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Thread: "Obama nationalizes National Guard; Governors retain command?"

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    "Obama nationalizes National Guard; Governors retain command?"

    Anyone else here notice that various non-OCDO postings seem to indicate things are sort of rising to a head? Did Obama really do this beneath our noses? I've read various reports of Obama trying to mobilize state reserves/guard with upwards of 12 governors saying "hell no." Like this.

    Is this really true?


    Obama fearing a revolution against him by the states, has moved swiftly by nationalizing nearly all National Guard Forces in multiple states; Georgia, Alabama, Kansas, Minnesota, Tennessee, Virginia, Louisiana, South Carolina – to name a few. The Governors of the Great States of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia still have under their Command-and-Control the State Defense Forces to go against U.S. Federal forces should the need arise.


    I enjoy standing up for my country, her Constitution, and the values in which we all place our faith. I don't enjoy wasting my time on unsupported conspiracy crap. Problem is, I can't find any substantiating evidence.

    So I ask you, folks - did Obama really do this? Was this the governors' response?
    Our rights are not subject to "interpretation" by well-meaning but Constitutionally illiterate politicians. They are absolute and unwavering, as are We the People. Some rights are specifically mentioned; many are not. ALL are protected by our Constitution, especially the Ninth and Tenth Amendments

    "One of the best things about our Republic is that we're as free to have our own opinions as we are from having the opinions of others forced upon us."

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Really?

    "After the 1986 reorganization of the military undertaken by the Goldwater-Nichols Act, the Joint Chiefs of Staff does not have operational command of U.S. military forces." - Source.

    Crap.
    Our rights are not subject to "interpretation" by well-meaning but Constitutionally illiterate politicians. They are absolute and unwavering, as are We the People. Some rights are specifically mentioned; many are not. ALL are protected by our Constitution, especially the Ninth and Tenth Amendments

    "One of the best things about our Republic is that we're as free to have our own opinions as we are from having the opinions of others forced upon us."

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The Virginia Defense Force http://www.vdf.virginia.gov/ has a targeted level of 1,200 members. And they are unarmed - as in they have no unit weapons and are not allowed to bring privately-owned weapons to play with.

    So I seriously doubt if "The Governors of the Great States of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia still have under their Command-and-Control the State Defense Forces to go against U.S. Federal forces should the need arise" has any basis in reality, let alone workability.

    IF the National Guard were federalized the members would be called to report to their armories for further assignment. When Virginia NG companies have been federalized for service in Iraq/Afghanistan there have been critical shortages in the local police, sheriff, fire departments and rescue squads as well as at several of the state prison facilities. Imagine if whole battalions, brigades or divisions were called to federal service - most of the law enforcement/public service infrastructure would collapse for lack of manpower.

    Not only does Posse Commitatus still (for the most part) prevent the use of federal military forces for local law enforcement activity, but there are too many loose lips in the NG and the political arena to keep something like what the OP is trying to suggest a secret - folks would be fighting for space in front of the TV cameras to get their 2-cents worth in.

    To add icing to the cake and close out my comments - the Great States of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia are not the ones that are most likely to start or lead the new revolution.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The Virginia Defense Force http://www.vdf.virginia.gov/ has a targeted level of 1,200 members. And they are unarmed - as in they have no unit weapons and are not allowed to bring privately-owned weapons to play with.

    So I seriously doubt if "The Governors of the Great States of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia still have under their Command-and-Control the State Defense Forces to go against U.S. Federal forces should the need arise" has any basis in reality, let alone workability.
    I can't speak to the other 'Great' states, but the Decent State of Alabama's SDF is also unarmed and capped at around 1000 persons.
    Last edited by Brimstone Baritone; 12-28-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    The Georgia State Defense Force, is also as defenseless as a baby with candy.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    The Virginia Defense Force http://www.vdf.virginia.gov/...
    By "militia," I'm speaking of the term in the normative used by our Founding Fathers - every man, woman, and child capable of carrying and using a firearm. To wit:


    "Such a reading fails to note that the Framers used the term "militia" to relate to every citizen capable of bearing arms, and that the Congress has established the present National Guard under its own power to raise armies, expressly stating that it was not doing so under its power to organize and arm the militia." - page 3, The Right to Keep and Bear Arms REPORT of the SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES SENATE NINETY-SEVENTH CONGRESS Second Session February 1982 U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, WASHINGTON: 1982 88-618 0 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U. S. Government Printing Office Washington, D.C. 20402


    If the National Guard were federalized the members would be called to report to their armories for further assignment.
    The National Guard is lead by officers. Unfortunately, while their oath includes our Constitution, it also includes something absent from the oath required of military officers: "that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of the State."

    There's a very clear and distinct reason as to why it's absent in the oaths for military officers.

    ...like what the OP is trying to suggest...
    Please re-read my OP. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm inquiring as to the validity of the claim made by the linked article.
    Our rights are not subject to "interpretation" by well-meaning but Constitutionally illiterate politicians. They are absolute and unwavering, as are We the People. Some rights are specifically mentioned; many are not. ALL are protected by our Constitution, especially the Ninth and Tenth Amendments

    "One of the best things about our Republic is that we're as free to have our own opinions as we are from having the opinions of others forced upon us."

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    OK, but remember you asked for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    By "militia," I'm speaking of the term in the normative used by our Founding Fathers - every man, woman, and child capable of carrying and using a firearm. To wit: ....
    There is only one way THEY can federalize me - and that's to put me in a federal prison. The militia you are discussing is called up by the locality, not by the federal or even the state government. It may, after being called up - or more appropriately "called out" - decide to subordinate itself to the state or federal government. The Revolutionary War is full of instances when "the militia" did not subordinate itself to anybody.


    [quote]The National Guard is lead by officers. Unfortunately, while their oath includes our Constitution, it also includes something absent from the oath required of military officers: "that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of the State."[quote]

    Do you have a cite for that? And would you mind explaining why/how you differentiate between NG officers and "military" officers. And I swear that if you bring up the gold fringe on the flag I'll beat you with that fringe!

    Also, why would "military" officers swear to obey the orders of the Gov if they are not subordinate to that office, seeing as how they are "military" officers and not NG?


    There's a very clear and distinct reason as to why it's absent in the oaths for military officers.
    Do you have a cite for that? And would you mind explaining why/how you differentiate between NG officers and "military" officers. And I swear that if you bring up the gold fringe on the flag I'll beat you with that fringe! And don't you have that backwards - above you say that NG officers do not swear to obey the orders of the Prez and the Gov.

    Please re-read my OP. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm inquiring as to the validity of the claim made by the linked article.
    Maybe I did not make it plain enough. The chances of there being any validity to the assertions are about the same as you being found to be pregnant - it's within the realm of possibility but not within the realm of probability.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    [snip]

    Obama fearing a revolution against him by the states, has moved swiftly by nationalizing nearly all National Guard Forces in multiple states; Georgia, Alabama, Kansas, Minnesota, Tennessee, Virginia, Louisiana, South Carolina – to name a few. The Governors of the Great States of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia still have under their Command-and-Control the State Defense Forces to go against U.S. Federal forces should the need arise.


    [snip]

    And President Obama would be within his Constitutional Authority to do so. The National Guard is Federal! Let me guess, the National Guard is actually a States Guard?

    He can take any steps necessary to keep the UNION intact.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    And President Obama would be within his Constitutional Authority to do so. The National Guard is Federal! Let me guess, the National Guard is actually a States Guard?

    He can take any steps necessary to keep the UNION intact.

    Do you have a cite for the assertion that the NG "is federal"?

    Or for your assertion that the Prez "would be within his Constitutional Authority to do so" [nationalize the NG but leave it under the command of state Governors]?

    I think I'll agree with your last statement, but only if you show me RAS that there is a concerted effort to tear the Union apart. Until you get there, I'm saying the notion is patently unconstitutional.

    I was under the impression that we had learned that "My country, far right or wrong" was just not a viable notion. And to suggest that notion underlying the actions of a socialist is confusing as all getout.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Do you have a cite for the assertion that the NG "is federal"?

    Or for your assertion that the Prez "would be within his Constitutional Authority to do so" [nationalize the NG but leave it under the command of state Governors]?

    I think I'll agree with your last statement, but only if you show me RAS that there is a concerted effort to tear the Union apart. Until you get there, I'm saying the notion is patently unconstitutional.

    I was under the impression that we had learned that "My country, far right or wrong" was just not a viable notion. And to suggest that notion underlying the actions of a socialist is confusing as all getout.

    stay safe.

    We are federally funded for drills, manuvers, schools, maintenace and mobilizations. I don't have a cite, but it's pretty widely known. As far as putting us all on Title 10 Orders and giving authority to the govenors that sounds silly. If a national mobilization occurs the govenors can't even stop it as far as I know, but the command falls under the pentagon. Plus there's probably plenty of govenors who probably want to use the guard against obozo.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    He can take any steps necessary to keep the UNION intact.
    Of course he's doing his best too divide and balkanize it.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post

    We are federally funded for drills, manuvers, schools, maintenace and mobilizations. I don't have a cite, but it's pretty widely known. As far as putting us all on Title 10 Orders and giving authority to the govenors that sounds silly. If a national mobilization occurs the govenors can't even stop it as far as I know, but the command falls under the pentagon. Plus there's probably plenty of govenors who probably want to use the guard against obozo.
    Well, yes, they are federally funded because that's what Congress wanted to do in order to assure a reserve Reserve force (if you follow my meaning). Go read the Dick Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903 some time and you will have a better understanding of not only why there is a National Guard but why it is a state/federal bastard stepchild.

    If the Guard goes under Title 10 orders the governors have had command-and-control divested. And while there is no way a governor can completely stop a federalization order, several of them were sucessful during Desert Storm I & II in reducing the call-up based on the potential loss of public safety personnel.

    Governors do not settle differences of politics between temselves or with the Prez by calling up the NG and trying to throw their weight around. They mobilize their politicians, which the Prez cannot suddenly federalize and take away from them.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, yes, they are federally funded because that's what Congress wanted to do in order to assure a reserve Reserve force (if you follow my meaning).[snip] .
    I see, so they are a federally funded corp, but are not Federal - that makes sense.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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