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Thread: Gun fires from girl's purse in Wyoming Starbucks

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Gun fires from girl's purse in Wyoming Starbucks

    So, the gist of the article is that a girl under the age of 18 had a gun in her purse that resulted in a negligent discharge.

    http://usat.ly/tZtSbj

    A few conclusions I draw from the article.

    1. Don't give a gun to your kid/teen who can not even legally possess it.
    2. Don't give a gun to a kid/teen who has had no firearms training.
    3. If you're going to carry in a purse then use a purse specifically designed for carry.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    I just hope starbucks doesnt ban guns now in there stores!

    Dad is a moron in this story!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim12232 View Post
    I just hope starbucks doesnt ban guns now in there stores!

    Dad is a moron in this story!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsd View Post
    So, the gist of the article is that a girl under the age of 18 had a gun in her purse that resulted in a negligent discharge.

    http://usat.ly/tZtSbj

    A few conclusions I draw from the article.

    1. Don't give a gun to your kid/teen who can not even legally possess it.
    2. Don't give a gun to a kid/teen who has had no firearms training.
    3. If you're going to carry in a purse then use a purse specifically designed for carry.

    I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but in regards to #2, the story said she had "no formal firearms training." She may have had training at home. Apparently it wasn't sufficient in this case, but I am 100% opposed to mandatory formal training.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Oddly, and I'm spitballin' here, I don't think it will affect handguns at all, or in Starbucks.

    The reason I say 'oddly', is that a lot of (non gun fanciers) people don't consider a 'derringer' two-shot an actual firearm. I know that sounds silly, but I bet it won't be an issue.

    I hope not. It really goes to show us, and one thing I learned being here is that we must present an over all good image to the public, because it's all too easy for a 'headline' to undo all the good that law-abiding people do in the name of SD and protecting their families.
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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but in regards to #2, the story said she had "no formal firearms training." She may have had training at home. Apparently it wasn't sufficient in this case, but I am 100% opposed to mandatory formal training.
    Ah, thanks for catching that. I agree with you as well.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    The reason I say 'oddly', is that a lot of (non gun fanciers) people don't consider a 'derringer' two-shot an actual firearm. I know that sounds silly, but I bet it won't be an issue.
    Um really? Any evidence, cite, forum post, or even online article comment for that?

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    Regular Member HighFlyingA380's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Um really? Any evidence, cite, forum post, or even online article comment for that?
    I have to agree. If anything, most 'non-gun' people will definitely view that as a gun, even tho we know it's not a 'real' or at least practical firearm. Hell, I know several of those types in my old neighborhood that think air-soft guns are real guns and can't figure out why the sell them at Walmart and why you don't need to register it. I used to work at Sbux, so I kinda know the mentality of them. I have met and had lunch with CEO Howard Schultz. Now, we didn't discuss firearms, but he does seem like a really down-to-Earth guy.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    As the OP alludes to, we have the mythical event of gun (regardless of type or caliber) just suddenly deciding all on its own to go shoot itself without any human intervention.

    Although with many derringers not having trigger guards it is much easier to get purse detrius and the trigger in contact with each other.

    However, most of those derringers have a stiff and heavy trigger pull that only works when the hammer has been pulled back to the full-cock position.

    Which leads me to thinking that the most likely scenarion involved the placement of a boogerhook on the bangswitch while the derringer was inside the purse.

    But the icing on the cake is the implication that firearms training is somehow recorded by the police who can then retrieve that data when it becomes necessary to determine if one has has any training, be it formal, informal, or nonexistent. It's not just that the reportologist does not know how to construct a simple declaratve sentence - there is quite a bit of politics and prejudice within that statement.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Oddly, and I'm spitballin' here, I don't think it will affect handguns at all, or in Starbucks.

    The reason I say 'oddly', is that a lot of (non gun fanciers) people don't consider a 'derringer' two-shot an actual firearm. I know that sounds silly, but I bet it won't be an issue.

    I hope not. It really goes to show us, and one thing I learned being here is that we must present an over all good image to the public, because it's all too easy for a 'headline' to undo all the good that law-abiding people do in the name of SD and protecting their families.
    The Remington type deringers can be up to .357 or .45 Colt caliber. Even with their short barrels--although some are as much as 3", at close range, they can be very effective. Check Bond Arms. They make serious close range guns, plus .410 snake killers. But they don't magically fire themselves, as they are single action only. Would be curious to know what make the pistol was.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post

    The reason I say 'oddly', is that a lot of (non gun fanciers) people don't consider a 'derringer' two-shot an actual firearm. I know that sounds silly, but I bet it won't be an issue..
    Where do you get this stuff from?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    It really goes to show us, and one thing I learned being here is that we must present an over all good image to the public, because it's all too easy for a 'headline' to undo all the good that law-abiding people do in the name of SD and protecting their families.
    This young lady isn't part of the we as I see it.
    She and possibly her parents are irresponsible and she broke the law carrying underage.
    I not familiar with WY CC laws but I DON"T see CC'ing w/o a permit a violation of law, (could almost never find someone guilty of a CC violation if on a jury)
    Last edited by Marco; 12-30-2011 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Change do to don't.. what it should have read in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    I not familiar with WY CC laws but I do see CC'ing w/o a permit a violation of law, (could almost never find someone guilty of a CC violation if on a jury)
    Wyoming has constitutional carry for residents, which is why she was only charged with underage possession.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    Wyoming has constitutional carry for residents, which is why she was only charged with underage possession.
    Thanks, that's what I thought but wasn't sure and I didn't want to research it right now.

    When I worked PT in a GS I had a customer come in with a revolver that was cocked and in her purse, she drove across town like that.
    Her husband hadn't shown her how to properly use it.
    I got her to sign up for our basic firearms class, I had words with her husband.
    Last edited by Marco; 12-29-2011 at 12:21 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    This just shows extreme irresponsibility on the part of the parents. First of all, they should know the firearm laws and that by having their underage daughter carry the gun she would be in violation of a law or two. Second they probably didnt teach her nearly as much as she should have been when it comes to carrying a firearm.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    As the OP alludes to, we have the mythical event of gun (regardless of type or caliber) just suddenly deciding all on its own to go shoot itself without any human intervention.

    Although with many derringers not having trigger guards it is much easier to get purse detrius and the trigger in contact with each other.

    However, most of those derringers have a stiff and heavy trigger pull that only works when the hammer has been pulled back to the full-cock position.

    Which leads me to thinking that the most likely scenarion involved the placement of a boogerhook on the bangswitch while the derringer was inside the purse.

    But the icing on the cake is the implication that firearms training is somehow recorded by the police who can then retrieve that data when it becomes necessary to determine if one has has any training, be it formal, informal, or nonexistent. It's not just that the reportologist does not know how to construct a simple declaratve sentence - there is quite a bit of politics and prejudice within that statement.

    stay safe.

    I don't disagree, in fact concurr. However, my simply thought was she was playing with the pistola in her purse. Depending on the derringer, they have to be cocked and ready to fire.

    My wife's friend commented a month or so ago about how she tried to pull my CCW info and couldn't find me (in MO it is not public record) so she tried to tell me I wasn't legal to carry, since she couldn't confirm my training and permission from the State Troopers! Name:  faint.gif
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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Here's the story as I saw it:

    http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/...l_12-28-11.txt

    Her father gave it to her to carry.

    And then the police GAVE IT BACK TO HER FAMILY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    http://www.wyomingnews.com/articles/...l_12-28-11.txt

    Her father gave it to her to carry.

    And then the police GAVE IT BACK TO HER FAMILY!

    Well, um, yeah. The police cited her for the underage possession and released the property in question. So what? Do you think police should be able to seize a person's vehicle after a citation?

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    interesting to note..

    nobody from the great state of WY has commented whatsoever? could it be their mentality towards the severity of this is not quite as grand as those from the east feel it is?

    perhaps there is a different culture and mentality towards firearms in WY that easterners do not appreciate. I always appreciated that mentality while i was there...

    wabbit

    ps: why wouldn't they give the firearm back to owners?
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-29-2011 at 07:03 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    ---snip----
    why wouldn't they give the firearm back to owners?
    Let me count the ways...........

    First such is virtually unheard of this early in the sequence of things.

    The gun is evidence pertaining to a possible crime - reckless endangerment, providing a gun to an unsupervised minor, illegal discharge, etc. - not intending to say this is the case with WY law, but rather that which is often the case.

    Should the gun have been returned to the owners at some time - probably. There are still a lot of unanswered questions though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    perhaps the second paragraph escaped your read of my post...

    allow me to provide a reminder....

    quote: perhaps there is a different culture and mentality towards firearms in WY that easterners do not appreciate. unquote

    that provide appropriate clarification to my statement?

    the individual is being charged for underage carry...only.

    wabbit

    PS: the news article also does not specifically mention who the family is...e.g., largest landowner in the area; or wheel in the judical or LE arena; or any of those of privilage exercise in their daily lifes.

    PSS: still think it is comical the easterners are excited about this situation...lol
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 12-29-2011 at 08:26 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    allow me to provide a reminder....

    quote: perhaps there is a different culture and mentality towards firearms in WY that easterners do not appreciate. unquote

    that provide appropriate clarification to my statement?

    wabbit

    PS: the news article also does not specifically mention who the family is...e.g., largest landowner in the area; or wheel in the judical or LE arena; or any of those of privilage exercise in their daily lifes.

    PSS: still think it is comical the easterners are excited about this situation...lol

    This.

    The police conducted their investigation in a prompt and efficient manner, decided the appropriate charge, and released the property because it had no further evidentiary value. Seems well-handled to me.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    oh ya forgot that concept...

    nice thought m-i-blk...

    wabbit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Not so much being critical of the end result as much as being surprised at the immediacy of it. Wouldn't say that I was "excited" by the events either - more that the circumstances were interesting and different.

    Not everyone on this coast would consider themselves "easterners", particularly those of us in Virginia - some of whom were born and raised in more western environments. To imply a lack of understanding or appreciation for their cultural ideologies is hardly appropriate.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Let me count the ways...........

    First such is virtually unheard of this early in the sequence of things.

    The gun is evidence pertaining to a possible crime - reckless endangerment, providing a gun to an unsupervised minor, illegal discharge, etc. - not intending to say this is the case with WY law, but rather that which is often the case.

    Should the gun have been returned to the owners at some time - probably. There are still a lot of unanswered questions though.
    The pistol was the property of the parents, not the minor. The facts are clear, an appropriate charge (misdemeanor, probably class three against a juvenile) was filed and property was returned to the legal owner. In VA, she would have been charged with a more serious offense as it is not a constitutional carry state. The same would hold true in NH--neither of which state is exactly unfriendly to the 2nd Amendment, but neither of which is the true West where attitudes about gun rights are far more in line with liberty. It appears to me that this was an exercise of appropriate response by the police and the girl will undoubtedly be doing community service. And, hopefully, has learned a valuable lesson.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    All of my derirngers have about a 20-25 lb trigger pull, exactly as it should be because they have no trigger guard. I mean it is really hefty. How did it go off without her pulling the trigger, unless somebody was stupid and did a trigger job on it. Also, every derringer I have ever seen is single action only, which means (I'm sure you probably already know this) that the hammer has to be cocked before it will fire. "Stupid is as stupid does." Dad needs to keep her away from firearms until she grows a few more gray cells. Maybe dad needs to stay away as well.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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