Being Disarmed / Hypothetical

Hardbuck90 said:

This is purely for interpretation at this point but is my belief that it could / should be used in the future.

Say you have been Terry stopped for OC'ing and an officer want's to disarm you for "officer safety" now we all know the stop is illegal to begin with ...

Thoughts?

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You don't know the stop is illegal. If you match the description of the guy that just robbed the 7-11, the stop is legal and justified. Additionally, you don't know what the officer was told. For example, if someone told 911 that you pulled the gun in a threatening manner, the stop would be legal and justified. The cop may not tell you those things, and isn't required to do so. If he believes the stop is legal for reasons such as that, and you actively resist his attempt to disarm you, expect a world of hurt to come your way- with nothing you can do after the fact. No lawyer is going to take your case to sue the department if the stop is reasonable under such conditions.

Sometimes you fight it on the street, sometimes the battle is better fought later.

On the street, you always ask, "Am I being detained?" If yes, then ask, "For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?" If no, "Have a nice day officer." and walk away. No discussion, no justification of why you carry, walk away.

rbaconator said:

I put my hands around the back of my neck to show I had no intention to draw.

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WHY? what? in the world did you put you hands behind your head for? Submission? That just sounds you were doing just like a dog rolling over on it's back to show submission. If you had used the weapon, then maybe there might be a reason for the officer to remove the weapon, but you LET him completely control the situation when you submitted to his control before anything was even said when you put your hands behind your head. Were you expecting to be arrested or something?

Having a pistol in a holster is no more dangerous than having a wallet in your pocket. Once it comes out of the holster, it becomes dangerous to everyone near. You should have acted as if it was not there...that would have been much better.

From what I read of your story so far the problem appreas to be a dog problem, not a gun problem...no reason to surrender your arm, and on your (your dad's) private property too. Not no, but he$% no.

Mainsail said:

You don't know the stop is illegal. If you match the description of the guy that just robbed the 7-11, the stop is legal and justified. Additionally, you don't know what the officer was told. For example, if someone told 911 that you pulled the gun in a threatening manner, the stop would be legal and justified. The cop may not tell you those things.

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I understand this point, the scenario that I imagined was more of a MWAG stop / "making sure you're legal." I think if you matched the description of robbery suspect it would hardly be a civil stop where the officer greeted you and let you know he was going to disarm you...

Hardbuck90 said:

I think if you matched the description of robbery suspect it would hardly be a civil stop where the officer greeted you and let you know he was going to disarm you...

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More likely a greeting with a firearm point at you.

Hardbuck90 said:

I understand this point, the scenario that I imagined was more of a MWAG stop / "making sure you're legal." I think if you matched the description of robbery suspect it would hardly be a civil stop where the officer greeted you and let you know he was going to disarm you...

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I think G20-IWB24/7 had something like that happen to him. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, driving through an area after a robbery. It was pretty civil from what I remember, they mostly just wasted his time.

It doesn't matter what scenario you imagine because you have no way of knowing why they're stopping you when they stop you. Also, you don't have to match the exact description, anything even close will do given the unreliability of witnesses. Domestic violence suspects are another example; those happen all over all the time.

Yes the variables are limitless, but this is concerning after the police have made clear that they are investigating a legal activity and want to disarm you without cause

rbaconator said:

I was on my property (rental). The dog died in the driveway shared by the 3 homes. We all pay rent to the property owner (my dad). My phone was on the charger when I went outside so I didn't record but my girlfriend saw LEO remove my pistol and my cool neighbor saw the LEO stop at the end of the driveway where he put my pistol in the mailbox instead of the real estate sign.

I'm trying to stay on the gun end of this situation for the sake of the thread but here is some on the dog end. If a 50 pound pitbull and a 80 pound American bull dog were mauling a year old chihuahua mix there would be blood spread all over the driveway. Not in a nice neat little pool of blood in the middle of the driveway. I got pictures of the blood in the driveway showing size and some for showing distances to residences. That not the half of it but I don't wanna get in trouble for getting off subject.

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OK, cool two witnesses is pretty darn good. Have them deposed (should you go that route) and notarized and then present the case (with your lawyer) and see what he would be willing to do.

Sometimes it's write a letter on his letterhead and say stuff in a way that's scary (lol) legally, and sometimes he's willing to do more. It will cost you about $500 or if you want more $300/hour.

Best bet is the $500 for one action (call/letter). We got two letters for $500 in a little hassle we had.

Good luck and again good on you for getting witnesses and photos, but not so good on the 'hands behind the neck' thing, heh.

I walk/stand/etc. with my forearm draped over the butt of my gun... It's a common defensive practice.... I wonder what they'll have to say about that?

'He was touching his gun'

:uhoh:

I have been disarmed for "Officer safety" a few times. I told Mr. Doll the deputy chief of Bellingham PD that it won't happen again. They need a reason, he agreed. Also by a Sheriff deputy but that was to go in the back when filing a complaint (not against the Sheriff's department). I have also been disarmed other times, if there is RAS, I have no problem with it, even when they cook up the "PC". Like Mainsail says sometimes you take the battle else where.

The last time I was disarmed by a deputy we actually talking about how well that little hook in a retention works because for safety reason, he was removing the whole holster with gun inside. And he was glad I chose that method for OC although it made his job a little tougher at that moment.:lol: