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Thread: All gone quiet in Socal...

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    All gone quiet in Socal...

    It would seem that the UOC of handguns has become a lost cause since our 25 person turnout for LGOC @ PB. I have seen Firemarks attempt to rally the troops at the last minute with a handgun only carry ( please open this to the LGOCs to as they are on the same side )on 12/30 in downtown san diego and our escondido branch organizing a LGOC in January 2012. Since portantinos AB144 has been voted in and due to become law on 1/1/12 . Personally I alternately carry my remington 870 with sling or my various handguns daily without any interference by local PD during the christmas shopping period. The lawsuit against Ca seems a little to late to affect the law on UOC of handguns. Once the lawsuit forces that citizens will be able to carry loaded open or concealed carry Ca will be a safer place (well we can all dream ) In the meantime please go about your daily business open carrying whatever weapons you all feel like carrying before we are legislated against. Merry Christmas to you all and stay safe and carry on
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Handgun only is just a request. As free citizens I can not make anyone nor would I try to make anyone do or not do something. If you show up carrying a long gun, you will not be turned away or scorned, the request was for last handgun carry to accentuate the fact it will be illegal very soon.
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

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  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    No problem with that

    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    Handgun only is just a request. As free citizens I can not make anyone nor would I try to make anyone do or not do something. If you show up carrying a long gun, you will not be turned away or scorned, the request was for last handgun carry to accentuate the fact it will be illegal very soon.
    It just seemed you were attempting to exclude LGOC's from the event after all "they" also want the same goal. Allegedly there is breaking news forthcoming about CCW .........can't wait for that blockbuster
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    This State is so disapointing

    At every turn our rights are actively being stripped away from us. I have never attended an open carry event and now it seems like I never will. The second amendment is so plainly spoken, "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed!" I don't know how else to classify AB 144 other than an infringement on my inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (armed). I just bought my first shotgun so I guess I will show support open carrying that, but as others have mentioned, it concerns me more than a holstered handgun which would never cause muzzle control issues.

    Here is hoping we wake up and make our voices heard.

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    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Arrow

    It may be quiet, but we're not all gone.

    Some of us are working on other fronts.
    Last edited by demnogis; 01-02-2012 at 03:37 AM.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Good to hear.....

    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    It may be quiet, but we're not all gone.

    Some of us are working on other fronts.
    Keep us all informed as now the LGUOC movement is all we have to protect ourselves and our families.

    Thanks for your efforts
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    Keep us all informed as now the LGUOC movement is all we have to protect ourselves and our families.
    That's really a stretch by any metric. http://calgunsfoundation.org/resourc...is-a-faqs.html

    -Brandon
    Brandon Combs
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  8. #8
    Regular Member demnogis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
    That's really a stretch by any metric. http://calgunsfoundation.org/resourc...is-a-faqs.html

    -Brandon
    You're right. They didn't BAN UOC of handguns, they just narrowed the scope down to 116+ very specific exemptions that us common rabble will not fit into. Unless, we're all going to become licensed security guards. Effectively it is a ban while technically it is not.
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    Regular Member wildhawker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demnogis View Post
    You're right. They didn't BAN UOC of handguns, they just narrowed the scope down to 116+ very specific exemptions that us common rabble will not fit into. Unless, we're all going to become licensed security guards. Effectively it is a ban while technically it is not.
    I'm not sure what you're reading, but those who want to carry handguns could drive a bus through AB 144.
    Brandon Combs
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    Member, CRPA Board of Directors

    Join me in making regular monthly tax-deductible donations to the Calguns Foundation and help us advance gun rights in California today!

    Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all comments are my own and not the approved position of any organization, nor should they be considered legal advice.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Ok Brandon once the lawsuits are won.....

    Quote Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
    That's really a stretch by any metric. http://calgunsfoundation.org/resourc...is-a-faqs.html

    -Brandon
    and everyone who is able gets a LTC or CCW permit or the allowance of LOC or UOC in cities and towns that allow due to not being incorporated then LGUOC is the only way to go. My handguns are away in the safe but my AR15 and shotgun are with me daily until this governmental screw up is beaten down to submission and California is more broke due to the to-ing and fro-ing with different lawsuits myself and others will have no alternative but to go LGUOC until further notice, I for one appreciate everyones efforts to get this matter dealt with soonest and get our right to bear arms back in its rightful place.

    So when are we going to go ahead and "drive a bus" through the exemptions with an organized "Handgun UOC meetup" with the news agencies around to film us "driving a bus through the exemptions" while the local PD do not arrest us on a technicality that hasn't been proven...yet
    Last edited by EXTREMEOPS1; 01-02-2012 at 08:29 PM.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    and everyone who is able gets a LTC or CCW permit or the allowance of LOC or UOC in cities and towns that allow due to not being incorporated then LGUOC is the only way to go. My handguns are away in the safe but my AR15 and shotgun are with me daily until this governmental screw up is beaten down to submission and California is more broke due to the to-ing and fro-ing with different lawsuits myself and others will have no alternative but to go LGUOC until further notice, I for one appreciate everyones efforts to get this matter dealt with soonest and get our right to bear arms back in its rightful place.

    So when are we going to go ahead and "drive a bus" through the exemptions with an organized "Handgun UOC meetup" with the news agencies around to film us "driving a bus through the exemptions" while the local PD do not arrest us on a technicality that hasn't been proven...yet
    The status of any litigation over LTC is independent of the CGF analysis of AB144. The organization of a UOC meetup is reliant somewhat of the metaphorical first person to eat an oyster before everyone will be imitating slurping one off a half shell. There's no doubt that it is coming, the question of where remains.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Responsible citizens of california sacrificial lamb

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    The status of any litigation over LTC is independent of the CGF analysis of AB144. The organization of a UOC meetup is reliant somewhat of the metaphorical first person to eat an oyster before everyone will be imitating slurping one off a half shell. There's no doubt that it is coming, the question of where remains.
    maybe there's someone ready to test these exemptions in the RC of Ca great analogy C3 but having read the exemptions it would seem that you have to be a non profit organization retired LEO in an incorporated city to qualify ....or maybe a private non profit militia group that benefits the local neighborhood (UOC neighborhood watch) sarcasm off.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildhawker View Post
    That's really a stretch by any metric. http://calgunsfoundation.org/resourc...is-a-faqs.html

    -Brandon
    Number 51 thru Number 55 could be used if you are running any video recording equipment. Spy sunglasses, ballpoint pen recorder or someone using a vidcam of you carrying.
    Are there any lawyers ready to step in and defend someone arrested for this? Mr Davis?
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    maybe there's someone ready to test these exemptions in the RC of Ca great analogy C3 but having read the exemptions it would seem that you have to be a non profit organization retired LEO in an incorporated city to qualify ....or maybe a private non profit militia group that benefits the local neighborhood (UOC neighborhood watch) sarcasm off.
    This is not exclusive to non-profits and retired LEO. There are exemptions for licensed hunters, television and video productions, entertainment events, and others. I have pointed out that if you have a YouTube Channel and create videodocumentaries that you are exempted. This is something that many open carry advocates already do- which virtually changes nothing for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    Are there any lawyers ready to step in and defend someone arrested for this? Mr Davis?
    Im sure that attornies are more apt to provide their services to paying clients. This should be one of those occasions that we should feel compelled to consolidate our resourses to protect each other.
    Last edited by ConditionThree; 01-03-2012 at 12:57 PM.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I have pointed out that if you have a YouTube Channel and create videodocumentaries that you are exempted. This is something that many open carry advocates already do- which virtually changes nothing for them.

    Im sure that attornies are more apt to provide their services to paying clients. This should be one of those occasions that we should feel compelled to consolidate our resourses to protect each other.
    If I were a sneaky coniving DA I would see what other laws a UOC advocate might be infracting by performing his video documentary. Something along the lines of "wheres your permit for filming in the city?, where is your liability insurance as a videographer?" Where are your consent forms for everyone you are filming in public?"

    Uoc while holding a camera and using a camera might bring out the administrative code nazis's. I believe the Calguns Wiki exemption #100 is the best bet for exemption, Non profit 501c3 practicing or performing ceremonies. Its extremely vague and very easy to prove membership status of a non profit.
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    If I were a sneaky coniving DA I would see what other laws a UOC advocate might be infracting by performing his video documentary. Something along the lines of "wheres your permit for filming in the city?, where is your liability insurance as a videographer?" Where are your consent forms for everyone you are filming in public?"

    Uoc while holding a camera and using a camera might bring out the administrative code nazis's. I believe the Calguns Wiki exemption #100 is the best bet for exemption, Non profit 501c3 practicing or performing ceremonies. Its extremely vague and very easy to prove membership status of a non profit.
    Search "stringers"
    Do you need a permit to film anywhere?
    Is there a law requiring insurance?
    With all the video surveilance going on in this country, I doubt you need anyones permission to record in public.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    face it, handgun open carry is dead in california. if it wasnt then people would be out doing it and posting their videos.

    no videos = no open carry.

    Two Weeks!

    Our civil liberties will be reinstated in just two weeks!

    I keep hearing this from people who support democrat politicians with their money and their votes. In return they get CCWs.

    Two more weeks!

    I have been duped again.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    As a photographer I know first hand that almost every city in So Cal requires a permit to film or photograph. Some cities codes dont make a distinction between commerical or private. They also require HUGE insurance policies.
    In my experience if you keep it low key and dont have much equipment most cities dont mind. LA City, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills and Hollywood are the worst.
    So, why aren't the police arresting all the hundreds (maybe thousands) of open carriers who video the cops.
    Every store owner who installs a surveilence system covering their parking lot has a photographers license?
    I suggest that once you leave your house, you have no expectation of privacy.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Regular Member Lawful Aim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
    Do you need a permit to film anywhere?
    Is there a law requiring insurance?
    With all the video surveilance going on in this country, I doubt you need anyones permission to record in public.
    For the purposes of this topic-
    No, a permit is NOT required to record video.
    No, insurance is NOT required either.
    Correct, there is no expectation of privacy in public.
    If anyone tells you different it is just smoke and mirrors.
    The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it. -Albert Einstein
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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawful Aim View Post
    For the purposes of this topic-
    No, a permit is NOT required to record video.
    No, insurance is NOT required either.
    Correct, there is no expectation of privacy in public.
    If anyone tells you different it is just smoke and mirrors.
    That's not entirely true Lawful Aim

    Some public properties require advance notice for filming if it is for a commercial purpose. And...they can require a permit and insurance. For example, any citizen can videotape on the grounds of Sutter's Fort. But if you go there as a commercial event, and by commercial I mean even a non-profit, they can require permit, or advance notice and even insurance.
    Out on the street, the same can apply. Do it as a citizen alone, and you are usually ok. Do it as a group under a organization, and you may be required to post insurance and get a permit.
    I'd also caution people about recording in public with sound without notifying people that they are being recorded. Eavesdropping laws still apply. Photo and other visual imaging is different, but recording conversations can be illegal without the notification that you are doing so.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    That's not entirely true Lawful Aim

    Some public properties require advance notice for filming if it is for a commercial purpose. And...they can require a permit and insurance. For example, any citizen can videotape on the grounds of Sutter's Fort. But if you go there as a commercial event, and by commercial I mean even a non-profit, they can require permit, or advance notice and even insurance.
    Out on the street, the same can apply. Do it as a citizen alone, and you are usually ok. Do it as a group under a organization, and you may be required to post insurance and get a permit.
    I'd also caution people about recording in public with sound without notifying people that they are being recorded. Eavesdropping laws still apply. Photo and other visual imaging is different, but recording conversations can be illegal without the notification that you are doing so.
    Citation?

    Nevermind, let me get that for you.


    632 (a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of
    all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any
    electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records
    the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried
    on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a
    telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be
    punished by a fine ...
    ...(c) The term "confidential communication" includes any
    communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate
    that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the
    parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public
    gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or
    administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other
    circumstance
    in which the parties to the communication may reasonably
    expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded
    .
    So, if you are running around with a video (or audio) recorder in a public venue, can it be reasonably argued that those around you who see you video recording might expect that their communication may be overheard and recorded? The answer is very clearly a yes. So what this warning really should be about is those circumstances where recording is being done surrepititiously.

    In other words, openly carry your recording equipment.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Citation?

    Nevermind, let me get that for you.




    So, if you are running around with a video (or audio) recorder in a public venue, can it be reasonably argued that those around you who see you video recording might expect that their communication may be overheard and recorded? The answer is very clearly a yes. So what this warning really should be about is those circumstances where recording is being done surrepititiously.

    In other words, openly carry your recording equipment.
    Yes, and many have talked about using recording devices that are not easily seen. I've been in situations where my camera was pointed away, but still recording, and at least two people objected on that basis, that they thought they were not being recorded. My point is still valid. Exercise caution when recording conversations

  23. #23
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    and yet I see videos on tv programs where certain people who have not given consent have their faces obscured especially children. I would say since the DA's and LE have it in for us they will try and exploit any and all means to stop us by finding any obscure law that has even a remote possibility to stick... and once again they just have to charge you. It will cost you to show up in court and argue or hire a lawyer to argue for you....

    They couldnt get the occupyers to disperse, public opinion was on the protestors side, but then they found little BS laws like pitching a tent in a public space or sanitary "issues". anything that had just enough teeth to get a foothold and then they strong armed them out of there.

    The problem we face is we dont have strong public opinion on our side, we had a glaring huge hole in 12031E but now that has been shorn up and I guarantee you some FNG junior wanna be DA is being tasked with ideas to come up with to shut down open carry by whatever law can be used as leverage against us.

    The devil is in the details.
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    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    or maybe a private non profit militia group that benefits the local neighborhood

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    This is not exclusive to non-profits and retired LEO. There are exemptions for licensed hunters, television and video productions, entertainment events, and others. I have pointed out that if you have a YouTube Channel and create videodocumentaries that you are exempted. This is something that many open carry advocates already do- which virtually changes nothing for them.



    I'm sure that attornies are more apt to provide their services to paying clients. This should be one of those occasions that we should feel compelled to consolidate our resourses to protect each other.
    Maybe local UOCers should form a private non profit militia group that benefits the local neighborhood (UOC neighborhood watch) maybe we can all set up our own neighborhood watch within our own city limits oops mines an incorporated area and the discharge of firearms is illegal within the city limits. (How does that work?) Ooh I'll just carry my shotgun or AR while its still legal
    Last edited by EXTREMEOPS1; 01-11-2012 at 01:31 AM.
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

  25. #25
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    or maybe a private non profit militia group that benefits the local neighborhood (UOC neighborhood watch) maybe we can all st up our own neighborhood watch within our own city limits oops mines incorporated and the discharge of firearms is illegal (How does that work?)[
    Uhm, wut?
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
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