Man wearing baggy pants, "wife beater" undershirt, OCing wth holser too big for gun.

What caught my attention was not that the gentleman was wearing a particular kind of shirt, but that he was described as a black man. Like, he's got to be up to no good - if he were white, it'd be ok; but in an auto parts store as a black guy, now that's suspicious behavior!

And I know this is going to come as a shocker, but a lot of people who frequent auto parts stores do so because they do their own auto repair work. And many of them do their own auto repair work because they can't afford to pay someone else to do it for them, and their own time is all they've got. Such people may well be unable to buy the proper Galco holster for the handgun they've got, because they can't afford to spring the eighty bucks for a new holster.

Here's another news item: the behavior the OP regarded as "lurking around" in the store may have simply been a gesture of humility or worse, a reflection of the gentleman's feeling that he's not good enough to stride up to the counter and demand service. Obviously, there were well-dressed, important white folks there in the store who deserved to be served first, simply because they're well-dressed white folks. I hope he was really just trying to find the correct oil filter, and not "lurking" at all. But I've known people well who behaved the way I described out of the feeling that they were not "good enough". And those white folks - especially the well-dressed, important, white folks; you never can tell just how they'll react to a person who's minding his own business and trying to find the correct oil filter without demanding help from the staff.

Kind of reminds me of being in the Fairfax GDC traffic court and hearing the Fx Co PD officers standing around and joking about guys they'd picked up along Richmond Highway (Rt 1, also known as Jeff Davis Hghwy) South of Alexandria for "DWB" (driving while black).

I apologize if my occasional sarcasm has offended anyone, but this one touched a nerve.

peter nap said:

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how do i make this pic my avatar? LOL -puke-

Right click on it, copy image, paste it in an editor and change the size, add it as an avatar.

I'd make one for "Do you have a CHP or are you just happy to see me"....but we'd both get stood in the cyber corner:uhoh:

peter nap said:

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Since you have that image I am afraid to know what else is on your computer. Make it a wallpaper and if the feds ever take your machine that will scare them off.

Now as far as the person carrying it is hard to tell what they were doing from the description. If they were fidgeting with it I would be nervous but if they are just standing there minding their own business so what. Maybe they had one of those supposed one size fits all holsters that did not fit properly and didn't know they could get a better one or couldn't afford one?

PackinXD40 said:

So this baffled me today when I went into Pep Boys in hampton, to get a few car items. I noticed a black man kinda just lurking around the store, and like always I am very observant when I carry so he just caught my attention from the get go, kinda a shady looking fella in my opinion, nothing new i guess for the Hampton Roads area. Anyways, he had on a pretty big wife beater, baggy black jeans that hung down to his ass, and what threw me completely off guard was the holsterd firearm he was open carrying. Now i know appearance is everything when carrying a loaded weapon and this just blew my mind that someone would go out like this carrying. I mean the holster was way to big for the gun. I figured either the gun was going to fall out of the holster or if he would of let go of his pants the weight of the gun would have just pull his pants down the rest of the way. This just shocked me so much i ended up just leaving the store and went to auto zone and personally this makes me feel like this is the reason people look down on open carrying. Sorry for venting but this just kinda pissed me off and thought i would share my anger a little bit.


Anyways, opened carried to Pep Boys :/, Auto zone then to target in hampton.

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I'm sorry; I was under the impression that one of the goals of this forum was to normalize the open carrying of handguns in everyday life. In everyday life, people are going to dress a) in a way that is comfortable and b) in a way that is functional to what they happen to be doing. As user correctly pointed out, the man you saw could very well have been dressed in a way that was functional to acquiring and installing auto parts. While I tend to at least wear a collared, button-down shirt if I know in the morning that I will be running errands all day while OC'ing, if it's late in the afternoon and I need to go out for something, I won't think twice about strapping on my 1911 while sporting dirty jeans and a white tshirt. My God-given, natural, inherent and unalienable right to personal self-defense does not hinge on the net worth of my outfit for the day, and I am breaking no laws. Now, I don't practice nor appreciate the "urban" look, but hey, it's simply not for me to judge.

This reminds me of a time this past summer when I was heading out on an evening coyote-hunting expedition. I was wearing an ACU desert cap, a brown military tee, and worn jeans bloused into high hunting boots. I was wearing a revolver, crossdraw, and an 8 inch knife on my left side (as is my habit when I know I will be toting a long gun or spending a lot of time in a vehicle). I stopped at a gas station on my way out of town where I like to fuel up and purchase some cold beverages. I remember walking in and heading straight to the cooler, passing a line of people at the cashier. One of them was a thirty-something woman who I could hear asking the cashier, "Did you see that," as I walked past. I paid her no mind, got what I needed, and walked back up to the front of the store. As I was returning, I heard the cashier (who knew me from previous occasions) say, "I'm sure he's OK." After further protestation from the woman, he said, "Ma'am, I'm REALLY SURE he's OK." She stormed out in a huff. Moral of the story is that while my mode of dress and carry may not have been the most ambassadorial, it was safe, legal, and understood by at least some thinking people.

On another note, there simply are not enough minorities who openly carry and dress in ways you do not approve of to create widespread, negative feelings toward OC. If open carry is ever banned because of negative perceptions, it will be due to white guys like me, bottom line. Again, though, the goal is to normalize carry in "everyday life," so we'll just have to take our chances and rest easy in the knowledge of the righteousness of our cause.

I was thinking about a long post in reply to you MIB.....There's really no need though. You said it all and it's relevant to every part of this country.....I'll just add:

+1

user said:

What caught my attention was not that the gentleman was wearing a particular kind of shirt, but that he was described as a black man. Like, he's got to be up to no good - if he were white, it'd be ok; but in an auto parts store as a black guy, now that's suspicious behavior!

And I know this is going to come as a shocker, but a lot of people who frequent auto parts stores do so because they do their own auto repair work. And many of them do their own auto repair work because they can't afford to pay someone else to do it for them, and their own time is all they've got. Such people may well be unable to buy the proper Galco holster for the handgun they've got, because they can't afford to spring the eighty bucks for a new holster.

Here's another news item: the behavior the OP regarded as "lurking around" in the store may have simply been a gesture of humility or worse, a reflection of the gentleman's feeling that he's not good enough to stride up to the counter and demand service. Obviously, there were well-dressed, important white folks there in the store who deserved to be served first, simply because they're well-dressed white folks. I hope he was really just trying to find the correct oil filter, and not "lurking" at all. But I've known people well who behaved the way I described out of the feeling that they were not "good enough". And those white folks - especially the well-dressed, important, white folks; you never can tell just how they'll react to a person who's minding his own business and trying to find the correct oil filter without demanding help from the staff.

Kind of reminds me of being in the Fairfax GDC traffic court and hearing the Fx Co PD officers standing around and joking about guys they'd picked up along Richmond Highway (Rt 1, also known as Jeff Davis Hghwy) South of Alexandria for "DWB" (driving while black).

I apologize if my occasional sarcasm has offended anyone, but this one touched a nerve.

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Dan, I am constantly amazed (and saddened) by the need of some people to interject ethnicity into a discussion where that factor is totally irrelevant.

I once had a friend tell me about an incident that happened on his job -- he was a bulldozer operator -- and he was telling me "how dumb the Mexican was who was trying to operate a backhoe, getting it all jammed up trying to excavate a boulder too large for it to lift." I listened patiently till he finished, than told him that I was glad he mentioned that the backhoe driver was a Mexican, else the story wouldn't have made sense otherwise. He just gave me a blank stare, not understanding the sarcasm. I asked him if it would have made any difference if the backhoe operator had been Swedish or American Indian ... and he said "no." I asked him why he felt it necessary to identify the other guy as Mexican, and he simply didn't have an answer ... it's just the way he had been acculturated to converse.

Having grown up in east Baltimore, I have long experienced that anytime someone is telling a story, if the subject of the story is of a different ethnicity it is 'necessary' to mention that fact, whether or not it has any bearing on the content.

In this thread, where the main topic is how the person was dressed, calling out the ethnicity was completely irrelevant, yet the old habits kick in and the story-teller feels compelled to add it in as if it made a difference or was somehow enlightening. Racism may not be as prevalent as it once was, but, like acne, the scars (i.e., the habits) remain.

unaware

I was unaware that I signed a "dress code" understanding when I got my OC permit>>>>
Oh wait.... there isn't any OC permit so that must mean there isn't and dress code either! TOUCHE'

what is this thread about? OC'ing properly OR political correctness of a story

to make my contribuiton to this thread relavant and positive, i make this post with no intended sarcasm as i feel that the sarcasm limit has been reached for this thread.

i see where packinXD40 was trying to recount the details of his experince, but what gets me is that you guys are harping on him for stating the fact that the subject of his post was described as dark-skinned and packinXD40 is being called-out on the carpet for racism.

it reads like PackingXD40 painted maybe 'too acurate' of a picture and could have just left out some brush strokes, while still getting the point across. but i didn't come to this realization until reading some of the replys. what i had fore-front in my mind was; why did'nt he approach the (black) guy and try to correct the issue. maybe offer a few words of respectful advice if not a proper holster.

in either case, the opportunity for this is long over. so the 'take-away' is that maybe the next time that those of us reading this thrad see someone, anyone of any skin color carrying in a manner that would give a bad initial impression, we will stand up and do the right thing and try to correct the issue.

PackinXD40, it'd be great if you could make it to one of the tidewater area's OC dinners. i haven't had the pleasure, but they sure do sound like a good time.

and i have no intentions of changing my avatar.

user said:

What caught my attention was not that the gentleman was wearing a particular kind of shirt, but that he was described as a black man. Like, he's got to be up to no good - if he were white, it'd be ok; but in an auto parts store as a black guy, now that's suspicious behavior!

And I know this is going to come as a shocker, but a lot of people who frequent auto parts stores do so because they do their own auto repair work. And many of them do their own auto repair work because they can't afford to pay someone else to do it for them, and their own time is all they've got. Such people may well be unable to buy the proper Galco holster for the handgun they've got, because they can't afford to spring the eighty bucks for a new holster.

Here's another news item: the behavior the OP regarded as "lurking around" in the store may have simply been a gesture of humility or worse, a reflection of the gentleman's feeling that he's not good enough to stride up to the counter and demand service. Obviously, there were well-dressed, important white folks there in the store who deserved to be served first, simply because they're well-dressed white folks. I hope he was really just trying to find the correct oil filter, and not "lurking" at all. But I've known people well who behaved the way I described out of the feeling that they were not "good enough". And those white folks - especially the well-dressed, important, white folks; you never can tell just how they'll react to a person who's minding his own business and trying to find the correct oil filter without demanding help from the staff.

Kind of reminds me of being in the Fairfax GDC traffic court and hearing the Fx Co PD officers standing around and joking about guys they'd picked up along Richmond Highway (Rt 1, also known as Jeff Davis Hghwy) South of Alexandria for "DWB" (driving while black).

I apologize if my occasional sarcasm has offended anyone, but this one touched a nerve.

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As a black man, I see where you're coming from, take out black guy and is it really offensive?

Also, black people do the same thing, if someone is of another ethnic background, we'll identify them by that.

It isn't racism, it isn't prejudice, it's just an observation.

As if you're never heard a black man say "this white dude just came in the store...." Or "who was that spanish guy you were hanging with?l or "i met this new asian girl"

If it isn't said in a derogatory fashion, mentioning race wouldn't be a problem.

Now if he said "some black guy in a wife beater with big greasy lips that look like he was just eating fried chicken and hands big enough to palm a watermelon" then I'd be offended.

Especially since I DESPISE watermelon and avoid fried chicken whenever possible lol

But seriously, if it was a white guy he described, would you be so offended?

I've seen some racist comments on gun forums, heard one guy say he saw some "coons" breaking into his car and hit one of them.

My point?


Pick your battles and make sure you're battling the right one...




*swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

Hustle Man---Gotcha, I agree. Don't understand why this thread was really created, but does show a prejudice toward people that are different than us.

the_hustleman said:

As a black man, I see where you're coming from, take out black guy and is it really offensive?

Also, black people do the same thing, if someone is of another ethnic background, we'll identify them by that.

It isn't racism, it isn't prejudice, it's just an observation.

As if you're never heard a black man say "this white dude just came in the store...." Or "who was that spanish guy you were hanging with?l or "i met this new asian girl"

If it isn't said in a derogatory fashion, mentioning race wouldn't be a problem.

Now if he said "some black guy in a wife beater with big greasy lips that look like he was just eating fried chicken and hands big enough to palm a watermelon" then I'd be offended.

Especially since I DESPISE watermelon and avoid fried chicken whenever possible lol

But seriously, if it was a white guy he described, would you be so offended?

I've seen some racist comments on gun forums, heard one guy say he saw some "coons" breaking into his car and hit one of them.

My point?


Pick your battles and make sure you're battling the right one...




*swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

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Exactly this.

the_hustleman said:

It isn't racism, it isn't prejudice, it's just an observation.

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With all due respect, you appear to be an exception to the rule, at least in the public theater.

wylde007 said:

With all due respect, you appear to be an exception to the rule, at least in the public theater.

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And what rule is that?

*swyped from the evo so excuse any typos*

The one where someone isn't screaming "WAAAAACIST" because the ethnicity of a person who happens to not be white is pointed out.

To the original topic...

Generally I frequent auto parts stores when I am in the middle of working on my car.

Generally I do not work on my car while wearing nice clothes.

Generally, I am not concerned with my apearance when I walk into an auto parts store.

Yeah, well, seems to me that any description of the guy in terms of race was immaterial and irrelevant. So, I would have felt the same if the OP had said, "white", "mexican", "Thai", or "Fiji Islander". What's the point of that bit of information, if not to "color" the story. It's not like I'm supposed to be able to pick the guy out of a line-up. How come there's no statement about his height or weight? It was not merely descriptive. No question in my mind that it was not intended to be an indication of racial prejudice, but I think it does reflect a prejudicial opinion.

If I don't have to be in court, I don't dress up, myself, let alone how I look when I go into auto parts stores (I don't trust other people to work on my cars).

I have a theory I call the "termite theory". In East Africa, there are enormous colonies of termites that build mounds, like, six feet high. There are lots of them. The termites in each colony function like a single organism in some respects, and share a protein unique to that colony, sort of like a randomized genetic key or password. As they go through the tunnels, they're constantly touching antennae, as if to say, "One of us? One of us?". And normally, the response is, "Yes, one of us! one of us!". But occasionally a confused termite will enter the wrong colony, in which case the response is, "Oops, not one of us." To which the other termites immediate reaction is, "Kill." They tear the other termite to bits and eat him immediately. Humans are a lot like that. We have an instinctive drive to eliminate competition for resources in the environment. Hence the joy I feel in shooting coyotes. It's so satisfying. Those coyotes want to eat the same chickens that I want to eat. Not one of us! Kill!

I grew up in Alexandria which was, at that time, a small, segregated, Southern town. But people in my family other than me (my mother was Scotch-Irish) had either brown or green eyes. There was always some anxiety over whether one might get into trouble for drinking from the white folks' water fountain, but since we're "white", we certainly couldn't drink from the "colored" folks' water fountain. So I was not permitted to drink out of public water fountains at all as a kid. Hence my sensitivity to the issue (regardless of what Gerald Poindexter may say about me).

Seems to me that unless the descriptive word advances the story somehow, it ought to be left out entirely.

I'm 54 and have heard of wife beater T-shirts since I was a teenager (1970s) and I'm sure it goes back to the late 1940's to early 50's.

I can only offer my memory as a cite that it was in use well before COPS.

Seems to me that unless the descriptive word advances the story somehow, it ought to be left out entirely.

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That quote makes all the sense in the world but for some reason isn't applied very often. It is not just on this site but pick up any newspaper and you will find the same thing. Just my observation and nothing scientific but I find those that proclaim they are the most liberal and non-racists are the worst offenders. A while back at work we were standing around discussing some event that happened in the area and I have no idea of what it was exactly other than one person made the point that whoever it was we were discussing was black. The rest of us looked at each other sort of surprised. We hadn't even considered the race of the person and I remember that I said that I had assumed that he was white because of the name and no one else other than that one person who thought we were discussing it because of race and wanted to correct us had even given it a thought.

I agree totally with user's quote but unfortunately real life doesn't work like that.