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Thread: what would you do "lost"

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    what would you do "lost"

    last night at 3am i was at mcdonalds when i notice a lady thrown out a moveing pickup truck. as i sat and watch, as she gets up and runs around the parking lot while this truck tries to hit her."the truck had to guys in it". one guy gets out and grabs the lady by her hair and drags her back to the truck as shes kicking and screaming.

    at that point i did not know what to do. my edc is my xdm45 with two extra 13 rd mags. but because i was just getting off of work i only had my "bug" lpc 380. with me.
    I did call the police but by the time they got there the truck had left.


    my questions is

    1) should i have tried to stop them from putting her back in the car.
    A) i did not have my xdm with me only my lpc 6+1. what if they pulled a gun
    2) should i have pulled my gun in defence of the lady who was being hurt and beat on,.
    3) should i have pull my car behind them to block them in intill the police showed up. "because i leave by the airport response time is great"


    i ended up just calling the cops who came very fast, i feel really bad becuase if it was my mom,wife,sister ext id what some one to help. i could not sleep all night wondering what if i would of help...


    just what if....

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    last night at 3am i was at mcdonalds when i notice a lady thrown out a moveing pickup truck. as i sat and watch, as she gets up and runs around the parking lot while this truck tries to hit her."the truck had to guys in it". one guy gets out and grabs the lady by her hair and drags her back to the truck as shes kicking and screaming.

    at that point i did not know what to do. my edc is my xdm45 with two extra 13 rd mags. but because i was just getting off of work i only had my "bug" lpc 380. with me.
    I did call the police but by the time they got there the truck had left.


    my questions is

    1) should i have tried to stop them from putting her back in the car.
    A) i did not have my xdm with me only my lpc 6+1. what if they pulled a gun
    2) should i have pulled my gun in defence of the lady who was being hurt and beat on,.
    3) should i have pull my car behind them to block them in intill the police showed up. "because i leave by the airport response time is great"


    i ended up just calling the cops who came very fast, i feel really bad becuase if it was my mom,wife,sister ext id what some one to help. i could not sleep all night wondering what if i would of help...


    just what if....
    Based on your description of your reaction on what was going on, I think your level of confidence in such matters is in question, I am not slamming you but Id say you probably did the right thing FOR YOU, since today you are not sure if you did the right thing or not.

    If you had to think about it, you were not ready to step in which may end up getting yourself or the woman killed.

    Sometimes Non-Action is the correction Action, but you have to know that the decision was the right one, and you don’t seem to know that at this time.

    You cannot be second-guessing your decision in these matters at the time they are happening, you MUST assess the situation and act immediately based on what you seen and heard. If you cannot, and it was obvious you could not, then you were not ready to act. You would have been more of a danger to yourself and to her. Your non-action was the only choice you could make.

    Seems you are also feeling a bit guilty for how you handled it. This is something you will need to address within. But understand, unless you all of a sudden became a super hero, you will probably be suffering some guilt. Don’t let it chew you up. Address the issue and learn from it, its how we grow!


    My only question is did the truck leave with the woman? If so, you did not follow with 911 on the line?


    Added: 15 to 20 years ago in downtown Detroit, i was in a McDonalds I think if I recall it was the RenCen. A woman came in and jumped the counter and clobbered a worker with a wine bottle knocking the out! The first woman jumped back over the counter and ran in-between my wife and myself. I just stood there.............I had not expected such a thing to happen and not one person ran after the attacker............Today I hope my heightened awareness would allow me to intervene if another such attack happened. I still think about that day and feel guilty that I did nothing, but at that time in my life, I was not in any position to protect myself let alone anyone else.
    Last edited by Onnie; 12-24-2011 at 05:20 PM. Reason: added last McPart
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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    one guy gets out and grabs the lady by her hair and drags her back to the truck as shes kicking and screaming.
    Yea...I think I would have stepped in after calling the police. ****** situation to be in to have to make that call. Then again, I don't know how far away you were, were you in your car, in the building? Those would all come into play. I don't carry to defend other people, but this sounds pretty bad - possible kidnapping scenario.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onnie View Post
    Based on your description of your reaction on what was going on, I think your level of confidence in such matters is in question, I am not slamming you but Id say you probably did the right thing FOR YOU, since today you are not sure if you did the right thing or not.

    If you had to think about it, you were not ready to step in which may end up getting yourself or the woman killed.

    Sometimes Non-Action is the correction Action, but you have to know that the decision was the right one, and you don’t seem to know that at this time.

    You cannot be second-guessing your decision in these matters at the time they are happening, you MUST assess the situation and act immediately based on what you seen and heard. If you cannot, and it was obvious you could not, then you were not ready to act. You would have been more of a danger to yourself and to her. Your non-action was the only choice you could make.

    Seems you are also feeling a bit guilty for how you handled it. This is something you will need to address within. But understand, unless you all of a sudden became a super hero, you will probably be suffering some guilt. Don’t let it chew you up. Address the issue and learn from it, its how we grow!


    My only question is did the truck leave with the woman? If so, you did not follow with 911 on the line?


    Added: 15 to 20 years ago in downtown Detroit, i was in a McDonalds I think if I recall it was the RenCen. A woman came in and jumped the counter and clobbered a worker with a wine bottle knocking the out! The first woman jumped back over the counter and ran in-between my wife and myself. I just stood there.............I had not expected such a thing to happen and not one person ran after the attacker............Today I hope my heightened awareness would allow me to intervene if another such attack happened. I still think about that day and feel guilty that I did nothing, but at that time in my life, I was not in any position to protect myself let alone anyone else.


    my thought was a six shot, vs two men with guns id would not stand a chance. it was a bad mix, it was really late my cell phone was dieing..

    as i said if i was carrying my 45 i would of steped in with out a doubt. i just felt like if i pointed my gun and a shootout occured would i have enough rounds to protect my self and her.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    my thought was a six shot, vs two men with guns id would not stand a chance. it was a bad mix, it was really late my cell phone was dieing..

    as i said if i was carrying my 45 i would of steped in with out a doubt. i just felt like if i pointed my gun and a shootout occured would i have enough rounds to protect my self and her.

    know what was right at that time. Don't beat yourself up...
    Last edited by Schlitz; 12-24-2011 at 05:29 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Yea...I think I would have stepped in after calling the police. ****** situation to be in to have to make that call. Then again, I don't know how far away you were, were you in your car, in the building? Those would all come into play. I don't carry to defend other people, but this sounds pretty bad - possible kidnapping scenario.
    it was a kidnapping i guessing, things that went threw my mind was

    1) what if this is a bf and gf that are drunk and just fighting
    2) what if this is really a kid napping
    3) what if they have guns , once again i only had my lil 380 i carry as a bug.

    what if i have to shoot this guy, how would she react if they were just haveing a bad fight..

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    it was a kidnapping i guessing, things that went threw my mind was

    1) what if this is a bf and gf that are drunk and just fighting
    2) what if this is really a kid napping
    3) what if they have guns , once again i only had my lil 380 i carry as a bug.

    what if i have to shoot this guy, how would she react if they were just haveing a bad fight..
    You done the best you could have done with what you had.....

    move on from there my friend tomorrow is another day!
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    I would have rammed the truck with my vehicle no matter what I was carrying. I'm assuming you were in your vehicle. My vehicle can change direction and my bullets can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    I would have rammed the truck with my vehicle no matter what I was carrying. I'm assuming you were in your vehicle. My vehicle can change direction and my bullets can't.
    yea.. thats just asking for it.. i do not think thats a good ideal at all

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    yea.. thats just asking for it.. i do not think thats a good ideal at all
    Asking for what? Two thugs are about to kill a woman and I have to act fast. If I shoot at what I gather to be an erratically moving target I may kill the victim. I can control my vehicle enough to change direction and push it AWAY from the victim. At that point the perps freak out and stand down or we go into firefight mode with the victim removed from the equation.

    I've never had a problem standing in and don't recall EVER watching an unequal fight from the outside. I DESPISE bullies and welcome an opportunity to defend the underdog. It's the American way.

    ETA: Option 3 sounds good if it would actually work.
    Last edited by sharkey; 12-24-2011 at 06:15 PM.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    As I've said many times, a handgun does not SOLVE everything. I totally agree with the poster above who said he'd have used his car, instead of a firing solution to stop the event IF it was truly life and death. Insurance is for such times. Of course using your car is not 100% foolproof.

    For a lesser reaction, get the license number and try to photo or ID the driver and the car. USE your cameras, folks, not your guns. Part of being a good witness, especially here, where the assault was not directed at yourself (allowing time to react and gather information).
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkey View Post
    Asking for what? Two thugs are about to kill a woman and I have to act fast. If I shoot at what I gather to be an erratically moving target I may kill the victim. I can control my vehicle enough to change direction and push it AWAY from the victim. At that point the perps freak out and stand down or we go into firefight mode with the victim removed from the equation.

    I've never had a problem standing in and don't recall EVER watching an unequal fight from the outside. I DESPISE bullies and welcome an opportunity to defend the underdog. It's the American way.

    ETA: Option 3 sounds good if it would actually work.


    see once again it could be a husban and wife fighting, they driver never got out of the pick up..
    it could be a bf and gf drunk out of there mind, u just dont know. i dont think raming a park truck fixes any thing.. say the police arrives and she does not wanna press charges. but guess who does the: the guy who trunk i ran into. i just dont think u should use a car as a weapon any more then a gun there both last resort..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    As I've said many times, a handgun does not SOLVE everything. I totally agree with the poster above who said he'd have used his car, instead of a firing solution to stop the event IF it was truly life and death. Insurance is for such times. Of course using your car is not 100% foolproof.

    For a lesser reaction, get the license number and try to photo or ID the driver and the car. USE your cameras, folks, not your guns. Part of being a good witness, especially here, where the assault was not directed at yourself (allowing time to react and gather information).
    phone died. but i know the people at mc donalds called as well..

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    1. Get a phone charger for your car.
    2. I think you should have followed them and maybe tried to get the attention of a police car if you see one.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

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    Two words-

    Car Charger

    Don't sweat it. Her body will turn up eventually.

    Oh, and dump the peashooter.
    Last edited by Shadow Bear; 12-24-2011 at 06:58 PM.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Two words-

    Car Charger

    Don't sweat it. Her body will turn up eventually.

    Oh, and dump the peashooter.
    its my bug i only carry it when i go to work because im not susposed to carry at all. and if some one is reading this from work.. i dont carry at work nor would i ever own a gun lol..

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    see once again it could be a husban and wife fighting, they driver never got out of the pick up..
    it could be a bf and gf drunk out of there mind, u just dont know. i dont think raming a park truck fixes any thing.. say the police arrives and she does not wanna press charges. but guess who does the: the guy who trunk i ran into. i just dont think u should use a car as a weapon any more then a gun there both last resort..

    I don't really care if they were BF/GF spouse or whatever. Hopefully she wouldn't make the same mistake again.

    You asked what I would do and you have my answer. I didn't fault you for your lack of action.

    Ramming the truck prevents them from getting her into it. I wasn't there. My answers are from what I imagine the scenario was. What if's suck because there are unknown variables. I can only extrapolate so much. :P

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    Follow with 911 on the line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Follow with 911 on the line.
    911 discourages people to follow.
    There was an incident I got into where my ex stole my car, but since she had prior access to it I couldn't make a report. I came across my "stolen car" and someone whom I've never met was driving it. I chased them and got on the phone with 911. They advised me to immediately stop following them and to go meet with an officer. The officers I met with told me if I would have chased them around I could have been arrested for stalking. What a crock huh.

    I ended up having to steal the car back myself, without police assistance. That's what they advised me to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G30Mike View Post
    911 discourages people to follow.
    There was an incident I got into where my ex stole my car, but since she had prior access to it I couldn't make a report. I came across my "stolen car" and someone whom I've never met was driving it. I chased them and got on the phone with 911. They advised me to immediately stop following them and to go meet with an officer. The officers I met with told me if I would have chased them around I could have been arrested for stalking. What a crock huh.

    I ended up having to steal the car back myself, without police assistance. That's what they advised me to do.

    thats crazy.. real crazy..

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    Not actually being involved in the situation, it is difficult to say what i would or would not do if i witnessed the same exact scenario. Here are my thoughts...

    I am selfish, I do not carry a gun to protect others. There are limited exceptions, but I carry a gun to protect me and mine.

    Getting involved in a domestic dispute between lovers can get real messy real quick. Especially if their version of events is different from yours, which is likely to happen. Imagine the two (or three) of them telling the detective that they were just hanging out, when some lunatic shows up brandishing a firearm. Now it's the word of two or three against one.

    If a girl is actually being beaten, or sexually assaulted, or kidnapped, especially by an apparent stranger, then things are totally different and I think it may be an appropriate time to intervene.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    my thought was a six shot, vs two men with guns id would not stand a chance. it was a bad mix, it was really late my cell phone was dieing..

    as i said if i was carrying my 45 i would of steped in with out a doubt. i just felt like if i pointed my gun and a shootout occured would i have enough rounds to protect my self and her.
    NEVER get involved in a family disturbance. Or what if it was a kidnapping? Just get pictures or be a good witness. Get tag numbers and descriptions. Going to the aid of another is NOT always the best thing to do.
    I will say that I admire and thank you for wanting to help. There are not many left in the world that would do that, but getting on 911 and following would have been best.

    Oh, and if you are afraid of drawing, or getting killed or hurt, then don't carry until you go get some good training. My 2 pet peeves are people who spend loads on guns, but never spend a dime on training or a good safe. Good training will cost less than your XD and it will build your confidence to assess and handle these types of situations.

    All in All you did good, so as others have said just learn and forget about beating yourself up and second guessing what you thought you should have done.
    Last edited by kpearce; 12-24-2011 at 10:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpearce View Post
    NEVER get involved in a family disturbance. Or what if it was a kidnapping? Just get pictures or be a good witness. Get tag numbers and descriptions. Going to the aid of another is NOT always the best thing to do.
    I will say that I admire and thank you for wanting to help. There are not many left in the world that would do that, but getting on 911 and following would have been best.

    Oh, and if you are afraid of drawing, or getting killed or hurt, then don't carry until you go get some good training. My 2 pet peeves are people who spend loads on guns, but never spend a dime on training or a good safe. Good training will cost less than your XD and it will build your confidence to assess and handle these types of situations.

    All in All you did good, so as others have said just learn and forget about beating yourself up and second guessing what you thought you should have done.


    its not about the training i train often. all i could think of was these two may be drunk, high lord knows. what if the guy in the truck has a weapon what . its 3am not a lot of light so i could not watch there hand movements as good as i would of liked.

    if i could of redone this i would step in and help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rvd4now View Post
    its my bug i only carry it when i go to work because im not susposed to carry at all. and if some one is reading this from work.. i dont carry at work nor would i ever own a gun lol..
    Hopefully you learned a lesson from this situation. If you carry a gun that is not meant to be useful as nothing more then a bug, you yourself could be in trouble at a later date. If you leave work and get jumped yourself by 3 people, then what?

    I wasn't there so I wouldn't Monday morning quarter back the situation, I am just commenting on the uselessness of having a gun that doesn't help in a situation when it might be needed.

    If you really want to, the XD 45 can be concealed you just need to be creative is all. Worst case scenero get a pancake holster and leave the real gun in your car at work, then slide on the pancake holster as you leave.

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    I'll probably catch some crap for this, but I would have stopped that truck one way or another.

    You cant second guess or take the time to decide if its a family matter or not.

    Remember the old standard in self defense training, if the assailant tries to take you to a different location, that is the time to fight!
    Last edited by stainless1911; 12-24-2011 at 11:36 PM.

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