Kicked Out of Rest Stop for OC

A few weeks ago I was driving from Pittsburgh to Morgantown WV for a job interview at Mylan Pharmaceuticals.

I was traveling south on I-79 and stopped at the rest stop right across the state line.

I was in a real hurry and just wanted to use the restroom and also check my dress shirt and make sure my tie looked good.
I was OC'ing with no jacket or coat since it was warm. (I was planning on leaving my weapon in my car during the interview)

As I exited the building a family from Illinois was exiting there mini van and asked me for restaurant recommendations in the area.
I told them a few places they could go in Morgantown.
Both the father and mother noticed my holstered pistol but it didnt bother them and they said nothing but "thank you" for the directions on restaurants.

As I began walking to my vehicle a maintenance man for the rest stop stopped me and said "You cant do that here!" I know he meant OC'ing but I replied "I cant give directions?"

He said "NO! I mean you cant carry that gun on this property".

I told him that was false and if it were true there would be signs posted in or around the building.

He said "there are signs posted" I asked where he then said "well, this is kind of a new facility ( I knew its been there for years now) and I haven't put them up yet."
I told him politely, that until there are signs posted, I am legally allowed to both open carry and conceal carry (with permit) and I will continue to do so".

He then said "yeah, but some people might get the wrong idea if they see you carrying a gun around like that".

At this point I noticed I was probably going to be late if I argued with him any longer.

I then told him that what I was doing is completely legal and if he feels the need to, he can call a police officer and check with them.

He then told me "no, just please leave. I dont want any of the travelers getting upset seeing man with a gun here".

I looked for a name tag but didnt see one and asked for his name and a contact number for his supervisor.
He did have an embroidered path indicating that he was a WV highway maintenance or something of that nature.
He then just began to walk away and get on his cell phone.

Needless to say I was completely angered by this fool.
If I hadnt had a job interview to go on, I would have waited around and let this moron make a fool of himself if the police came.

I will be in that area again and I will OC. I will also record it (if legal?) and let you guys know what happens.

Well he didn't REALLY kick you out, he just tried. Good job standing your ground. Do you plan to pursue it in any way?

There are NO statutory prohibitions against carry of ANY mode in Rest Areas in WV. State preemption would also seem to prohibit individual State Rest Area managers or supervisors from posting "no firearms" signs legally.

Carry On!

thebigsd said:

Do you plan to pursue it in any way?

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I am going to return to that rest stop on the same day and time with the hopes that he's working again and OC.
I will print out some of the WV OC laws and "inform" the goof about WV OC rights.
I really like WV, but from my experience it seems like people with the smallest bit of authority around there take it to the utmost extreme.

I remember talking to a few volunteer firemen from Morgantown and Smithfield PA. They acted like they were on the SWAT team or something.

I guess since they are from a small town having a little bit of authority means the world to them.

Anyhow, does anyone know off the top of their heads or have a link to WV laws pertaining to recording video and/or audio of LE and the general public? If the guy decides to call the police I want to make sure I get it on tape.
If this goof still gives me static about OC, I will contact his supervisor as well.

His job is to mop the floor and clean the urinals. Not give legal advice.

West Virginia is a "one party" state with respect to recording conversations, which means that at least one person participating in the conversation (in this case you) must be aware the recording is being made. http://www.a1-hiddencamera.com/pages/Audio-Recording-Laws.html


A quick Google search shows a recent incident in Huntington where Mr. Joseph Pniewski was arrested not for videotaping, but for obstruction, when he was openly recording cops conducting an investigation - http://www.pixiq.com/article/west-virginia-man-arrested-after-video-recording-cops.

The rest stop worker may have assumed that because he can't carry a gun at a rest stop (as an employee his employer - the state - can prohibit it while he's on the clock) then no one else can either.

Finally, IANA lawyer, this is not legal advice, and if you're going to poke a wasp nest with a short stick then have a good defense attorney on speed dial.

Sig229 said:

As I began walking to my vehicle a maintenance man for the rest stop stopped me

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How in the world does a Maintenance man stop you? Why not just keep walking and totally ignore him? Just say, excuse me, there's a stall full of pee you need to be cleaning RIGHT NOW, so get on it.

Sig229 said:

I remember talking to a few volunteer firemen from Morgantown and Smithfield PA. They acted like they were on the SWAT team or something.

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It seems nowadays anyone who works for The State and has a badge or uniform is to be considered a Warrior and/or Hero.

Badger Johnson said:

How in the world does a Maintenance man stop you? Why not just keep walking and totally ignore him? Just say, excuse me, there's a stall full of pee you need to be cleaning RIGHT NOW, so get on it.

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He didnt physically stop me for christ sakes.
He said "excuse me sir" and I stopped walking to hear what he had to say.

Sig229 said:

He didnt physically stop me for christ sakes.
He said "excuse me sir" and I stopped walking to hear what he had to say.

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I don't talk to minions at rest stops, unless they're wearing a badge. But, you got yourself all riled up because you didn't do the same. I'd advise you not to go back there looking for more pointless confrontation...unless that's just what you do.

Badger Johnson said:

I don't talk to minions at rest stops, unless they're wearing a badge.

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Well, I dont turn tail and run from people.
Your advice earlier was to "just keep walking away".
Sorry, I try not to turn my back on anyone that's approaching me.

As far as going back there. I personally take OC seriously as a right. And those of us who OC have a right to not be harassed by some moron state employee.

If I can educate him on the law, he may not harass you or other members if you ever decide to drive through this area.

Part of being an OC'er is making a good impression to those who are uneducated about OC.

PM sent to OP. WVCDL is aware of this issue and has both legislative and legal strategies that it will be pursuing. I would caution everyone that W.Va. Code § 61-7-14 applies to both private and public property and I urge everyone to not jeopardize WVCDL's efforts.

Sig229 said:

...it seems like people with the smallest bit of authority ... take it to the utmost extreme.
... having a little bit of authority means the world to them.

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FTFY
That's been my finding too, & the less real ah-thor-ih-tay someone has, the more they try to exercise their power over others.
People who are powerful, physically or otherwise, generally don't push people around.

His job is to mop the floor and clean the urinals. Not give legal advice.

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Might look up the statutes about practicing law w/o a license or impersonating an officer in case he gets more obnoxious.
Who knows, maybe he was undercover to bust drug runners. LOL

In this area I think the best way to learn to defuse, deescalate, but be firm, yet polite is to avoid answering any questions, pose questions back to the questioner, and passively resist being lectured to.

In the case of a glorified restroom attendant, I'd have ignored him while not turning my back, sent him on a mission to get his supervisor, asked him his authority, told him I'm leaving now and will get back to him.

REMEMBER this is a discussion forum. I might seem hypercritical but I FULLY REALIZE I was not there and you have to handle things as you think best. BUT, by posting what happened, you invite comment. Take it or leave it.

$.02

Badger Johnson said:

In this area I think the best way to learn to defuse, deescalate, but be firm, yet polite is to avoid answering any questions, pose questions back to the questioner, and passively resist being lectured to.

In the case of a glorified restroom attendant, I'd have ignored him while not turning my back, sent him on a mission to get his supervisor, asked him his authority, told him I'm leaving now and will get back to him.

REMEMBER this is a discussion forum. I might seem hypercritical but I FULLY REALIZE I was not there and you have to handle things as you think best. BUT, by posting what happened, you invite comment. Take it or leave it.

$.02

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No problem, and I welcome comments from everyone.

Also, I will be taking the WVCDL's attorneys advice and not OC there until the state of WV is educated on the law.

JimMullinsWVCDL said:

PM sent to OP. WVCDL is aware of this issue and has both legislative and legal strategies that it will be pursuing. I would caution everyone that W.Va. Code § 61-7-14 applies to both private and public property and I urge everyone to not jeopardize WVCDL's efforts.

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Jim, with all due respect I do not believe that §61-7-14 applies to the incorrect opinions of power-grabbing control freak janitorial staff at WV public Rest Areas. This statute applies to private property, and the people who own, lease, or are legal caretakers of such property, NOT to janitorial staff...

It applies to the "owner, lessee or other person charged with the care, custody and control of real property". State Rest areas are not really classified as "real property" in the sense of "private property" like a home or a business, because they are STATE property, and therefore, by definition are PUBLIC PROPERTY. The only people who may establish rules or regulations on state-owned property in WV are the Legislature (as duly-appointed representatives of the People).

I simply don't see how a janitor (or a desk clerk, or the guy who stocks the soda machines or anyone else for that matter) at a State Rest area has ANY authority under the Law to establish or enforce a law that would be illegal to establish in the first place (State Preemption, §8-12-5a) without legislative enactment...http://www.legis.state.wv.us/WVCODE...year=2007&sessiontype=RS&btype=bill&input=715
I regularly travel through WV, and lived there for over 25 years. I have in the past OCed in WV rest areas, and in many other places, and will continue to do so, as long as they are not posted--regardless of the silly, misinformed, and power-grabbing attitudes of some uniform-wearing flunky who tried to use their "position" to bully me out of exercising my Rights. I'll even call the police for them if they want--I have a nephew who is a WV State Trooper stationed in Wheeling who would gladly explain the law to such people...

MKEgal said:

Might look up the statutes about practicing law w/o a license or impersonating an officer in case he gets more obnoxious. Who knows, maybe he was undercover to bust drug runners. LOL

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Practicing law without a license in WV is a misdemeanor, and it punishable with fines up to $1000 under §30-2-4.

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/Code.cfm?chap=30&art=2



Impersonating a law enforcement officer in WV is also a misdemeanor, and it punishable with fines up to $1000 under §61-1-9.

http://law.justia.com/codes/west-virginia/2009/61/61-1-9.html



I would suggest that ANYONE who travels through WV commit these two Statute numbers to memory so that they can drop them into conversations like the one the OP wrote about, to take the wind out of the sails of these over-the-top power-tripping petty tyrants like this Rest Area janitor...

Dreamer said:

I have in the past OCed in WV rest areas, and in many other places, and will continue to do so, as long as they are not posted--...

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It turns out that the particular rest stop in question has recently posted no firearm signs. Yes, this violates WV law but apparently (from what has been PM'ed to me) LE doesn't care and there are cases which people are currently in trouble for it.

Funny thing about it though, the I-79 welcome center rest stop on the PA/WV line is the only rest stop in WV to post said signs.

Last week when I came back from a trip from Maryland I stopped at the WV welcome center on the MD/WV line and didnt see any no firearms signs.

So something needs to be done about this.

Sig229 said:

I remember talking to a few volunteer firemen from Morgantown and Smithfield PA. They acted like they were on the SWAT team or something.

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That is TOOOOOO FUNNY ! ! ! ! I used to live in Huntingdon , right beside Smithfield , and there is definitely a problem with badge-heaviness ( is that even a word ?!?!?! ) .
On a related note , I can smell court case over this . Good luck if you pursue it.

"Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample your pearls underfoot and turn to gore you."

It isn't your job to correct the morons of the world, and can only cause trouble if you try. If the dude's full of "stuff", simply recognize that fact and ignore him. Not your problem to fix his deficiencies, and if you try to do so, you could wind up with some kind of criminal charge against you when he calls the cops with bogus complaints.

It would make sense to complain to the highway department that you were accosted by the hostile maintenance guy while peaceably using the rest-stop. (My kids use the phrase, "welcome center", now, to refer to any toilet facilities.)

user said:

"Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample your pearls underfoot and turn to gore you."

It isn't your job to correct the morons of the world, and can only cause trouble if you try. If the dude's full of "stuff", simply recognize that fact and ignore him. Not your problem to fix his deficiencies, and if you try to do so, you could wind up with some kind of criminal charge against you when he calls the cops with bogus complaints.

It would make sense to complain to the highway department that you were accosted by the hostile maintenance guy while peaceably using the rest-stop. (My kids use the phrase, "welcome center", now, to refer to any toilet facilities.)

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This is why I advocate 'verbal judo' some of which is just being like water (or glass), transparent, and saying nothing, redirecting questions (Say, where'd you get those spiffy shoes - are they untied?), then creating space and distance and getting in your conveyance and driving off. I would not advocate calling in a complaint because you then make yourself a target, provoke this guy to jazz up on some other person. Sometimes it's best to blow it off.

Once someone engages you, you lose 360 SA, you get caught up in their net (trolling), and they get a piece of you. I've even used the 'No hablo ingles, senor' tactic and then just wander off. 'Hey, did you see that guy peeing in your maintenance cart?' might work.

Getting a guy 'in trouble' rarely works to change them for the better, ime.

$.02