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Thread: What will Open Carry be like in CA 2012?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    What will Open Carry be like in CA 2012?

    I spoke to a patrol officer a 3 days before 2012 and asked if he had recieved any training regarding "Open Carry".

    He replied that he had read a memo about 3 years ago now, doesnt remember to much about it, and had actually been involved once in contacting some open carriers.

    I asked, "nothing new regarding the changes?" "no recent memo or training?"

    He said nope havent heard anything about it.

    So there you have it 3 days before the law goes into effect, an average beat patrol officer that open carriers will most likely encounter, has virtually no clue about what to do or how to handle OC'rs, and what little info he does remember is from 3 years ago, if he can remember.

    I asked do you know about the 116 exemptions?

    He did not have a clue.

    I would suggest to many open carriers out there to stand by, I forsee working UOC of handguns within the exemptions and throwing right back in the faces of the dem's, liberals and police chief associations the lame law that does absolutley nothing. And will draw more UOC handgunners to the cause.
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    I think the heavy lifting has been done, though the first to employ the exemptions has a rather delicate task being the guinea pig for all the others.

    Otherwise, I believe it will be business as usual for handgun open carry. No need for long guns yet.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemark View Post
    I asked do you know about the 116 exemptions?

    He did not have a clue.
    For those of us not in California (and for those in California who haven't followed along closely), can you give us a summary?

    I follow California out of a general interest, but I haven't kept up with the details of the new law. I thought UOC was simply going away on 1/1/12. No?

  4. #4
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    For those of us not in California (and for those in California who haven't followed along closely), can you give us a summary?

    I follow California out of a general interest, but I haven't kept up with the details of the new law. I thought UOC was simply going away on 1/1/12. No?
    No. Not in the way the legislature intended.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


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  5. #5
    Regular Member Firemark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    For those of us not in California (and for those in California who haven't followed along closely), can you give us a summary?

    I follow California out of a general interest, but I haven't kept up with the details of the new law. I thought UOC was simply going away on 1/1/12. No?
    http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/res...is-a-faqs.html
    New to OPEN CARRY? Click here first

    "Gun owners in California in 2011 are like black people in the south in 1955. If you don't understand that then your concepts of fighting for gun rights is just tilting at windmills." Gene Hoffman.

    "Why do you need to carry a gun?" ...Because it not a Bill of Needs, its a Bill of Rights!!

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    Wow... starts with "cluster", rhymes with "duck".

    Should survive the first vagueness challenge, for sure.

  7. #7
    Regular Member hgreen's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good opportunity for a large group open carry philanthropic event with an associated non-profit.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran EXTREMEOPS1's Avatar
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    Maybe we will see....

    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I think the heavy lifting has been done, though the first to employ the exemptions has a rather delicate task being the guinea pig for all the others.

    Otherwise, I believe it will be business as usual for handgun open carry. No need for long guns yet.
    members of " responsible citizens of california " will step in and become the guinea pig for a test case on handgun UOC come January 1st 2012 although the guiding force of adnan has now resigned for personal and political reason. Maybe sam will step up again has he has done many times in the past . The LGOC movement will not go away as the handgun UOC has been outlawed by AB144 which is subject to a lawsuit that California will inevitably pay dearly for in the near future. Be safe and carry on
    "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

    - General George S. Patton, Jr.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXTREMEOPS1 View Post
    members of " responsible citizens of california " will step in and become the guinea pig for a test case on handgun UOC come January 1st 2012 although the guiding force of adnan has now resigned for personal and political reason. Maybe sam will step up again has he has done many times in the past . The LGOC movement will not go away as the handgun UOC has been outlawed by AB144 which is subject to a lawsuit that California will inevitably pay dearly for in the near future. Be safe and carry on
    It's apparent that you didn't bother to read the analysis provided in the link or the post regarding exploiting the exemptions to nullify AB144/PC26350. It is difficult to discern whether this is willful ignorance or both of these new resources were not conspicuous enough for you see. The exemptions are numerous enough and broad enough that handgun open carry can continue without promoting or encouraging long gun open carry.

    Again- AB144 fails to ban UOC of handguns, when one takes advantage of the various 'loopholes' written by Anthony Portantino into his law. We should indulge him.

    If UOC of handguns is still possible, the only conceivable purpose to carry a long arm is to instigate a response. We have no control over whether that response will come from the police, the court of public opinion, the legislature or some combination of them all. By continuing to UOC handguns it is possible to influence the message somewhat, by demonstrating to the police and the legislature that AB144 was a waste of time and continues to waste resourses, and still limit the exposure of long guns to new and onerous prohibitions.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    My guess is that OCers will be stopped, their firearms will be confiscated, and the cops will "do you a favor" by not arresting you, and the anti's will cheer them on because "dangerous handguns" are being removed from the streets. Don't put it past CommieFornia for one second, to ignore law and just do as they please.

    If you really want to open carry, open carry your personal possessions across state lines and leave CommieFornia to self-destruct, and it most certainly will.

  11. #11
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravedigger View Post
    My guess is that OCers will be stopped, their firearms will be confiscated, and the cops will "do you a favor" by not arresting you, and the anti's will cheer them on because "dangerous handguns" are being removed from the streets. Don't put it past CommieFornia for one second, to ignore law and just do as they please.

    If you really want to open carry, open carry your personal possessions across state lines and leave CommieFornia to self-destruct, and it most certainly will.
    Your guess would be wrong, because that didnt happen when this movement broke ground about 6 years ago and isnt likely to change even with the passage of more restrictions on transport. Such seizures would quickly get authorities caught up in defending against 4th amendment complaints.

    The suggestion that we should pursue liberty elsewhere is repugnant to natives - The Constitution and the Bill of Rights applies here as much as it does in any of the other 49 states of the union. The fight for freedom is here, today... not in a history book chronicling the sacrifices of colonial revolutionaries. To suppose that there should be no fight and that we should retreat to freer states is to suggest that liberty has no value, that compromise is more palletable than restoring your inalienable rights because the effort required is just too great to bear. Imagine our founders taking such a position- there would be no United States as we know it. Thanks for your advice, but I will be staying.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  12. #12
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    I think the heavy lifting has been done, though the first to employ the exemptions has a rather delicate task being the guinea pig for all the others.

    Otherwise, I believe it will be business as usual for handgun open carry. No need for long guns yet.
    What does need have to do with the exercise of a fundamental right?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    What does need have to do with the exercise of a fundamental right?
    Let me ask you something. When was the last time you openly carried an AR or AK pattern long gun into a Starbucks in Newport News, Virginia? I am guessing without looking at your post history that you have never carried a long gun in an urban setting. You might not have a 'need' to, but you have better justification by Article I Section 13 of the Commonwealth of Virginia's Constitution... But you have made a conscious descision not to carry a long gun into a Starbucks to socialize with other gun owners.

    Why not? You are promoting an activity in a state that has no state level right to keep and bear arms from the safety of your armchair 3,000 miles away in a state that does, that you, yourself do not practice. It isnt a question of need, but appropriateness. Right now, in California, it is not appropriate to shoulder a rifle when we have less conspicuous and more common defensive arms available for us to use to prove our position.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    It isnt a question of need, but appropriateness. Right now, in California, it is not appropriate to shoulder a rifle when we have less conspicuous and more common defensive arms available for us to use to prove our position.
    It would be appropriate if you were always a rifleman.

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    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    It would be appropriate if you were always a rifleman.
    Let me put it another way... When you are promoting an unpopular political view in your opposition's comfort zone, it's important to not be distracted by the temptation to skip to the most offensive slogan in your repertoire.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  16. #16
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConditionThree View Post
    Let me put it another way... When you are promoting an unpopular political view in your opposition's comfort zone, it's important to not be distracted by the temptation to skip to the most offensive slogan in your repertoire.
    Bah!.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gravedigger View Post
    If you really want to open carry, open carry your personal possessions across state lines and leave CommieFornia to self-destruct, and it most certainly will.
    I agree with you that California is fundamentally lost...there is simply no way to go against the rising demographic and political tide there.

    I am no longer emotionally attached to the current geographical configuration of the "United" States - I would not shed a tear if the nation broke apart along the already-existing cultural fault lines. California, most of the Northeast, and some parts of the statist South and Midwest should pursue their destiny apart from those of us in free territory. I see this outcome as infinitely preferable to the status quo, in which liberals and other undesirables from these areas carpetbag to our states, fleeing high taxes, high crime, and limited freedom, only to vote for the same failed policies they implemented at home!

    No offense intended to the few good people that still remain in those benighted areas; you will be among the first allowed to apply to immigrate to the Free West!
    Last edited by ManInBlack; 12-30-2011 at 02:58 AM.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    I agree with you that California is fundamentally lost...there is simply no way to go against the rising demographic and political tide there.

    I am no longer emotionally attached to the current geographical configuration of the "United" States - I would not shed a tear if the nation broke apart along the already-existing cultural fault lines. California, most of the Northeast, and some parts of the statist South and Midwest should pursue their destiny apart from those of us in free territory. I see this outcome as infinitely preferable to the status quo, in which liberals and other undesirables from these areas carpetbag to our states, fleeing high taxes, high crime, and limited freedom, only to vote for the same failed policies they implemented at home!

    No offense intended to the few good people that still remain in those benighted areas; you will be among the first allowed to apply to immigrate to the Free West!
    We're not supposed to be offended by that? For those of you who think that you can hide, run, migrate, or otherwise relocate away from this battle; I might remind you of the civil war. The states that lost specifically. That was the "free south". When the fighting was all over, all the holdouts who thought they could entrench themselves in culturally desirable enclaves were overrun by carpetbaggers. They lost it all.
    I will go a little farther and say that most of the people that offer advice such as yours are more often than not the same ones that never fought anywhere for anything.

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    SoS,

    just ignore the out of state a-holes that make these types of comments. You and I and the other true 2A Advocates here know better then anyone how the fight for our STATE.

    I agree with you in that he would not know how to, and has most likely never had to fight for his civil rights.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Our State View Post
    We're not supposed to be offended by that? For those of you who think that you can hide, run, migrate, or otherwise relocate away from this battle; I might remind you of the civil war. The states that lost specifically. That was the "free south". When the fighting was all over, all the holdouts who thought they could entrench themselves in culturally desirable enclaves were overrun by carpetbaggers. They lost it all.
    I will go a little farther and say that most of the people that offer advice such as yours are more often than not the same ones that never fought anywhere for anything.
    You can keep fighting in California as much as you like. I was simply stating my belief that over the long run, the demographic and political tide will go against you. Some of us are at the point at which we wish we could wash our hands of California, as it does not seem to export anything positive, politically-speaking. The peaceful migration from the PRC is doing more damage to free states than an armed invasion, such as what you allude to after the civil war, ever could. If we were separate nations, that problem could be abated.

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    My thoughts on 2012 and beyond California laws:

    1. In California, open carry of a large knife (or even sword) might be better for many close range self-defense situations anyway as it is faster to deploy... especially compared to unloaded guns carried in locked cases.



    2. Firearms with barrels over 16 inches are not legally capable of being concealed. Smaller examples can be carried in a holster like a typical handgun, therefore not attracting as much attention if carried openly, and can even be concealed. A pistol grip shotgun in a belt scabbard is like a giant holstered handgun that is quick to load and fires several projectiles with a single trigger pull.
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2883584/ShotgunUOC.MPG <--- I posted this video here a while ago showing a clumsy draw.



    <-- This rifle needs a .5 inch stock extension (sold by Kel-Tec) and a bullet button or grip fin to be legal in California . It folds down to about 16.1" x 7"
    <-- 18 inch barreled handgun.

    There is also the feather .22 caliber rifle that only weighs 2.5 lbs and is just about 26 inches long with the stock off or folded. (Although I can't get mine to work... I bought one used and broken.)

    <-- Exempt from assault weapons rules because it is a .22lr.

    3. If one was not concerned at all about attracting attention or bearing a heavy load and just wanted to open carry a long gun on a sling, that would be an option as well. Optionally, you could throw a bayonet on the end of an openly carried rifle to make it more effective before you have time to load it.

    The M1-Garand and Short-Magazine-Lee Enfield seem like nice rifles for the ability to quickly put into action. I'm sure there are multitudes of other firearms that would be relatively quick also. Personally however, it seems that big long guns are too heavy, and get in the way too much to be carried on the person regularly, but they'd probably be good "in-the-vehicle" firearms.

    In my opinion, a rifle carried slung upside down on the weak shoulder (a.k.a. African Carry) is much faster to bring to action then a rifle carried slung right side up. As a bonus, carrying this way is unlikely to hang up on doorways.

    4. Exemptions... one might consider translucent locked case open carry of handguns. [Perhaps an all enclosing, locking, Plexiglas belt holster?] That seems to be the least obtrusive exception, followed with the "entertainment rehearsal" and "charitable organization" exceptions.

    5. If I lived in California, I'd consider making my residence in a county where they give out permits more easily, even if I spent a lot of time working or otherwise being in a different county. That way you could do loaded concealed carry and loaded open carry, which is far better than unloaded open carry.

    6. Probably in the next three years, California will try and make the restrictions on guns even harsher. They may target long gun carry, make exemptions for handguns harder to come by, and who knows what else.

    7. H.R. 822, if it passes the U.S. Senate, would allow people like me who live in Nevada to carry concealed handguns in L.A. and San Francisco. Hopefully, California will respond by making it possible for all people in California to obtain permits. Or California legislators will throw a hissy fit and end all permitting for civilians.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 12-30-2011 at 03:10 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    My thoughts on 2012 and beyond California laws:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2883584/ShotgunUOC.MPG <--- I posted this video here a while ago showing a clumsy draw.

    .
    For some reason, I thought I remembered that the shotgun with a pistol grip was not allowable in CA anymore

  23. #23
    Regular Member Save Our State's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    Agreed. I left CA for greener pastures (and more freedom) this year.

    I applaud those who are staying and fighting but you have lost and you will continue to lose.

    California, and the nation, have allowed the demographics of CA to change to such a degree that it cant be reversed (short of a war)

    That means that its a lost cause. LOST.

    I left because no one lives forever and I want to live the rest of my life in freedom and I want my kids to live in freedom. And safety and beauty, with money.

    If it ever comes to a situation where we Americans can truely FIGHT to restore rights and freedom and liberty then I will help out of California.

    Until that time I will enjoy my new home with the most gun freedoms in America, no sales tax and world class fishing right outside my door.
    Never ceases to amaze me how those who have run, are so quick to recruit others to do the same. Is it because they will never feel good about it until the majority or at least a larger crowd reinforce their position or decision to do so?

    I left because no one lives forever and I want to live the rest of my life in freedom and I want my kids to live in freedom.
    You live in exile. That's a substitute or a placebo for real freedom

    If it ever comes to a situation where we Americans can truely FIGHT to restore rights and freedom and liberty then I will help out of California
    Oh please! Fool yourself all you like, but You are not fooling me. We've already read what your made of. There's no way in hell I'd expect your help. And I certainly wouldn't try and sell that to any of the rest of us should that time come
    Last edited by Save Our State; 12-31-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  24. #24
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    For those that stay and fight for freedom, I say thank you

    for those that fought and had to leave because of family or work, and continue to fight for freedom, again thank you

    for those that are to tired or chicken to stay and fight, thanks for nothing, don't let the door hit ya the good lord split ya

    Ca Patriot ha ha don't think so. you need to change that log in to a new one. like try

    Ca Traitor

    You never fought to help us, all you have done is complain about how bad it is. Well guess what the true Patriots are still here and we will win our freedom.

    Carry On my brothers and sisters, AB144 might be a little step back, but it did not stop OC of handguns. Read the full law, know the law, know all the exemptions that they put into it. Work within the system as we fight for change.

  25. #25
    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Patriot View Post
    If you were a true patriot you would be at the southern border with your rifle and handgun preventing illegals from coming into America.

    They are the biggest reason California sucks.

    I spent many many days and weeks down there with citizen patrol groups. I have hundreds of videos of me being an American patriot and California patriot by guarding against foreign invaders.

    How much time have any of YOU guys spent down there being shot at by cartel members and harrassed and threatened by American border patrol agents ?
    What's your radio call sign when you are down there? Perhaps we've met. PM me if you prefer.

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