• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

If "guns don't kill people, people kill people" do "guns save lives"?

Reverend73

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
549
Location
Gainesville, VA
If "guns don't kill people, people kill people" do "guns save lives"?

A recent VCDL email brought up that guns don't kill people, people kill people. If this is the case (and I agree with the statement), how can we proudly wear bright orange buttons proclaiming that "Guns Save Lives". The gun, by itself saves no one. It is the armed (and I'd argue, trained) individual that saves lives. Are we no better than the libtards who blame the gun for killing so many, while we "blame" the gun for saving lives?

We need a more correct slogan, such as "Armed individuals save lives" or "Bearing is Caring" (the girlfriend came up with that one).

Thoughts?
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
Because a gun alone cannot actively commit a crime, but the presence of one can functionally deter an assailant, even without being drawn.

Therefor the mere presence of a gun does not in-and-of itself affect a criminal act, but it has the potential to prevent one.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
Well it's an "in your face" sort of thing. In other words, the "Guns Saves Lives" slogan is the counter to the other side's "Guns kill" claim. Granted, guns certainly can kill, but the distinction is two-fold, as you inferred. Depending upon in whose had the gun his held will describe the outcome if the gun is used. A wonton murder or an excusable use of deadly force.
 

Reverend73

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
549
Location
Gainesville, VA
Because a gun alone cannot actively commit a crime, but the presence of one can functionally deter an assailant, even without being drawn.

Therefor the mere presence of a gun does not in-and-of itself affect a criminal act, but it has the potential to prevent one.

Good point, but what if it's concealed? bad guys don't see it?

Also, I'd still argue just a gun sitting on a counter or laying on the floor(ie the mere presence of a gun) isn't going to prevent any crime. Now if it is somehow attached to a trained individual, yes, it may prevent crime therefore I'll still argue it is the armed individual that prevents crime or saves lives. It is not merely the gun. We need a new slogan.
 
Last edited:

Lincoln7

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
143
Location
Isle of Wight County, Virginia
Because a gun alone cannot actively commit a crime, but the presence of one can functionally deter an assailant, even without being drawn.

Therefor the mere presence of a gun does not in-and-of itself affect a criminal act, but it has the potential to prevent one.

I think this is the best argument for the statement. I really got stumped when I read the OP's question but looks like we found an answer. Nice response, Wylde.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Well it's an "in your face" sort of thing. In other words, the "Guns Saves Lives" slogan is the counter to the other side's "Guns kill" claim.

This ^^ .

You have less than 1/2 second to get your statement out, and it needs to be short, sweet, and something that folks can remember.

I like "Bearing is Caring" - shorter and sweeter than the 2nd Amendment Sisters' "Of Course I carry - Don't You?" I'd add a gun graphic (revolver or pistol, I'm not prejudiced) just so folks do not think I'm saying anything about having kids.:lol:

stay safe.
 

Reverend73

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
549
Location
Gainesville, VA
It is the gun in the hands of someone who is determined not to become a victim.

Exactly. It all boils down to the individual. Same as it is with another Cho who wants to murder a number of people and has a gun in his hands.

I just find it very hypocritical to say guns don't kill people, people kill people and then turn right around and say guns save lives.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Well it's an "in your face" sort of thing. In other words, the "Guns Saves Lives" slogan is the counter to the other side's "Guns kill" claim. Granted, guns certainly can kill, but the distinction is two-fold, as you inferred. Depending upon in whose had the gun his held will describe the outcome if the gun is used. A wonton murder or an excusable use of deadly force.

This ^^ .

You have less than 1/2 second to get your statement out, and it needs to be short, sweet, and something that folks can remember.

I like "Bearing is Caring" - shorter and sweeter than the 2nd Amendment Sisters' "Of Course I carry - Don't You?" I'd add a gun graphic (revolver or pistol, I'm not prejudiced) just so folks do not think I'm saying anything about having kids.:lol:

stay safe.
I've never heard for sure what the origin is of "Guns Save Lives", but I agree here, that it's the mostly equivalent counter part to the anti-gun mantra. They ascribe a moral value to a gun which is evil, and wants to kill, so it's the other side of the logical coin, so to speak.

As noted, the thinking side of society realizes that guns are simply tools, inanimate objects which help us to perform certain tasks. Those tasks can either be legal, moral and good, or not. There are many ways a gun can help to perform these tasks... as noted, the mere observation of a gun will sometimes influence people, in both good and bad ways. That is why you can be convicted of brandishing without even touching a gun, and as Wylde noted, why the presence of a "good guy" can sometimes thwart a crime.

Logically speaking, I think we have to own up to the fact that "Guns Save Lives" is equally accurate to "Guns Kill People". They are nothing more than a tool, used in a variety of ways, to accomplish a certain task. But as Skidmark noted, it takes too long to say "People with Guns Save Lives", when you have but mere fractions of a second to make your point.

BTW, how about this: "I care. I carry." Or any of several variations... I carry because I care. I care, therefore I carry... etc... :)

TFred

ETA: Besides, if anyone ever calls any of us out on the seeming double standard, it's really easy and quick to say: "Of course you're right, "PEOPLE WITH Guns Save Lives..." but your attention span is too short to get all that as you walk by someone wearing a button!"
 
Last edited:

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Guns SAVE Lives is a public relations/marketing tool designed to promote awareness of the right to defend oneself - to make people think.

To that degree it is eminently successful. When it was coupled with the bright orange ball, it took on a life of its own. It has been quoted, shared untold numbers of times across the nation. It arguably is one the most highly recognized symbols/phrases of the RKBA community.

See no reason to tamper with success of this kind.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Guns SAVE Lives is a public relations/marketing tool designed to promote awareness of the right to defend oneself - to make people think.

To that degree it is eminently successful. When it was coupled with the bright orange ball, it took on a life of its own. It has been quoted, shared untold numbers of times across the nation. It arguably is one the most highly recognized symbols/phrases of the RKBA community.

See no reason to tamper with success of this kind.
I wasn't intending to or thinking that anyone else was intending to replace GSL... I agree, it's an excellent slogan!

It's probably not bad to have more than one slogan.

TFred
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
I wasn't intending to or thinking that anyone else was intending to replace GSL... I agree, it's an excellent slogan!

It's probably not bad to have more than one slogan.

TFred

Before we start trying to rethink Guns Save lives with a people Prose...remember that the anti's were strutting around with orange stickers that said "People Save People".

But if we just have to have a stand in....:monkey

abig-gun.jpg
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I wasn't intending to or thinking that anyone else was intending to replace GSL... I agree, it's an excellent slogan!

It's probably not bad to have more than one slogan.

TFred

Understand and agree.

Then there is the slogan/sticker the antis used at the recent VCDL rallys - No Guns on Campus........it points out the obvious deficiency/problem. :lol:
 
Top