Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Felons With CHP's

  1. #1
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Asheboro, NC
    Posts
    315

    Question Felons With CHP's

    More than 2,400 permit holders were convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, excluding traffic-related crimes, over the five-year period, The Times found when it compared databases of recent criminal court cases and licensees. While the figure represents a small percentage of those with permits, more than 200 were convicted of felonies, including at least 10 who committed murder or manslaughter. All but two of the killers used a gun. [...]
    Interesting article on Think Progress

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-their-permit/

    Thoughts?
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Of those 2,400 (regardless of their crime), how many have since had their CHP revoked or suspended?

    And of those who have had their permits revoked/suspended, how many have since been convicted of carrying on a revoked/suspended permit?

    Can you guess where this is going? Take your time and think carefully before you answer.

    No, I'm not even going to get into the question of how many if the 2,400 CHPs were issued to folks who were categorically ineligible at the time they applied.

    But I will ask how the percentage of folks convicted of carrying with a revoked/suspended CHP compares with the number of folks convicted of driving with a revoked/suspended driver's license. Or even just the number of folks who have been convicted of killing someone when driving on a revoked/suspended driver's license.

    Maybe if the NYT got their panties unwadded long enough to think about -- Oops! I see where I'm making my mistake. Sorry. Never mind.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,217
    It happens, it's rare. Put into context against LEOs with problems and 'accidents' it's a small number, IIRC. But nice link/food for thought.

    Also, put up against the good shoot/proper use of a firearm to save an innocent it's also a tiny fraction. I don't have cites, because we've all seen those numbers...

    $.02
    A gun in a holster is better than one drawn and dispensing bullets. Concealed forces the latter. - ixtow

    Hi, I'm hypercritical. But I mean no harm, I just like to try to look deeply at life

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville NC
    Posts
    751
    Go to grnc.org website to read the background for the article which is a second attempt at this crap from the author.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? According to the story, "more than 240,000." So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault.

    By comparison, about 0.35 percent of all Americans are convicted of a felony each year--more than 20 times the rate among North Carolina permit holders. It seems clear these people are far more law-abiding than the general population, a finding consistent with data from other states.

    http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/27/sc...rmit-holders-s
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,620
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? According to the story, "more than 240,000." So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault.

    By comparison, about 0.35 percent of all Americans are convicted of a felony each year--more than 20 times the rate among North Carolina permit holders. It seems clear these people are far more law-abiding than the general population, a finding consistent with data from other states.

    http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/27/sc...rmit-holders-s
    They should be issued good citizen awards - they are being responsible.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    rural religious usa
    Posts
    670

    one, two, three,....4 million, 4 million and fourteen...darn lost count...one, two..

    "Figures often beguile me," Mark Twain wrote, "particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"

    Mark Twain's "Chapters from My Autobiography", published in the North American Review in 1906.

    wabbit
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-28-2011 at 11:53 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    381

  10. #10
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    862
    The whole NYT article is a junk hit piece akin to scooping up a pile of dog crap and tossing it into the wind with he intention of letting it land on as many people as it can.

    It's an amalgamation of twisted numbers rearranged to fit the headline, which is very deceptive on top of it all. The numbers game used is nothing more than a mere 3rd grade magic trick. Here, I can do it too:

    1. Of the over 500,000 fatal automobile accidents in the US, over 4/5ths of the drivers were holding the wheel with their left hand. Conclusion: Left handed drivers hate cars and therefore crash them, causing death in many cases.

    2. Of 100 people surveyed, 97 of them pick their ass with their right hand. Conclusion: 97% of right handed people pick their ass.

    3. Blueberries picked very early in the season are green. Of the total number of blueberries picked early, 98% were green. Conclusion: blueberries are green.

    4. I smoked a cigarette today and didn't die. Conclusion: cigarettes do not contribute to deaths.

    It goes on and on.

    This article is nothing but a mob hit designed to whip up a frenzy in the forefront of the current legislation moving through the US Congress that deals with nation-wide reciprocity. The implication is that if the legislation is passed, your state will have to not only deal with these criminals from NC coming to visit (which will surely happen), but your own state will have many just like them already lurking about in your midst.

    Junk journalism isn't new, but at least people used to kinda sorta hide it...somewhat. This guy threw all sense of personal integrity into the void and went full-out stupid with this piece.
    Last edited by rotorhead; 12-28-2011 at 04:50 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    Interesting article on Think Progress

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...-their-permit/

    Thoughts?
    The entire story is based on BS.

    First, what is felony?

    A felony can be many things, from passing bad checks interstate, or insider trading or.......you name it.

    There are hundreds of non violent felonies and it makes no sense to take a person's CCW for a non violent crime, possibly even for something that the person convicted had no idea was a crime.

    So if the writer had any ethics or credibility, he would have sorted the felonies into violent and non violent.

    I suspect doing so would have reduced the number from 2,400 to maybe four or five hundred violent felonies.

    That is just the beginning. There were many many other errors and stretches of truthfulness in the story.

    Not worth any further attention.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Greenville
    Posts
    58

    It was 2400 felonies AND misdemeanors...

    Just providing the number of felonies would have made it a non-story, which it should have been, but this is the type of dishonest "opinion-driven" opposition we're up against.

    You decide your position and then start working on twisting everything you can to support it. This is why the media and politicians get along so well - they understand each other.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by old curmudgeon View Post
    The entire story is based on BS.

    First, what is felony?

    A felony can be many things, from passing bad checks interstate, or insider trading or.......you name it.

    There are hundreds of non violent felonies and it makes no sense to take a person's CCW for a non violent crime, possibly even for something that the person convicted had no idea was a crime..
    Well said!
    Not long ago in this country, a felony crime was reserved for only the most serious offenses.
    Today, in some states the smallest infraction can be turned into a felony.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by old curmudgeon View Post
    The entire story is based on BS.

    First, what is felony?

    A felony can be many things, from passing bad checks interstate, or insider trading or.......you name it.

    For instance, in Maryland, bringing more than 2 packs (that's PACKS, not cartons) of cigarettes into the state without MD tax stamps on them is a FELONY.

    But carrying a handgun concealed without a permit is a misdemeanor...

    The "felonization" of everyday activities is a disturbing trend in jurisprudence and legislation in the US, and needs to be SERIOUSLY examined, questioned, and to be honest, stopped and reversed. If you really know the law, it is nearly impossible to get out of bed without breaking SOME law, even for the most law-abiding person in the US these days...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  15. #15
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    For instance, in Maryland, bringing more than 2 packs (that's PACKS, not cartons) of cigarettes into the state without MD tax stamps on them is a FELONY.
    \.
    WTF!?

    Let me understand this correctly.
    If you enter MD with two or more packs of cigarettes without a MD tax stamp but a tax stamp from a different state is illegal?

    Or is it just having a pack of smokes with no tax stamp at all?
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville NC
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    WTF!?

    Let me understand this correctly.
    If you enter MD with two or more packs of cigarettes without a MD tax stamp but a tax stamp from a different state is illegal?

    Or is it just having a pack of smokes with no tax stamp at all?
    http://compnet.comp.state.md.us/moto...x_information/

    To save time: MD residents can import 2 packs of non-MD taxed cigarettes; travelers passing through can carry 1 carton. The misdemeanor charge carries a per carton penalty of $50 fine and 1 yr in jail.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    926
    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    http://compnet.comp.state.md.us/moto...x_information/

    To save time: MD residents can import 2 packs of non-MD taxed cigarettes; travelers passing through can carry 1 carton. The misdemeanor charge carries a per carton penalty of $50 fine and 1 yr in jail.
    Christ sakes, Maryland legislators are so stupid.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    The whole NYT article is a junk hit piece akin to scooping up a pile of dog crap and tossing it into the wind with he intention of letting it land on as many people as it can.

    It's an amalgamation of twisted numbers rearranged to fit the headline, which is very deceptive on top of it all. The numbers game used is nothing more than a mere 3rd grade magic trick. Here, I can do it too:

    1. Of the over 500,000 fatal automobile accidents in the US, over 4/5ths of the drivers were holding the wheel with their left hand. Conclusion: Left handed drivers hate cars and therefore crash them, causing death in many cases.

    And to bring it back to the original aricle, how many of those 2400 people had drivers licenses? How many of them were "Christian"? How many of them ate regularly at McDonalds? How many of them were on prescription psychotropics? How many of them attended public school? How many of them had read "Catcher in the Rye"?

    Correlation does not prove causation.

    Not only is this article bad journalism, it is fundamentally based on faulty logic. The editors of the NYT should be ashamed.

    And they should be PUBLICLY outed as the idiotic, anti-intellectual buffoons that they are, for assuming that the American public is so stupid that we will fall for their tricks...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-31-2011 at 10:52 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  19. #19
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Asheboro, NC
    Posts
    315
    The story says Felony's and misdemeanor , There are very few misdemeanor that disqualify a person from carrying a firearm. So in reality its less than 0.2%.

    I still see CHP process as a giant infrigment on the 2A, I will never understand why I need to take a class, pay hundreds of dollars, get finger printed, pass another BG check and ask the sheriff "mother may I?" to carry a gun with a jacket over it while I can carry it right out in the open.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  20. #20
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    862
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    And to bring it back to the original aricle, how many of those 2400 people had drivers licenses? How many of them were "Christian"? How many of them ate regularly at McDonalds? How many of them were on prescription psychotropics? How many of them attended public school? How many of them had read "Catcher in the Rye"?

    Correlation does not prove causation.

    Not only is this article bad journalism, it is fundamentally based on faulty logic. The editors of the NYT should be ashamed.

    And they should be PUBLICLY outed as the idiotic, anti-intellectual buffoons that they are, for assuming that the American public is so stupid that we will fall for their tricks...
    The problem with all of that is that a significant portion of the American public is that stupid...

    It's one reason that explains just how people like the author of the NYT article is able to continue to remain employed in the media. Sadly, many still live under the theory that, if it's in the news, it must be true.

  21. #21
    Regular Member ArmySoldier22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    406
    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    The problem with all of that is that a significant portion of the American public is that stupid...

    It's one reason that explains just how people like the author of the NYT article is able to continue to remain employed in the media. Sadly, many still live under the theory that, if it's in the news, it must be true.
    Sadly, that's so true. An Individual can be smart and make good choices. People are dumb and do what they're told and want all the major decisions to be made for them. The larger the group, the easier to manipulate.


    David

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •