a good job to provide for my family, and my education is my means of increasing the likelihood that that will be possible. So each time I enter school property, the gun stays home. Its not worth the risk to me.

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    Thank you for the advice. I have waited patiently today for a call from mr. Bud stevens but that call never came. I find this odd, because he always has returned my calls within 24 hours. He has became indignant during past conversations because I checked his statements and always asked him to cite his sources that he said where written in law. He knows I want definitive answers and I would say he is trying to find something to authorize his ACO's actions that day. If he has not returned my call by noon Monday, I will try reaching him once more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me if he said that he had looked at it and decided that it was OK for the Animal Control Officer to do this, but he doesn't get to do that. The General Assembly gets to decide what is and isn't a crime. If you don't get a satisfactory response from the Co. Judge/Exec. tell him you'll consider contacting the Commonwealth Attorney and filing a complaint for the commission of a felony. The Judge might be quilty of conspiring to cover up a felony. That should spice up the conversation. A call to the KSP might also be in order. They might like to see your photograph.
    Finally got in touch with Bud Stevens, and he claimed that all animal control officers have been deputized???? They have nothing to do with the sheriff's department, so is this legal? We give animal control officers full powers to arrest???? Anyone have any input on this issue?

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    Any way we can make an example of him. You do still have the pictures?
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